Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Jurors Hear Evidence of John Doe No. 2 at Nichols' Murder Trial
Associated Press ^ | Published: May 7, 2004 | Tim Talley

Posted on 05/07/2004 3:28:33 AM PDT by Jet Jaguar

McALESTER, Okla. (AP) - Defense attorneys for Oklahoma City bombing conspirator Terry Nichols shifted the focus of his murder trial to John Doe No. 2 as they began presenting their case.

Defense attorneys questioned six witnesses Thursday on an issue that is key to Nichols' defense, that McVeigh had contact with people other than Nichols in the final days before the bombing of the Oklahoma City federal building.

Sketches bearing the image of John Doe No. 2, a muscular, dark-skinned suspect who does not resemble Nichols, were flashed across television monitors during testimony.

The defense alleges McVeigh received substantial help from others in planning the April 19, 1995, bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building and that Nichols was set up to take the blame. The blast killed 168 people and injured more than 500 others.

(Excerpt) Read more at ap.tbo.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; US: Oklahoma
KEYWORDS: johndoeno2; okc; okcbombing

1 posted on 05/07/2004 3:28:33 AM PDT by Jet Jaguar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: alaska-sgt
Uh oh...
2 posted on 05/07/2004 3:37:24 AM PDT by kcvl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kcvl
'bout time.
3 posted on 05/07/2004 3:42:21 AM PDT by Ozarkie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Ozarkie
Going to work early. Got it bookmarked for this afternoon. Can't wait to see the discussion on here then.
4 posted on 05/07/2004 3:44:43 AM PDT by Ozarkie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: alaska-sgt

I am always struck by the absolute resemblance of the sketch of John Doe to Jose Padilla, who has been arrested in the dirty bomb probe in Chicago. If anyone has that sketch and his picture, please post that again since we have some newcomers to FR.
5 posted on 05/07/2004 3:45:03 AM PDT by kittymyrib
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: alaska-sgt
One more bump just because.
6 posted on 05/07/2004 3:45:23 AM PDT by Ozarkie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kittymyrib
I noticed that as well.
7 posted on 05/07/2004 3:49:44 AM PDT by Jet Jaguar (Who would the terrorists vote for?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: alaska-sgt
I hope it all comes out in the trial.

That being said, I don't understand Nichol's defense- "I am not guilty because there were lots of us involved in the plot..."

If I was a juror, I would say, "Thanks for the info on the others, but you are still guilty. Off to the electric chair for you."
8 posted on 05/07/2004 3:51:19 AM PDT by 11th Earl of Mar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ScaniaBoy; Cooter; eyespysomething; B4Ranch; Alamo-Girl; Triple; MJY1288; potlatch; Shermy; ...
OKC-911 CONNECTION ALERT. Please let me know by freepmail if you want to be taken off this list. Thanks.
9 posted on 05/07/2004 3:54:08 AM PDT by ovrtaxt (Forget ANWR -- Drill Israel!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: alaska-sgt
McALESTER, Okla. (AP) - Defense attorneys for Oklahoma City bombing conspirator Terry Nichols shifted the focus of his murder trial to John Doe No. 2 as they began presenting their case.
Defense attorneys questioned six witnesses Thursday on an issue that is key to Nichols' defense, that McVeigh had contact with people other than Nichols in the final days before the bombing of the Oklahoma City federal building.

Sketches bearing the image of John Doe No. 2, a muscular, dark-skinned suspect who does not resemble Nichols, were flashed across television monitors during testimony.

The defense alleges McVeigh received substantial help from others in planning the April 19, 1995, bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building and that Nichols was set up to take the blame. The blast killed 168 people and injured more than 500 others.

Lea McGown, owner of the Dreamland Motel in Junction City, Kan., testified that she rented a room to McVeigh from April 14 to April 18.

McGown also said she heard McVeigh talking with one or two other men in his room one night. She said she couldn't identify them but thought one of the men had telephoned McVeigh's room earlier.

