Ky: Ban on smoking bans OK'd

kentucky.com ^ | Feb. 13, 2004 | Laura Yuen

[SheLion]

Committee sends bill to the full state Senate

Invoking the words of Ronald Reagan and the Founding Fathers, members of the Senate agriculture committee said they were upholding personal freedoms by unanimously approving a bill that would outlaw local smoking bans.

By a 10-0 vote, lawmakers embraced Sen. Dan Seum's proposal, which would prohibit cities from banning public smoking in areas other than local government buildings. Under the bill, cities could require businesses to post entrance signs that state their smoking policies, giving adults the choice whether to walk into a smoky environment, the committee members said.

Several supporters described the bill as "common sense."

"It's a compromise, but it's what we need to do around here to keep bad ideas from becoming law," said Sen. Damon Thayer, R-Georgetown, referring to ordinances such as Lexington's ban, which would be invalidated under the legislation.

Thayer cited a quote from Reagan about lost freedoms, and then asked: "What's next? ... Cell phone usage? Fast food and the amount we intake? Driving SUVs?" A woman in the audience snickered. "You laugh, but there are movements in this country, and even in this state, to try and affect those freedoms."

The bill now moves to the full Senate, where even legislators who want to defeat it acknowledge they may have problems. "That just means ... we have to fight harder to protect the communities' rights to make their own decisions," said state Sen. Ernesto Scorsone, D-Lexington.

Lexington vice mayor and smoking-ban proponent Mike Scanlon rejected any notion that the bill was a compromise, calling it a "common-nonsense" measure and "political window dressing."

Businesses are already perfectly free to post signs, and the bill would do nothing to level the playing field, ban advocates argued.

"It's a sham," said Scanlon, a restaurant businessman. "They're pretending to do something so they can say they did something and really do nothing. It's the ultimate political magical trick."

Many committee members prefaced their votes by explaining they would normally support the decisions of local governments. But public smoking bans are "trampling on the private property rights" of business owners, said committee chairman Sen. Ernie Harris, R-Crestwood.

The bill's sponsor, Seum, R-Louisville, pointed to oversize examples of signs that businesses would purchase for less than $25. A green light indicated smoking was OK; a yellow light stood for designated areas; and a red light indicated no smoking.

The hearing at times bordered on theatrical. Public health advocates repeatedly cheered Scanlon.

Harris quieted the outbursts: "This is not the House of Commons."

Scanlon got a frostier reception from Thayer. Scanlon's Georgetown Applebee's restaurant, Thayer contended, was one of the smokiest restaurants he has ever set foot in. That led to a rapid-fire exchange.

Thayer: "I'm guessing you allow smoking in Georgetown because there's an O'Charley's across the street, right? Dictated by market factors?"

Scanlon: "Dictated by, 'I've got to be even with the competition, or I can't -- '"

Thayer: "So you as a private business owner are letting the marketplace dictate to you, your business policies? Yes or no?"

Scanlon: "I'm being trapped by --"

Thayer: "Yes or no? You're letting the marketplace decide."

Scanlon: "Your honor, I'm not going to let you trap me into an answer I don't mean."

Thayer: "Well, then you've answered my question."

Lexington's wide-ranging law, which was passed in July but has been put on hold by the Kentucky Supreme Court, would prohibit smokers from lighting up in bingo halls, bars, restaurants and other indoor places open to the public.

The court will hear arguments in the case March 10.

But legislators said Lexington's ban sounded too harsh and could hurt businesses. If a farm housed an office where the public was welcome, smoking would be prohibited in that office, testified Gene McLean, a lobbyist for a group of business owners suing the city.

Many local businesspeople fear customers will take their money elsewhere. A mid-size city like Lexington could lose out on groups looking to hold national conventions, said Gwen Hart, event manager for Marriott's Griffin Gate Resort.

Ellen Hahn, a tobacco-control expert at the University of Kentucky, was outraged by the vote. Over the past few years, agricultural and health forces have united for a common purpose: a federal tobacco buyout.

"And in return, we get this?" Hahn said. "If the agricultural community thinks they're going to get the public health community's support on a federal buyout, they'd better think twice."

McLean called her position "sick and vindictive."

Sen. Tom Buford, R-Nicholasville, who did not sit on the committee but represents southern Fayette County, is leaning against the bill. But he said he thought it would likely pass in the Senate if it comes up for a vote.

"I'm not getting really anxious to support the bill," Buford said. "I don't like dictating to private businesses, but we as Republicans have always taken the stand that local control is what we always strive for."

