Posted on 09/30/2004 5:57:19 PM PDT by Admin Moderator
Thread 1 - Pre-Debate discussion
I lost track of how many times DH and I said, during the debate, "that sounds expensive."
Whether Kerry won or lost, according to the media, is irrelevant. I cannot imagine how anyone could've watched tonight's debate and come away thinking Kerry could be trusted. You can win a debate and still be a gooey waffle.
I've said it many times - this election is not Bush vs. Kerry. It's Bush vs. Not Bush. I've never spoken with anyone who said they really liked Kerry - if they were on that side, they said they didn't like Bush. That's all. How can you win a race that way?
"You know, Tonkin, I'm suddenly very interested in your service in 'Nam... I'm sure you're very proud of it... I wonder... what unit were you with, when were you in 'Nam and where did you serve?"
http://www.freerepublic.com/~6869tonkingulfyachtc/
More info here
http://stophanoikerry.150m.com/
and a backup site if 150.com is busy
http://tonkin.spymac.net/hanoikerry.html
But posting things like you're posting, on a forum where we pretty much all already agree Kerry is scum, is just a bloody waste of time... and regardless of whether the pics are on the server or not, you're killing anyone on a modem and wasting bandwidth.
Whether Dubya won or lost will soon be forgotten.
What will not be forgotten are the lies and outrageous statements made by Kerry!
I've always had one position on Iraq?
I never said President Bush lied?
Global Test?
Nuke fuel to Iran?
Saddam was not a threat early in debate, but was a threat by end of debate?
Dissing Allies?
Dissing Allawi?
Mixed messages = aid and comfort to terrorists!
Kerry has reinforced the fact that he is a liar and an opportunist. That will be what is remembered from this debate.
3000 people getting killed in terrorist attacks, a biochemical attack, and two wars for starts.
Prairie
Mr global test flip flopper did not do anything to correct his self styled image of stupidity on the issue of america's sovereignty.
Bush is not a debate style candidate.
But I got the message. WE will not ask permission to defend ourselves. We will make a real election an reality in Iraq. Our enemies won't dissuade us, and we will focus on the 'hard work, hard work, hard work, hard work' of liberty, until this world is a safer place.
redundant, repetitive and NON SLICK.
plain spoken, non nuanced texas speak.
I rather like have a NON nuance trained president.
So do America's soccer mommies.
BINGO
Goodness, sit down and take a deep breath. Here, let your head hang down, let the blood flow. No, don't talk. Take some more breaths.
In an earlier post, you alleged this debate cost Bush the election.
It most certainly did not and you and the others need to get a grip.
I will say that I thought Kerry did a very good job and the President, well he did okay. Bush has a tendancy to say "umm" alot and to be a bit more circumspect before he answers. Kerry has a foot locker full of words he can pull out with no advance notice and speak his lies fluidly and with the smoothness of a seasoned orator. For the first time, I felt like Kerry took a stand tonight and hey, it's not a popular one.
You, Michelle, have no confidence in the American people. All of us know Bush is no wordsmith. I saw his mistakes, I noticed when he didn't answer the question or answered a question not yet asked.
But, really, he did okay. Get a grip.
The man does have one firm message and he did not change it. And why should he? 1)He believes it and 2)so does the American public.
John Kerry said tonight that if we had left Saddamn in power he would have eventually faded away after the nineteenth UN sanction. Bush responded forcefully that he most certainly would not have.
Bush, of course, is right.
That's what the debate is about. Bush said what he's always said and just between you and I, he said it in that awkward, boyish kind of way he has.
Kerry spouted his lies fluidly and he looked cool as a cuke doing it. But go on girl, he said nothing.
Americans are way smarter than this. Evidently you think we're all stupid out here in la-la land just like the lamestream media.
Kerry made absolutely no gains tonight whatsoever. Except he can lie convincingly. Hey, we Americans had 8 years of Clinton, we know a lie when we see one.
The country will still be voting for Bush because, ah, we've been there and done that.
New thought, are the next debates about domestic issues only? is this were FinK gets up there and finesses job loss numbers, deficit numbers and the number of generations it's going to take to pay it off, healthcare losses, etc, ????
Watching the replay, kerry is nodding on every point W is hammering on. Agreeing with W asking how you can denigrate our allies. W looks much better on the replay and answering the questions cleanly and clearly.
Pray for W and Our Troops
What's your point?
Pray for W and Our Troops
Having said that, I did learn that I cannot try to watch the debate and keep up with the posting here.
must...choose...
STYLE: What can I say. Dubya is Dubya. He is the same man I've been watching closely since the summer of 1999. There is something in him that is too kind to go for the jugular in these kinds of forums, as much as we who love him wish he would. He also is not an actor -- neither in the positive, professional sense of a Ronald Reagan nor in the negative sense of being artificial.
There is no artifice to GWB. So you see it in his face and body language when he's irritated, impatient, frustrated, tired, loving, kind, sincere, forthright, and so on. He was all these things, and more, tonight. He is, and always will be a diamond in the rough. A real guy doing great and difficult things out in the trenches while the effete snobs sit back in their salons, nitpicking and snickering.
Kerry, on the other hand, has some of the physical tools the president lacks. Kerry is tall, with an erect posture, and a richer tonal quality to his voice. After spending 20 years in the senate, where they do nothing but talk about minutia day in and day out, it should suprise no one that Kerry's style was smooth, his delivery polished, his manner assured, his self-control strong, and his seeming grasp of details commanding.
On substance, the president did what he always has: hammered home a few points clearly, sincerely and repetitively. Occassionally, the repetition got a little overbearing. (The questions were pretty lame, in my opinion.) However, he had the chance to speak from the heart a few times, and that's where he towers over anyone else on the public stage in our time, because he's real. Having absolutely no artifice can hurt when he's got to hide what's inside him and can't (such as impatience and frustration). But it's his greatest strength when that kind yet lion heart is on full view.
On substance, Kerry talked a lot, but truly my eyes glazed over much of the time as he went on. In 90 minutes, he went from insisting that the president made a terrible mistake by taking out Saddam, to saying that Saddam was a threat, but that he (Kerry) would have handled it differently. The essense of Kerry's message is that the president hasn't done anything right in nearly four years, and that he (Kerry) could have done and will do everything smarter, better, faster, with more kowtowing to the "international community."
During the same 90 minutes that Kerry slammed the president over and over about not having a coalition in Iraq, he slammed the president for having a coaltion to deal with North Korea. With NK, Kerry wants to have unilateral negotiations with Kim Il Jong. Go figure. And Kerry's approach to Iran is downright terrifying, because he'd give them nuclear materials purportedly for benign uses.
Anyway, "HM," that's a pretty accurate summary of what happened. I can't say who won or lost, because that's not my thing. I can see how people who want to assign a win and a loss could say that Kerry did better than the president in debating skills. For those who respond to smooth style over rough substance, Kerry won. But then, I don't think John Kerry is fit to shine GWB's shoes, so I'm probably not the best person to assess who won or lost.
I'm not gonna stop praying... indeed, after tonight GW needs it now more than ever.
But as far as Tonkin, his Vet status does not give him the right to post graphics that add nothing to the discussion but instead killd every patriot on a modem.
What you said!
W is just that way. He was that way in 2000. I just don't get this hang up on the way he debates. He is not programmed. He will never change people get over it.
Bush did great. He let Kerry lie and lie and lie some more. All these lies are gonna bite Kerry in his big fat butt in the coming weeks. Bush will let Cheney come out on the attack on these lies. Bush is the President. Acting like an attack dog would have hurt him. That's the job of people like Zell.
I suspect that it in the end, the public may conclude that Kerry is better at arguing about policies, but Bush's policies are better, and he is better at implementing them.
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