"I heard Mr. McVeigh's voice and another velvety voice and a third voice in the background," McGown said. On cross examination, she said the third voice could have come from a television set.

The day McVeigh checked in, a man came in the motel lobby and asked directions to Room 25, where McVeigh was staying, McGown said. She gave the man directions to the barber shop where McVeigh was getting his hair cut, she said.

McGown said she didn't remember the man's face but that he was between 25 and 35 years old, had light skin and eyes and a small build.

She said she remembered seeing McVeigh with a large Ryder rental truck on the Sunday before the bombing, one day before prosecutors allege he leased it at Elliott's Body Shop using the alias Robert Kling.

McGown also said she never saw McVeigh with anyone else and couldn't identify an FBI sketch of John Doe No. 2. However, she did identify two phone calls that were made from the room to Nichols' home in Herington, Kan.

The defense's first witness was FBI artist Raymond Rozycki, who drew the sketch based on a description by Elliott's Body Shop employee Tom Kessinger.

The drawing depicted a heavy, well-built man with brown eyes and hair who witnesses said was with McVeigh at the leasing agency. Rozycki also drew a sketch of McVeigh.

Kessinger said the man wore a black T-shirt, a baseball cap with white and blue zigzag patterns and had a tattoo on his left arm.

Hilda Lopez, a former housekeeper at the Dreamland Motel, said she saw a man wearing a cap with a similar pattern walk toward a Ryder truck that was parked in the motel parking lot on April 17.

The man was well-built, had short black hair and a dark complexion that made him appear Hispanic, she recalled.

A former Chinese food deliveryman, John Jeffrey Davis, said he brought an order to a man who was neither McVeigh nor Nichols at McVeigh's motel room on April 15.

Davis identified a composite sketch of the man drawn by an artist in April 1996, but it didn't match FBI sketches of McVeigh or John Doe No. 2.

Also Thursday, Judge Steven Taylor replaced a juror who suffered a heart attack before arriving in court. The excused juror, Robert Dale McCoy, is expected to make a full recovery, Taylor said. He was replaced by a female alternate, changing the makeup of Nichols' jury to six men and six women.

Nichols, 49, is serving a life prison sentence on involuntary manslaughter and conspiracy counts in the deaths of eight federal agents in the bombing.

In Oklahoma, he faces 161 counts of first-degree murder for the deaths of the other 160 victims and one victim's fetus.

McVeigh was convicted on federal murder charges and executed in 2001.

AP-ES-05-07-04 0452EDT

10 posted on 05/07/2004 3:56:30 AM PDT by demlosers
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: alaska-sgt
Bumpity bump bump bump
11 posted on 05/07/2004 3:58:25 AM PDT by Victor
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Victor
tinfoil suit bttt!
12 posted on 05/07/2004 4:03:11 AM PDT by Maigrey (Member of the Free Republic War Babies' Live Thread Reporting Service)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Maigrey
No tin foil needed, Ray Charles could see a connection.
13 posted on 05/07/2004 4:10:13 AM PDT by eastforker (The color of justice is green,just ask Johny Cochran!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: kittymyrib
"the man[the supposed John Doe #2]had a tattoo on his left arm."

I wonder if Jose has a tattoo.
14 posted on 05/07/2004 4:31:46 AM PDT by Bahbah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: alaska-sgt
Well, this isn't very strong for the pro-conspiracy side; Lea McGown cannot say for sure there were two other men in the room (one voice "could have been a TV"). She never saw McVeigh with anyone else and couldn't identify "John Doe #2." Not good for the pro-conspiracy view.

Hilda Lopez and Tom Kessinger are a little better, but Davis did serious damage to the conspiracy position.

If this is all Nichols has, then the "John Doe #2" defense isn't going anywhere.

