NJ Governor McGreevey a devout Catholic, yet diplomatic {Barf Alert}

Press of Atlantic City ^ | 01.11.04 | Pete McAleer

[Coleus]

Why did you highlight the needle exchange. Is that against church doctrine?>>>

Yes, it promotes drug abuse and the demise of the human spirit and human dignity and gives the wrong impression to children who will think the govt. and Catholic Church condones drug abuse. Those who use drugs usually steal the money to foster their habit and drug needles will only make the problem worse. And, the church is almost sure that the state will force Catholic Hospitals, Shelters, etc. to be the sites for these exchanges. The bill has no provisions for drug rehab.

The underlying purpose of the change, however, is to permit needle exchange programs to take place for intravenous drug users. While the New Jersey Catholic Conference has larger concerns with this legislation, there is some immediate potential impact on public and nonpublic school children.

OUR POSITION: There are three major considerations for our opposition to this legislation with respect to children:

1. The decriminalization of the possession and sale of hypodermic syringes and needles (that is the removal of their definition from the term “drug paraphernalia”) opens the way for needle exchange programs for addicts in New Jersey. Such programs send a message of tolerance for intravenous drug use to children in both public and nonpublic schools.

2. The individuals who will be able to sell and purchase such syringes and needles will, in the future, be able to do so at established sites. These sites may be accessible through drug-free school zones. Will the next step be to provide lesser degrees of penalties for individuals who venture into these drug-free school zones as a result of their efforts to receive clean needles?

3. The New Jersey Catholic Conference has been involved extensively with treatment programs for individuals who have drug addictions. Although our goal would be to eliminate the need for these programs by eliminating the threats opposed by such afflictions such as HIV/AIDS, we believe that the government should mandate treatment programs if any needle exchange program is to be adopted. S-2794 will permit such needle exchange programs to take place without any mandatory treatment program.
http://www.njcathconf.com/LegActionAlerts/Social_Issues/S2794NeedleExchangeLtrhd%20Dec1.htm

[breakem]

Your equating things which may be bad or self indulgent with things that are serious sins and counter to major doctrine. It's your post, but it is not consistent. How about being affluent and using a state limo, isn't that contrary to a good catholic life?

[Coleus]

It's your post, but it is not consistent>>

I posted a newspaper article and the position of the NJ Catholic Conference (the media activist arm of the 5 dioceses in NJ). Here is the Catechism of the Catholic Church, you can read that and make your own decision. one of the tentacles of Satan reaching out to us is drug use where it's very insidious in nature and it ruins human lives, the lives in families and fosters people to commit other very grave sins contrary to moral law.

2291 The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law.

2211 The political community has a duty to honor the family, to assist it, and to ensure especially:

- the freedom to establish a family, have children, and bring them up in keeping with the family's own moral and religious convictions;

- the protection of the stability of the marriage bond and the institution of the family;

- the freedom to profess one's faith, to hand it on, and raise one's children in it, with the necessary means and institutions;

- the right to private property, to free enterprise, to obtain work and housing, and the right to emigrate;

- in keeping with the country's institutions, the right to medical care, assistance for the aged, and family benefits;

- the protection of security and health, especially with respect to dangers like drugs, pornography, alcoholism, etc.;

- the freedom to form associations with other families and so to have representation before civil authority.

[breakem]

You critized and juddged the guy for needle exchange. Some argue that this is better for public health and taxpayer pocket books. The jury is out either way. It is a public policy call and I do not see the church explicitly condemming needle exchange.

If you don't agree with something okay, but setting yourself up as the popes advisor is arrogant and in this case wrong.

[Coleus]

You critized and juddged the guy for needle exchange>>

What the heck are you talking about? It was part of the newspaper article. And the position of the RCC in NJ. Arrogant? Are you sure you aren't doing something with needles.

[BroncosFan]

Anyone who's foolish enough to believe McSkeevey should look into the events surrounding his divorce from his first wife. At the risk of sounding like Wesley Clark, it's common knowledge among Woodbridge insiders (he was mayor of that town prior to running for gov.) that he was carrying on an affair Jim Kolbe would be proud of. Once the wife found out, she basically dictated the terms of the divorce: she took her two kids back to her native British Colombia with no visitation rights OF ANY KIND being granted to Dandy Jim. In return, she keeps her mouth shut. The Schundler people knew about this, but were so chastised by the media pounding they were getting that they didn't know how to get it out there in a credible source. Now, Jimmy's got a new trophy wife and kid, watch the body language between them -- he's no more into her than I'm into Rosie O'Doughnuts.

[ZULU]

If James McGreevey is a Catholic, I'm a Martian. How about those homosexual rumors I keep reading about? How about murdering babies??