State Sen. Alice Forgy Kerr, R-Lexington, did not respond to a message left with her Senate office. A spokeswoman for her congressional campaign said she could not reach Kerr, who was at a dinner event, for comment.

Although the bill is several steps away from final passage, many observers already are looking to Gov. Ernie Fletcher, who has the power to make any passed bill moot.

Fletcher spokeswoman Jeannie Lausche said he has yet to review the bill that was debated yesterday.

"But generally, in the past, he has said decisions like this are best left at the local level," she said.

[SheLion]

Kentucky: Lawmakers with some sense! I know they are the tobacco growing capitol of the U.S. but these lawmakers make good sense.

[SheLion]

[zbigreddogz]

I've never had any interested in the Ky before now, but any place where they have people this sane making the laws, maybe I should move there. Wish it were on the coast, I think I might if it were.

[Mears]

Just curious,which coast would you move to? There are more than one the last I heard.

[davisfh]

"Several supporters described the bill as 'common sense.'"

Yes, they do make good sense. I am a non-smoker since 1990, but it occurs to me that many, if not all, of these smoking bans have gone too far for far too long.

My wife and I went to a restaurant last night for our Valentine's Day dinner. The restaurant permits smoking in certain areas. The restaurant was very crowded and we had a short wait. I asked my wife if, when we were asked if we preferred smoking or non-smoking, she would object if I said "first available." She said that she would not object and we ended up in the smoking area. Not a problem at all.

I, as a former smoker, have never understood former smokers who claim to have developed allergies to tobacco smoke after quitting. I have applied a not so original term to these people. That term is "pain in the ass."

[Arpege92]

My hubby works with a guy who is a "pain in the ass" about smokers. This man smokes on and off and he's been like this for years. When he's smoking, he gets very offended by non smokers, and when he's not smoking, he gets very offended by smokers.

I have given up my smoking....it costs way too much money and my hubby had been on my case for a few years now to quit. So I just quit.

[upchuck]

IMHO, THIS is the way it should be done. Let the individual establishments decide how they want to handle this. Much better than ramming something down their throats (al la NYC). This really is common sense.

[George from New England]

NYC is going down the road to promoting fires in buildings.

a.la. The law banning ashtrays will not stop the smokers. Without a safe place to put out the butt, waste baskets, etc will be used and unintentional fires will result. Fires that could have been prevented if not for the ashtray police.

Stupid mayor, stupid city.

[stands2reason]

Scanlon: "Your honor, I'm not going to let you trap me into an answer I don't mean."

LOL!!!

[SheLion]

I've never had any interested in the Ky before now, but any place where they have people this sane making the laws, maybe I should move there. Wish it were on the coast, I think I might if it were.

Yes! Me too! A state with lawmakers who make sense. This is mind boggling. Like I keep saying: if a state wants to ban smoking everywhere, they need to give up the Tobacco Settlement Money and be done with it! What's fair is fair!

[SheLion]

Lame title, could easily be misread. Should have been "Prohibits Smoking Bans".

I know it! The title threw me off too!!!

[SheLion]

I, as a former smoker, have never understood former smokers who claim to have developed allergies to tobacco smoke after quitting. I have applied a not so original term to these people. That term is "pain in the ass."

Your a good person. I admire you! Thanks so much for your tolerance.

It's people like you that make "me" tolerant as well! :)

[SheLion]

IMHO, THIS is the way it should be done. Let the individual establishments decide how they want to handle this. Much better than ramming something down their throats (al la NYC). This really is common sense.

It really does make sense! Let the business owner and his patrons decide if they want smoking or not. NOT the state!

Too many lawmakers wearing brown shirts today and marching in time with jack boots. I just hate it! The power has gone to their heads.

[WaterDragon]

Kentucky lawmakers....hurrah!

[SheLion]

Kentucky lawmakers....hurrah!

[davisfh]

Good move, that quitting thing. I always encourage
people to do that but try never to be rude or oppressive
about it.

[Arpege92]

Rude or oppressive? No way, I know how it feels to be on the receiving end of that. :-}

[davisfh]

Glad to hear that you've given it up. I quit about five
years before my wife did. She had a tough time with it and
relapsed several times. I always knew that she had a
relapse because I have a good nose for these things. I
never said anything about it though. I knew that she was
struggling with it and preferred to let her work it out.
She eventually worked it out and has been tobacco free
since 1995. I'm proud of her and she is so much better off
without it.

[Gabz]

Businesses are already perfectly free to post signs, and the bill would do nothing to level the playing field, ban advocates argued.