15 posted on 05/07/2004 4:35:34 AM PDT by LS (CNN is the Amtrak of news.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: alaska-sgt
Well, this isn't very strong for the pro-conspiracy side; Lea McGown cannot say for sure there were two other men in the room (one voice "could have been a TV"). She never saw McVeigh with anyone else and couldn't identify "John Doe #2." Not good for the pro-conspiracy view.

Hilda Lopez and Tom Kessinger are a little better, but Davis did serious damage to the conspiracy position.

If this is all Nichols has, then the "John Doe #2" defense isn't going anywhere.

16 posted on 05/07/2004 4:35:47 AM PDT by LS (CNN is the Amtrak of news.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: LS
Jayna Davis's book The Third Terrorist is a must read. So much more evidence than I ever thought. There are 23 witnesses to John Doe #2 who is identified in the book (not Jose). The people who back up the evidence in Davis's book is impressive.

The book is an excellent read; I can't recommend it enough.
17 posted on 05/07/2004 4:48:22 AM PDT by Peach
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: alaska-sgt
The news in Buffalo just said that 5 people from this area are going to testify in the trial.

Apparently they received anti American literature from McVeigh.
18 posted on 05/07/2004 4:50:08 AM PDT by The Mayor (A true friend helps you keep going when you feel like giving up.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: alaska-sgt
Will Nichols lawyers have him tell his story. It was Nichols who was in Cebu City in the Philippines at the same time as Ramzi Yousef. It was Nichols who went from bumbling bomb maker to creator of the stereotype ammonium nitrate device. If his lawyers do not call him to testify then this is all smoke and mirrors. The only person currently available to provide info is Terry Nichols. All the rest will be either corroboration if he testifies or sideshow if he doesn't.
19 posted on 05/07/2004 5:08:35 AM PDT by xkaydet65 (" You have never tasted freedom my friend, else you would know, it is purchased not with gold, but w)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NCjim
Mark for later...
20 posted on 05/07/2004 5:15:46 AM PDT by NCjim
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: xkaydet65
Jayna Davis was onto this story from the start. The question that should be asked is: Why was there so much interest in not being interested in following up the leads that people gave? One FBI informant was supposed to have given advance warning which was not followed up on. This could be no more reason than CYA by the FBI. It could be far worse, time will tell.
21 posted on 05/07/2004 5:24:32 AM PDT by meenie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: alaska-sgt
Bump!
22 posted on 05/07/2004 5:33:14 AM PDT by RottiBiz (Help end Freepathons -- become a Monthly Donor.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Peach
I plan to get this. But whether these witnesses are in fact credible will have to stand the test of cross-examination. As we see, it is one thing for a witness to say there were "three men" in a room, and quite another to say, "Well, I THOUGHT I HEARD three men, but one could be the TV."
23 posted on 05/07/2004 5:33:42 AM PDT by LS (CNN is the Amtrak of news.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Lady Composer
Read later....
24 posted on 05/07/2004 5:48:15 AM PDT by Lady Composer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: LS
The book is more heavily researched than I thought it would be. The witnesses contemporaneously (sp?) identified Al-Hussaini as John Doe #2. They identified his tatoo, his truck and his face.
25 posted on 05/07/2004 6:13:18 AM PDT by Peach
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: xkaydet65
One would hope that Nichols would cooperate at this point to save his life. There must be some way the prosecution could get him to talk. Maybe a cell change into the local drug arrest popluation? A little socializing with some of Oklahoma's finest child killer haters would be the ticket?
26 posted on 05/07/2004 6:20:33 AM PDT by oldironsides
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: oldironsides
Klinton and his immature team (administration) are no doubt feeling the rumblings of this. The managing FBI office of the Oklahoma investigation, located, interestingly, in Denver, refused to accept the 20 plus affidavits of the witnesses Jayna Davis attempted to deliver. That refusal smacks of a very 'high' order (Reno?) to ignore vital facts in an investigation.

I hope this comes to a mighty fruition and our nation realizes exactly how klinton ignored the security of the United States of America.

