Angry cries of America's 'outsourced' middle class

The Arizona Republic ^ | 03.09.04 | E.J. Montini

[Beck_isright]

Among those who apparently didn't listen to the 43-year-old unemployed woman whose recorded message was posted online last week by The Republic were Arizona's Jon Kyl and John McCain, along with 24 of their Senate colleagues, all of them collecting fat government paychecks.

[Jorge]

With no detraction of his record, I think this is one of the key elements why people like Reagan so much.

Yes. And as a side note, it was during the Reagan years that I switched from Democrat to Republican.

[FITZ]

How many of our products are the Chinese buying? And how come India is doing so well with all this free trade in spite of having tariffs three times what our tariffs are?

[Luis Gonzalez]

"What is prudence in the conduct of every private family can scarce be folly in that of a great kingdom. If a foreign country can supply us with a commodity cheaper than we ourselves can make it, better buy it of them with some part of the produce of our own industry employed in a way in which we have some advantage." -- Adam Smith

"Consumption is the sole end and purpose of all production; and the interest of the producer ought to be attended to only so far as it may be necessary for promoting that of the consumer." -- Adam Smith

[CWOJackson]

ALRIGHT!

[Sender]

IT is basically an overhead activity whose only value added is reducing labor costs within the actual profit centers

I disagree. IT is tasked with making the actual profit centers work reliably and productively. If they can do that and also reduce costs, then so much the better...but the costs in lost customer loyalty are much higher than the savings in payroll and taxes. The most expensive customer of all is the one you have to win back. And American customers appreciate service from Americans.

[WFTR]

I'm saying that the American government shouldn't be building roads, bridges, airports, railways, etc. around the world to facilitate the manufacture of goods in other countries. If we decide that subsidizing infrastructure to help an industry is good policy, we should at the very least be subsidizing that infrastructure in our own country so that we are the ones enjoying the jobs created by that infrastructure.

I'm saying that I'm tired of people who try to praise free market capitalism and cheer the movement of jobs to other countries when the manufacturing couldn't have happened in other countries without Americans being forced to give tax dollars to the government to build the infrastructure that made that movement possible. If someone wants to be opposed to the government trying to influence where things are made, one should also be an opponent of governmental efforts to make it possible to make things in other places. If all Americans are taxed to provide the capital to make industry in other places possible, then all Americans should receive the return on that investment.

[Texasforever]

Oh cripes a libertatrian. Never mind.

[Dialup Llama]

>No company ever went broke making a profit...Texasforever 2004

Of course they can. Sometimes profits come at a great cost. Once companies nuke their intellectual, productive and professional human capital for no compensation, stockholders are going to wonder precisely who owns the resources that the hollowed out company pretends to control? The offshoree is going to start to wonder, just why the original company needs to exist at all? Then valuations start to fall and I bet the last few quarters before the fall will be really good ones too.

[Texasforever]

Sorry but it IS an overhead operation. It is not in any way a revenue center in the vast majority of companies. Just like the mailroom, personnel department, legal department and every other overhead group imaginable. I am not saying that all are not important but all are necessary evils when it comes to a company’s bottom line.

[No.6]

This thread is too much fun. Can I play?

I work at a middle-sized company where I've been for 8 years. Over Bush's term I've refinanced my mortgage so that I've cut 7 years off the repayment schedule, made the last payment on a car, and am about to pay off my HDTV with some to spare thanks to much lower tax rates. That's one income, with family. No DINK scenario here; good old traditional single-worker with Mom raising kid. Of course that meant NOT racking up tons of debt buying stupid things, home cooking and not restaurants, and not trading in cars every three years to follow the latest vehicular fashion trend, but I don't feel any loss there.

If we'd had Gore, over the last couple years my taxes would have been the same or higher as before 2001, interest rates would be high (and therefore inflation too), I wouldn't have refinanced and would never have had the money for the HDTV at all. That is assuming Gore's wuss response to 9/11 didn't encourage Al-Q and others to strike again, and again ... wait, but you guys want Kerry, who is somewhere left of Swimmy Ted Kennedy, and that'll fix it? I thought this URL started with www.freer... and not www.democ....

As an IT worker, I know that a bunch of short-sighted managers are seeking the quick fix over in India or China right now. Already some are reaping the benefits. An English bank just got burned for many millions by outsourcing to an Indian firm who was bribed by criminals to wire customers' money away. Ooops. Just wait till big projects come back from India over budget, over due, and wrong. Do you think they'll hire Dinesh or Bhattacharawamanan to fix it? No, they're going to panic and haul everything right back home to people they can see face to face and who communicate in clear American English. There are obviously many honest and skilled Indians and they'll prosper, but so will we.

If I'm wrong and my job's next I'm not a single-skill automaton, if IT jobs are gone I'll do one of a pile of other things I know how to do, or start my own business.

The HDTV? Made in USA, for Panasonic. Must be a myth, though, to hear some speak.

[_Jim]

And anyone who thinks those aren't controlled big time ought to try a little "free-trade" on their own --- they won't get far.

Au contraire - I've dealt with with several Canadian firms that can now ship there product duty free and without customs hassles directly from their fab shop to my door via Fed Ex ...

If you are in the N.A.F.T.A. zone, there will not be any duty charges or brokerage fees on your shipment if FedEx is used.

http://www.apcircuits.com/clients/shipping.html

[Walkin Man]

Hey, call me crazy, but...

I think the government of the United States of America ought to be more concerned about American citizens and their welfare as opposed to communist China's slave labor camps, Bangalore fricken India or illegal Mexican lawbreakers!

[MissouriForBush]

China's government-controlled "free enterprise" is certainly doing a better job at importing our technology than buying our products.

Look at what they have achieved on sea lanes and canals. Take a look at their merchant marine, for example, and also the fact that they now dominate frozen/refrigerated cargo shipping. All of this boosts export/import capacity on THEIR terms.

[Texasforever]

Of course they can. Sometimes profits come at a great cost. Once companies nuke their intellectual, productive and professional human capital for no compensation, stockholders are going to wonder precisely who owns the resources that the hollowed out company pretends to control?

You simply cannot be serious with that statement? You buy stock in a company to make money and who makes that money within the company is irrelevant. In today's environment a CEO that took your advice wouldn't last beyond his first board meeting.

[CWOJackson]

Wow...you must be the only American still working and who hasn't been ruined by three years of President Bush.

[_Jim]

The problem is that in regard to our "free trade" with China, the Chinese politicians ARE the ones in charge of trade on that end.

Not quite so fast there - the situation you're painting would seem to have Chinese politicians minding a watch and controlling every decision at every 'shop'/assembly plant that is operated over there - and that's not quite the case ...

[RipSawyer]

)." How the government can claim we have sub 1% inflation is beyond me."

It is easy when you use their "market basket". We need an index based on necessities only and I mean REAL necessities, such an index would show huge annual increases.
As it stands now, the government figures are meaningless.

[Texasforever]

Hey, call me crazy, but...

Well...........

[_Jim]

    As an IT worker ..

Sorry, I just have to jump in here to examine a much over-used and under-descriptive term "IT worker" -

- can you be more specific than just "IT worker" - are you a developer, a call-taker, do you work at a 'call center'?

If this is being too prying - I will understand ...

[Luis Gonzalez]

Yes, you are crazy.

You post in a conservative site, and advocate socialism.