McGreevey is a typical leftist Democratic Charletan. Since he is from New Jersey, however, nobody notices, not even the Jersey Republicans, who are, for the most part, hardly any better.

[thenderson]

The rule is very simple . . .
Whatever McGreevey says is a lie!
NJ Governor James McGreevey
A Miserable Failure

[Criminal Number 18F]

I was sick and tired of the Catholic Church's stance

I bailed in the 1980s, when the Catholic clergy in El Salvador were arming and supporting Communist rebels, and teaching that Jesus Christ was the first Communist. "Liberation Theology" they called it.

It came to a head when the rebels killed a man I knew, and when "international opinion" condemned the El Sals' targeting of some of the Maryknolls who directly supported his murder. I was out of there.

Unfortunately I went to the Episcopalian church. Talk about bad judgment on my part! From a far-left church that promotes and defends closeted homosexuals, to a far-left church that celebrates open ones. Oh, brother.

Looking for a denomination, over here. I am A Man Without a Church.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

[Land of the Free 04]

2291 The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense.

Does that also apply to the drug alcohol?

[Land of the Free 04]

I bailed in the 1980s, when the Catholic clergy in El Salvador were arming and supporting Communist rebels, and teaching that Jesus Christ was the first Communist. [...]Looking for a denomination, over here.

If you're looking for one with no sinners in it, you'll be looking till you die.

[old and tired]

Looking for a denomination, over here. I am A Man Without a Church.

Please take a look again at the Catholic Church. Every Church is filled with sinners and the Catholic Church is no exception.

I find if spend an hour or so with Our Lord in front of the Blessed Sacrament my anger fades about some of the most outrageous sins ocurring supposedly in the name of the Church. I am left with sorrow for the sins, but sorrow leaves my faith intact.

Maybe if you find a Catholic Church in your area with Adoration this will work for you too.

God Bless.

[old and tired]

you're likely to hear a lighthearted story about the nuns who taught him at St. Joseph's grammar school in Carteret. ..."She prays for both Sen. Gormley and I both"

Bet those nuns love that grammar.

McGreevey disgraces everyone with whom is name is associated.

[Criminal Number 18F]

If you're looking for one with no sinners in it, you'll be looking till you die.

Good point, but my standards are not quite that high. If I could hit the three high points of belief in God & Jesus Christ, not supporting people trying to shoot me or eat my liver in third world settings, and with a hierarchy (if any) that opposes rather than celebrates sin, I'd be happy.

As it is I have a Bible, my faith, and I am happy, but it's uplifting to worship with others; and doing good works in the framework of a church is also pleasing to the psyche and, I believe, the soul. So I'll keep looking, not for a Church without sin but for one where sin isn't the headliner, getting top billing over Jesus -- and that's how I felt, and feel, about the RCC and ECUSA. I don't mean to disparage those Christians who keep faith within those churches.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

[GirlShortstop]

Bet those nuns love that grammar.   GiddyUp!... as does every stickler educated by those nuns!   :-)

McGreevey disgraces everyone with whom is name is associated.    GiddyUp and then some!!

[Coleus]

2290

The virtue of temperance disposes us to avoid every kind of excess: the abuse of food, alcohol, tobacco, or medicine. Those incur grave guilt who, by drunkenness or a love of speed, endanger their own and others' safety on the road, at sea, or in the air.

1809

Temperance is the moral virtue that moderates the attraction of pleasures and provides balance in the use of created goods. It ensures the will's mastery over instincts and keeps desires within the limits of what is honorable. The temperate person directs the sensitive appetites toward what is good and maintains a healthy discretion: "Do not follow your inclination and strength, walking according to the desires of your heart."⁷² Temperance is often praised in the Old Testament: "Do not follow your base desires, but restrain your appetites."⁷³ In the New Testament it is called "moderation" or "sobriety." We ought "to live sober, upright, and godly lives in this world."⁷⁴

To live well is nothing other than to love God with all one's heart, with all one's soul and with all one's efforts; from this it comes about that love is kept whole and uncorrupted (through temperance). No misfortune can disturb it (and this is fortitude). It obeys only [God] (and this is justice), and is careful in discerning things, so as not to be surprised by deceit or trickery (and this is prudence).⁷⁵

 

 

[Land of the Free 04]

one where sin isn't the headliner, getting top billing over Jesus -- and that's how I felt, and feel, about the RCC

With all due respect, that's nonsense. The sins you refer to were never part of Church doctrine nor representative of the majority of clergy or laity. The plain fact is that only the Catholic Church extends back to the time when Christ founded His church.

[Land of the Free 04]

The virtue of temperance disposes us to avoid every kind of excess: the abuse of food, alcohol, tobacco, or medicine.

I agree that the excessive use of alcohol or other drugs is a sin.

[Coleus]

In the RCC, getting excessively drunk is a mortal sin!