27 posted on 05/07/2004 6:27:19 AM PDT by Republic
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: alaska-sgt
Bump for later reading. Should be interesting as to how this turns out in the end.
28 posted on 05/07/2004 6:31:00 AM PDT by Ragirl (Vote in '04 ! Those who sit on their hands end up with poop on them.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: meenie
Heard Jayna Davis on KLIF in Dallas one morning a couple weeks ago; seems she mentions as witness to two men getting out of the Ryder truck in front of the Murrah Building and getting into the getaway car (driven by Nichols?).

And there were eyewitnesses to two men getting INTO the Ryder truck at the motel the morning of the bombing.

The third man is alleged by her to be a former Iraqi soldier who later went to work as a security guard at - get this - Boston Logan Airport!
29 posted on 05/07/2004 6:31:43 AM PDT by Redbob
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: alaska-sgt
bump
30 posted on 05/07/2004 8:03:53 AM PDT by rwfromkansas ("Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?" -- Abraham Lincoln)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Republic
...refused to accept the 20 plus affidavits of the witnesses Jayna Davis attempted to deliver. That refusal smacks of a very 'high' order (Reno?) to ignore vital facts in an investigation.

I think this is extremely damning. How could they possibly justify not even accepting the affidavits to look at?

Anyone know whether Jayna Davis will be testifying?

31 posted on 05/07/2004 8:07:20 AM PDT by iowamomforfreedom (The right to die? or the right to be killed - http://www.life-or-death-decisions.org)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: ovrtaxt
Thanks for the ping!
32 posted on 05/07/2004 11:19:00 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: kittymyrib
I agree - the resemblence is stunning!
33 posted on 05/07/2004 12:13:05 PM PDT by CyberAnt (The 2004 Election is for the SOUL of AMERICA)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: eastforker
LOL! Good analogy!
34 posted on 05/07/2004 12:14:43 PM PDT by CyberAnt (The 2004 Election is for the SOUL of AMERICA)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: 11th Earl of Mar
That being said, I don't understand Nichol's defense- "I am not guilty because there were lots of us involved in the plot..."

I think NIchols is trying to prove that the Feds withheld evidence in the case, trying to prove obstruction, or an unfair trial perhaps.

It may work, as the FBI seems to have tampered with witness accounts, videotapes, and of course the crime scene itself was completely destroyed with heavy equipment only days after the bombing.

35 posted on 05/07/2004 2:41:30 PM PDT by ovrtaxt (Forget ANWR -- Drill Israel!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Mia T
fyi (this is very interesting, T, to say the least)
36 posted on 05/07/2004 6:20:23 PM PDT by jla (http://hillarytalks.blogspot.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Peach
Just got the Davis book today...as soon as I'm done with Rumsfeld's War it's up!!
The amount of info here on FR got me very curious about the whole 9-11 / OKC / TWA / Al-Queda / Iraq connections...not to mention the Cole, the Kohbar Towers, the African embassies, etc...just too much info to be labled as "tin-foil" IMHO.
Saddam knew he couldn't take us on mano-a-mano and has been utilizing/training/funding terrorists for years now...with the help of PC 'Rats (I'll even give them the benefit of the doubt and say "unknowingly"...then again, maybe not!).
37 posted on 05/07/2004 9:59:02 PM PDT by FlashBack (USA...USA...USA...USA...USA...USA...USA...USA...USA...USA..USA...USA!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: kittymyrib

38 posted on 05/07/2004 10:07:28 PM PDT by RaceBannon (VOTE DEMOCRAT AND LEARN ARABIC FREE!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: RaceBannon
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
39 posted on 05/08/2004 6:06:28 AM PDT by MindBender26 (For more news as it happens, news first, fast, 5 minutes sooner, stay tuned to FReeper Radio!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: 11th Earl of Mar
When the defense has the facts on their side, they pound on the facts,

When the defense has the law on their side, they pound on the law,

When the defense has neither the facts nor the law on their side, they pound on the table!