Again with the "level playing field" crapola.

The playing field is already level - because, as the antis say themselves - the businesses are free to post signs - and they want to keep it that way.

The antis don't want a level playing field - they wish to control the playing field.

[henderson field]

Yes Kentucky is a very nice place. Winters are mild, nice climate, you have Kentucky Lake or Ohio River for boating, it's scenic, people are nice, and they still think personal freedom is important because they're still Americans, unlike others we all know.

[Arpege92]

It might sound strange, but for me quitting smoking is a huge accomplishment. I thought I'd be a smoker for the rest of my life, but it turns out that I'm stronger than I thought I was.

Anyway...congrats to all those who kick the habit!

[SheLion]

The antis don't want a level playing field - they wish to control the playing field.

You got it, Gabz!

[SheLion]

Anyway...congrats to all those who kick the habit!

And congrats to all who aren't obese!

[Arpege92]

"And congrats to all who aren't obese!"

What's that supposed to mean?

[Gabz]

What's that supposed to mean?

The overweight are the next in the crosshairs of the nanny state.

In fact it has already started and many of those who were at the forefront of the attack on smokers are at the forefront on the attack against "big food" and it's customers.

[Arpege92]

The overweight are already in the crosshairs of the nanny state, but that still doesn't excuse the rude behavior of one SheLion.

If you want to smoke, then by all means smoke. Don't attack me or other's who kick the habit and are proud of it. I am not one of those ex smokers who feels the need to help other smokers quit!!!!!

[Gabz]

I'm sorry you think She Lion was being rude. I didn't take her comment that way at all.

I've known her for a long time and she, like me, is always extremely appreciative of people such as yourself who are former smokers that don't get on the nanny-banner's bandwagon.

Folks such as yourself are more the norm than the exception, except to the antis and the lamestream media. We do appreciate the fact you are making it known.

You have every right to be proud of having quit the habit, and I commend you for making up your mind to do something and doing it.

[Arpege92]

I appreciate that. :-}

[Rockpile]

Now let me get this straight--------Vice-mayor restaurant owning Mr. Scanlon operates a smoke-filled establishment but he's against smoking in such an establishment? He wants the gooberment to ban lighting up in businesses but he's too much of a gutless pansy to do it in his own place? What's the term for pathetic, two-faced, hypocrite low-life?

BTW, I've smoked half of one cigarette in my 50+ years--never did care for 'em--but this monumental hypocricy is just too much.

[sweetliberty]

"Ellen Hahn, a tobacco-control expert at the University of Kentucky, was outraged by the vote. Over the past few years, agricultural and health forces have united for a common purpose: a federal tobacco buyout"

Poor baby. What's the matter Ellen; can't handle it when the government works the way it's supposed to in protecting individual rights?

[sweetliberty]

"you have Kentucky Lake or Ohio River for boating"

And don't forget Cumberland Lake....in an absolutely heavenly area with over 400 miles of shoreline. I have many times considered moving back to Kentucky. The winters are a bit harsher than they are here, but not horrible and that is where most of my family is. It's beautiful country and down-to-earth people.

[Great Dane]

Could this be a new trend. Reagan needs to be quoted more often.

[Great Dane]

Hey Mears... Any coast will do in a storm. :-}

[Republican Wildcat]

What, was my thread not good enough?

[SheLion]

What, was my thread not good enough?

I didn't know it had been listed before. Sorry about that!

Someone sent it to me in email and we needed a link, so I slapped it on Free Republic!! Didn't mean to over step your thread!!

[CSM]

"IMHO, THIS is the way it should be done. Let the individual establishments decide how they want to handle this."

It is sad, that the default is not the constitution any more. This legislation is an example that the constitution no longer applies in this country. While I applaued these lawmakers, I despise the fact that this action is necessary. Why do we need a law that assures the private property owner gets the use of their property? Answer: The "general welfare" clause in the preamble and the "commerce clause" have trumped our constitution. Thanks WOsD and nanny do gooder socialists!

[Republican Wildcat]

Ah, no offense. I should have inserted a sarcasm tag.

[zbigreddogz]

I already live on the coast, I live in Washington State. I'm considering moving, partly just because I'm bored, and partly because the job market here is abyssmal. I really like living next to the water. I'm not a huge boater, or swimmer, but I do like doing those things occasionally, just like the water. I've thought of moving to California, Georgia, or Florida, but haven't really thought about a state in the midwest. I love what some of them have done, here included, but I just don't think I'd like living that far away from the coast.