Angry cries of America's 'outsourced' middle class

The Arizona Republic ^ | 03.09.04 | E.J. Montini

[Beck_isright]

Among those who apparently didn't listen to the 43-year-old unemployed woman whose recorded message was posted online last week by The Republic were Arizona's Jon Kyl and John McCain, along with 24 of their Senate colleagues, all of them collecting fat government paychecks.

[_Jim]

its a wide range of things: customer support, programming, backoffice jobs, accounting.

And WHEREIN lies the LARGEST expense - those hundreds of people simply answering phones yet producing nothing directly for the bottom line - right?

Right.

For every *true* IT worker there are dozens and dozens of 'phone answerers' ...

AND my point is - those 'IT workers' you cite above are more correctly termed 'developers' or 'programmers' so I think you, too, have fallen victim to the 'press' on this issue by referring those service-oriented call center jobs as 'IT' jobs ...

[FreeReign]

Yeah ... right ... are you familiar with the term full of $hit ... you should be

Hey, you can believe what you want. I've been posting here for over five years and I really don't give a crap what you think.

BTW. I was being nice about your credentials -- they s*ck!

Chip tester in C++. LOL. A person who is fluent in C++ doesn't say the following; "I'm fluent in C Pascal Basic Fortran Verilog RTL ETC..."

Full of it -- YOU!

Nobody owes you a job.

[Texasforever]

No it is responsible for manufacturing going off shore. Prior to computerized lathes it required a highly skilled machinist to operate it. Once computerized it only required a low skilled worker to remove the part from the jig when done. It went from a 20 dollar an hour job to one worth only minimum wage. The same is true for robot-aided assembly lines to paint shops. When American machinist Unions refused to accept that fact and still insisted on the original compensation the Companies said hell no and moved it to Mexico. It had nothing to do with the government it had everything to do with the advance of technology that you and others like you developed. Now the same technology is taking your jobs and you can’t accept the fact.

[oceanview]

but what's wrong with talking about those "help desk" style jobs? for many companies, that's the key thing that they do, the most essential service they provide to their customers. to say they "produce nothing", what workers at American Express and Direct TV "produce" anything? They are service companies.

[Texasforever]

Lotus Notes? BWaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

[Jorge]

It's their own CHILDREN we are talking about here for god's sake.

It's God with a capital "G".

why are you doing an economic analysis on it, they are not taking in people off the street.

I'm doing an "economic analysis on it" because a poster claimed the 5.6% unemployment rate was not accurate..due to the fact there are supposedly 8.2 million unemployed workers who've just giving up looking for work and moved back in with Mommy and Daddy.

I don't buy it.

[hobson]

Your reply: Priceless! LOL!

[Ciexyz]

I agree with your post concerning the brutality of large companies. These laid-off employees knew that going in. They were allowed to prosper for awhile, and then the company downsized them. It ain't fun, it ain't fair, but it's how the job market works.

[Ches]

"It's up to people to regroup and find another way to make a living."

Aren't laws that allow massive immigration, legal and illegal, along with totally unfettered trade a manipulation of supply and demand in the job market? Enforcing our immigration laws will go a long way in providing employment for the citizens of this country. Those profiting from our domestic markets who feel no allegiance to this country and the people who have made it great and outsource to satisfy their own greed, should be subject to some restraint. I know we have all the evils; the EPA, OSHA, a litigious society, on and on, but gutting the work force to eliminate those evils will create many unintended consequences as we are witnessing now.

[Fledermaus]

Outsourcing isn't a "craze".

And we insource millions of jobs ourselves.

All the buzz words are useless. You have to look at the macro picture of an $11 trillion economy. Nitpicking every little aspect like outsourcing or jobs to Mexico, etc. doesn't mean much.

When I was a kid it was low-skilled jobs to Mexico that was the chatter. Good, low paying jobs should be the ones we replace first. Then it was the threat of Japanese imports and all of their sudden investment into our country (funny, even INSOURCING from Japan to create jobs for Americans is bad), to NAFTA, to free-trade...people whine about every minor change and want some huge government "solution" created by nitpicking politicians that stirred up the masses to begin with that does nothing but drive more businesses away or into the ground.

[CWOJackson]

"Priceless!"

Confession time. Actually, you can buy it at Target, $6.99, made in Taiwan.

[Monty22]

What are you laughing at? The last 2 companies I've worked with (TI and Exxonmobil) both used Notes a lot, until this day.

And I also do hands on support of SAP too, which you can laugh at if you want.

[foreverfree]

bump

[oceanview]

chinese workers could easily acquire the skills, had technology not developed "low skill" lathes, and they would work for much less then the US workers.

even china is losing manufacturing jobs to automation and technology. its the same reason why only a fraction of americans work on farms, but produce far greater quantities of food.

[Lazamataz]

Yeah ... right ... are you familiar with the term full of $hit ... you should be

Free Reign, would it be safe to say clamper has failed the phone interview? ;^)

[Lazamataz]

Yeah ... right ... are you familiar with the term full of $hit ... you should be

Free Reign, would it be safe to say clamper has failed the phone interview? ;^)

(dammit I hate when this software trims the second ping name)

[nutmeg]

bump

[_Jim]

Monty22 wrote initially:

... outsourcing their primary IT center ...

_Jim's question:

Is this the term that's being used now for customer support centers these days?

Also known as a 'call center'?

To which Monty22 replied: Why are you badmouthing tech support? It's freaking IT. Get over yourself

To which I now respond:

I simply asked a question in order to clarify an area which seems to have been blurred by 'the press' and some on this board in presenting their version of 'the situation', the facts -

- but since you bring it up, there is a further distinction between 'tech support' as you put it and a simple 'call center' which can fields calls from the public on a wider range of subjects, including: billing departments, order taking desks, reservations, et al ...

[oceanview]

i don't hold the shift key, it saves stress on my pinky.

not all of them moved back in with their parents, that's just one example of where some of them go.

[Texasforever]

These laid-off employees knew that going in. They were allowed to prosper for awhile, and then the company downsized

The reason they were "downsized" is that during the Vaporware boom, they could ask for wages far beyond the actual value of their jobs. When the dot.com "boom" went away they then were brought back to earth and they had no bargaining power. In fact the companies had moved on and found other labor resources.