This is classic table pounding.
40 posted on 05/08/2004 6:09:08 AM PDT by MindBender26 (For more news as it happens, news first, fast, 5 minutes sooner, stay tuned to FReeper Radio!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Republic; kcvl; Gary Aldrich
That refusal smacks of a very 'high' order (Reno?) to ignore vital facts in an investigation.

Dick Morris says that Reno was a figurehead and that Jamie Gorelick was running the place. (OK, his predictions aren't very good but he DOES know what went on the Clinton WH.) Gorelick's memo suffocated many investigations and she personally intervened to shut down some of them.

I hope this comes to a mighty fruition and our nation realizes exactly how klinton ignored the security of the United States of America

I don't think he (and she) ignored our security; I think they systematically dismantled it. Remember Gary Aldrich's Unlimited Access. He figured they did it to protect the many druggies among the little groupies that were the Clinton administration.

I always thought that nobody would risk compromising a whole presidency over a bunch of drugged up kids. OTOH the drug issue went way beyond the users. Don't forget the Dan Lasater connection.

IMO there was always a plan in place to compromise security of all types because the Clintons intended to do things that would not bear the light of day. The only question in my mind was whether it was all for the purpose of covering up money grubbing scams or if it was something much worse than that...

41 posted on 05/08/2004 7:23:38 AM PDT by Sal
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: MindBender26
Jayna Davis believes that John Doe #2 is Abdul Hakim Murad, though, not Jose Padilla

http://www.jaynadavis.com
42 posted on 05/08/2004 1:53:03 PM PDT by RaceBannon (VOTE DEMOCRAT AND LEARN ARABIC FREE!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: alaska-sgt
You mean that Middle Easterner who was all over the news as a suspect in the bombing until the Clinton's shut that down so they could blame right wing radio? :-)
43 posted on 05/09/2004 9:29:24 PM PDT by ladyinred (Kerry has more flip flops than Waikiki Beach)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: alaska-sgt
I realize you'll all think I'm nuts, but from the beginning I felt that Clinton, himself, had something to do with the OKC bombing. He needed a boost then to get himself re-elected and what an opportunity to look like such a caring guy! He WOULD stoop to any low to get his way! How do you think both he and Hillary KNEW he'd be elected to begin with!?! They are ruthless!
44 posted on 05/09/2004 11:16:55 PM PDT by Shery (S. H. in APOland)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RaceBannon
This guy?

Born Timothy J. Winter in 1960, Abdal Hakim studied at the prestigious Westminster School in London, UK and later at the University of Cambridge, where he graduated with first class honours in Arabic in 1983. He then lived in Cairo for three years, studying Islam under traditional teachers at Al-Azhar, one of the oldest universities in the world. He went on to reside for three years in Jeddah, where he administered a commercial translation office and maintained close contact with Habib Ahmad Mashhur al-Haddad and other ulama from Hadramaut, Yemen.

In 1989, Sheikh Abdal Hakim returned to England and spent two years at the University of London learning Turkish and Farsi. Since 1992 he has been a doctoral student at Oxford University, specializing in the religious life of the early Ottoman Empire. In 1996, he was appointed University Lecturer in Islamic Studies at the University of Cambridge.

Sheikh Abdal Hakim is the translator of a number of works, including two volumes from Imam al-Ghazali Ihya Ulum al-Din. He gives durus and halaqas from time to time and taught the works of Imam al-Ghazali at the Winter 1995 Deen Intensive Program in New Haven, CT. He appears frequently on BBC Radio and writes occasionally for a number of publications including The Independent and Q-News International, Britain's premier Muslim Magazine.

He lives with his wife and children in Cambridge, UK.

http://www.themodernreligion.com/profile/shaykh-murad.jpg

45 posted on 05/10/2004 4:15:10 PM PDT by fishtank
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson