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GONE IN A DAY: YEAR'S SUPPLY OF 'SKILLED' VISAS
Miami Herald ^ | Oct. 06, 2004 | Herald Staff and Wire Reports

Posted on 10/06/2004 2:27:43 PM PDT by JesseHousman

The U.S. used up its supply of 65,000 temporary visas for skilled foreign workers in a single day. Advocates for raising the quota said that bolstered their case.

South Florida businesses that rely on talented foreign workers to fill technical positions are out of luck until next October -- unless they have an applicant already in the pipeline.

Federal officials closed the 2005 application window for highly coveted foreign professional visas just hours after it opened.

The unprecedented rush for temporary visas for those skilled foreign workers demonstrates U.S. companies' pent-up demand for candidates in such technical fields as engineering, mathematics and research. And, South Florida experts say, it increases the likelihood that companies will outsource jobs overseas.

''It means, unfortunately, that employers here will have less options in terms of hiring,'' Deborah Vazquez, chief executive of the Miami-Dade and Broward County recruiting firm Protech, told The Herald. ``We will have fewer candidates, [less] talent in a situation in which demand very much outstrips supply.''

The quota of 65,000 ''H-1B'' visas was filled Friday, the first day of the 2005 fiscal year, meaning that U.S. companies must wait until October 2005 to hire more foreign workers under the visas.

Until two years ago, the government issued 195,000 of the visas annually. The allotment was slashed because of increased restrictions on immigration following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

Job losses in the computer and high-tech sectors have made legislators reluctant to reinstate the bigger quota, even though U.S. companies have argued that most of the jobs filled are outside those sectors.

''It was a real wake-up call when these numbers were issued,'' said Sandra Boyd, who chairs Compete America, a corporate coalition pushing for more H-1B visas. ``I don't think anyone believes it's acceptable that a whole year can now go by without any access to these people.''

The H-1B visas have been popular with U.S. companies, which maintain that they cannot find enough American workers with advanced scientific and engineering degrees to fill critical jobs. Last year, the 65,000-worker cap was hit in February 2004, about five months into the fiscal year.

Tammy Fox-Isicoff, a Miami immigration attorney who helps foreign professionals get H-1Bs, said lawmakers must raise the visa cap again or ''carve out exceptions'' for disaster areas like Florida after the hurricanes or for professions with employee shortages such as teachers or healthcare professionals.

''This situation is terrible that when the doors open to H-1Bs, it swings shut on the same day,'' Fox-Isicoff said in an interview with The Herald. ``It's not good for American business.''

Companies were allowed to submit applications against this year's quota in April.

Theodore Ruthizer, who heads the business immigration practice at Kramer Levin, a New York law firm, predicted that the scarcity of slots will worsen unless Congress expands the program.

''It just proves the numbers are inadequate,'' he told The Financial Times.

U.S. companies have been urging Congress to adopt an interim measure by exempting from the quota any foreign national holding an advanced degree from a U.S. school. That would add about 20,000 positions a year.

About two-thirds of students taking advanced mathematics and engineering degrees at U.S. schools are foreign born. U.S. companies say they will be at a disadvantage should those students go to work for overseas competitors.

And immigrant-rich South Florida has a large share of that talent.

''We have so many universities here with foreign students who come and graduate and look for jobs in the area,'' Andrew Koerner, a partner with the Leaf Koerner law firm in Miami, told The Herald. ``It's just sad to see these small-business owners suddenly stopped from being able to grow their businesses.''

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

© 2004 Herald.com and wire service sources. All Rights Reserved. http://www.miami.com


TOPICS: Breaking News; Foreign Affairs; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: aliens; h1b; illegals; immigration; napalminthemorning; skilledaliens; visas; wot
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To: Dat Mon

Perhaps you can explain how what is declared on paper cannot be verified. I know that the bank can verify whether or not I work for my employer, etc....


181 posted on 10/07/2004 6:46:58 PM PDT by unspun (RU working your precinct, churchmembers, etc. 4 good votes? | Not "Unspun w/ AnnaZ" but I appreciate)
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To: unspun
Ill give you one example. Now mind that I'm not representing myself as a Federal labor expert on this. I'm just an engineer grunt running a business. What I am saying is a rehash of what others who are very knowledgeable have told me.

On the forms, they require that a wage paid to an H1b be paid at "the prevailing rate".

Now there is no official definition as to what that rate is. There is a space on the form which requires a company to explain what calculations were used to arrive at THEIR definition of the prevailing rate.

One of the options that the company can check is OTHER.

End of story.
182 posted on 10/07/2004 6:54:48 PM PDT by Dat Mon (clever tagline under construction)
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To: Dat Mon

I worked for a staffing company - which, by the way - gave excellent benefits - however, they were contract positions.

A lot of US people DID take the jobs - the vast majority left wives and kids at home for very extended periods (up to years) and lived in small apt.s with other transplants. A large number chose NOT to take the jobs, and in those cases, when we were pressed , we went with H1B's. You all are making me feel like a traitor for doing it, and I don't think that's fair.

If a rule is in place, and your competitors are using the same rules to compete in the same market (a global market, how creepy is that?) how can you condemn a company, or a recruiter, for doing what they can to survive economically?

The trade rules need to be changed. The policies that encourage outsourcing need to be changed. The laws that allow OSHA to go in and fine Boeing $20,000 (or was it $200,000?) for having a bottle of Windex out of it's designated spot - things have to change or there will be no domestic employers left here.


183 posted on 10/07/2004 7:23:17 PM PDT by Julie(LCR) (democrats thrive when good people sit back and do nothing)
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To: snopercod

Oh wow. That is ridiculous. 2 months after my college graduation in December I got my job, and make a bit more than twice that, as an ag engineer in North Dakota with little experience beyond my senior design project. (BTW ND's economy is doing pretty well right now, if you can stand the cold.)


184 posted on 10/07/2004 7:38:03 PM PDT by patricktschetter
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To: LeftCoastRebel
The economic system that is in place now is what I would term a government entitlement program which benefits selected businesses. I am against entitlements in principle, and am inclined towards a level playing field for all.

The H1b program operates under the jurisdiction of the Federal government, which has the authority under the constitution to regulate commerce between the US and other nations.

The official policies of the government should NOT be policies which put some US citizens at an economic disadvantage. The free market not only establishes the prices of goods, but services as well (employment being a service transaction basically). Using H1b, a company has now circumvented the free market, establishing an artificial wage scale, with the power of the government to underwrite it.

I appreciate that you do not want to be part of the problem.

I wish that others also would share your concerns.
185 posted on 10/07/2004 7:45:10 PM PDT by Dat Mon (clever tagline under construction)
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To: dakine

> Hear! Hear!...

What do you do to pay the bills?
Curious.


186 posted on 10/07/2004 8:28:27 PM PDT by old-ager
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To: MikeinIraq

> Proud to be a Computer hack in Iraq

Stay safe sir. I hope you are packing some major heat.


187 posted on 10/07/2004 8:38:06 PM PDT by old-ager
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To: Regulator
Once again, genius: Who says it's "your" property?

I do, me. And my name is on the deed. And on the stock certificate.

Who says it's not my property, you?

188 posted on 10/07/2004 9:34:06 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Hey, look at me, I'm a math major.)
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To: snopercod
Then I found out what the job paid - $20,000 per year. Un-frikkin-believable.

I don't know much about the requirements of EEs in the steam turbine business, but I do know this much. Even an H-1B won't work at that rate. They can make more money as a waiter at an Indian restaurant.

But I do know something about EEs in the high-end semiconductor industry. And they are paid much, much more than $20K. A hell of lot more.

Personally, I simply don't believe a BSEE with 5 yrs of experience only can make $20K. They were paid more than that as a starting salary when I graduated college fifteen years ago. If the industry is in the dumps, like my industry (aerospace) was in 1990, they don't hire at a low wage, they just don't hire.

189 posted on 10/07/2004 9:34:35 PM PDT by magellan
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To: meadsjn; Dat Mon; redgolum; HamiltonJay; gonewt; Rightwing Conspiratr1; MTOrlando; JudgemAll; ...

I have gotten a surprising number of responses from people in this thread. Obviously this is a very contentious issue that is splitting the Conservative community. In my opinion, this is also an issue that is demagogued for political advantage by both parties and they are both dead wrong.

First of all, personal stories are always illustrative, and there are a lot of very interesting ones on this thread, but we have to keep in mind that at any given time economic conditions can be good and bad in different areas of the country.

Secondly, this IS a free trade issue. Free trade benefits everyone. Why is this a free trade issue? Because government is standing in the way of economic freedom and preventing private enterprise from hiring who they wish. Remember Adam Smith’s golden rule: an economic transaction will not take place unless both parties benefit from it.

Thirdly, I understand that having more high tech workers COULD lower wages for SOME American high tech workers. People on this thread have been writing like this is a certainty. Not true. What might happen is that an American Engineer hires some of the foreign Engineers to work FOR him and then the American worker/company makes a higher salary then before because their business is more competitive and/or the American Engineer has more supervisory responsibility.

Fourthly, the American consumer gains big, which helps spur economic growth. Prices will fall for a product or service, which in turn cut costs in other areas. All other industries and consumers benefit from this.

Fifthly, Foreign investment is encouraged. Why move a company to a country (US) where the cost of your high tech workers is sky high? Why build a Toyota plant here, when you can build one in China and pay your high tech workers less? As President Bush said at the Republican Convention, "American needs to be the best place to do business in the world". That means companies that come here need to have the best hiring options available to them.

Sixthly, American companies become more competitive globally. If a company can lower costs 10% by hiring cheaper engineers, then maybe they can boost exports 40% and hire even more workers then they would have without this ability to hire. Also, these talented workers are with US companies instead of with US competitors. Furthermore, American companies might be more tempted to outsource overseas if they can save big on labor costs in these areas… The more savings they can get here the less likely they are to outsource. Now let's stop for a second, aren’t you all against outsourcing?!?!?

Seventhly, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe many of these foreign workers use this first step as a stepping-stone to citizen ship. I think it either speeds the process up, or makes the success of their application more likely, especially if they continue to work for the company here in the US. Bringing these productive, hard working, knowledgeable people under the American flag can only advance our nation and our economic strength. We are a nation of immigrants and we should not forget that. Currently the brain drain flows TO the US. Let's keep it that way.

Finally, all you people who are sooooo upset about this are almost reacting just like liberals: with pure emotion. Take a step back and look at what is actually happening. It is a win-win-win-win situation. Like liberals, politicians who rail against free trade are doing so for purely political reasons. They are doing it to get elected. In reality, it is atrocious policy. It is disturbing to me that so many 'Conservatives' are against something that is such a benefit to the American economy.

Free Trade IS a conservative idea. Reagan was a HUGE free trader (although like Bush Jr I believe he made some exceptions out of political necessity). Clinton passed NAFTA against a lot of objection in his own party (and some conservatives like Buchanon and the Perot crowd). NAFTA has been a huge success. The doom and gloom crowd were dead wrong about it. Now, Kerry is talking about ‘fair trade’ and ‘environmental’ and ‘labor standards’, which is code signifying his intention to use government to skew the goodies towards his special interest contributors.

Let's not turn back to the failed policies of the past. We need to unite Conservatives around this issue.


190 posted on 10/07/2004 9:36:31 PM PDT by traviskicks (http://www.neoperspectives.com/welfare.htm)
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To: old-ager

I am not armed, but I have a very sharp flashlight!!


It is a stupid rule, but when I deployed in January, contractors were not allowed to be armed. Kinda dumb if you ask me....


191 posted on 10/07/2004 9:37:55 PM PDT by MikefromOhio (Rudi Bahktiar is hot!!!!)
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To: Myrddin
Try to apply for one of those jobs. Most of the postings are formalities. They will not hire you if you apply. They will only hire H1B applicants. The postings are a ruse to make them eligible to hire the H1Bs.

Pardon me, but you make no sense.

First, there is no requirement that a corporation post a job on the internet in order to be able to hire an H-1B.

Second, I work for a tech company that needs high-end EEs right now. They will pay me a rather nice referal fee if I know somebody that meets the requirements, applies, and is ultimately hired. They don't care a bit about the color of the person's skin or their national origin. They care about what is between the person's ears and if it can help my company create leading edge products.

Or do you believe a company has to send emails promoting referal fees to its employees to be qualified to hire H-1Bs?

192 posted on 10/07/2004 9:40:08 PM PDT by magellan
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To: traviskicks
NAFTA has been a huge success.

Sure it has --- the national debt has never been higher, Texas and California are facing almost impossible state budget deficits, the number of impoverished people is growing at about 1 million/year. Immigration from Mexico is at previously unimaginable rates. The regions along the Mexican border are in economic disaster and require billions of dollars in federal relief. The recent elections in Mexico showed them making a sharp turn to the leftist parties and the violent crime rate is skyrocketing. How many NAFTA displaced workers are still living off government programs like NAFTA-TAA, Medicaid, food stamps, housing subsidies, free job retraining? It's been a huge success for a very few.

193 posted on 10/07/2004 9:54:11 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: traviskicks

http://newpaper.asia1.com.sg/printfriendly/0,4139,39028,00.html

"It is no wonder that many doctors feel the lure of the US these days.

There was a net migration of 49 neurosurgeons from Canada from 1996 to 2002, said the Canadian Institute for Health Information - a large loss, since there are only 241 neurosurgeons in the country."


---
Lesson learned: Good for us and Bad for Canada. Let's keep it up. I don't see Neurosurgeon salaries dropping. The more government meddles and restricts the more people flee and the more the economy stagnates.


194 posted on 10/07/2004 10:27:19 PM PDT by traviskicks (http://www.neoperspectives.com/welfare.htm)
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To: traviskicks
I appreciate your well thought out response. It is true that this issue is a definitive wedge issue which can divide conservatives.

But my concerns are that in the propaganda war that is being waged, terms are being used interchangeably and have been generalized and diluted of their true, historical significance.

One instance of this is H1b /L1, and the fact that its proponents try very cleverly to tie this in with the issues of immigration. These are two distinct issues. H1b and other guest workers are by definition temporary. There is no attempt to assimilate these workers into the society at large. If you talk to people who have direct experience, they will tell you that these people are most times completely isolated, living together in sparse surroundings, most working long hours. Why are they doing this...well partly the prestige, but mostly to gain the knowledge and training they will later take back to their native countries...thus transferring the comparative advantage.

Another issue is the lumping in of H1b / L1 guest visas with "free trade". This thread was about guest worker visas, you have responded by arguing a different point, namely the advantages of free trade.

Free trade is one of those idealized philoshopical terms like "free love" from the sixties. (Problem was, it wasn't love, and it wasn't free). Like its namesake, it is used to justify what Ill term short term economically promiscuous behavior, all with the benefit supposedly to be accrued later to the population as a whole. Im all in favor of free trade which gives, (as Ricardo spoke of comparative advantage) a TRUE long term comparative advantage to the United States.

Now as a business owner I could very well hire H1b workers if I was willing to deal with one firms such as Tata or many others which are springing up lately. But I will not do so, as I see it as harmful to the engineering profession in the US in the long term.

Without a viable engineering profession, with US citizen engineers holding SECURITY CLEARANCES, we will not be able to design, build, and test the next generation of weapons systems and defense systems.

I want my fellow Americans to kick butt in the world on ALL levels, not just as soldiers on the battlefield. Frankly, I don't worry about the economic health of other nations and their citizens, and I make no apologies for this attitude. I want the US to reign supreme in all matters economic, with Americans building the high tech marvels we were once renowned for. Selling a high tech product designed and built in USA to the global market is what Im striving for. Funny, but this is what the engineers in other countries feel...there IS a sense of national pride...and thats as it should be.

I worked on an IRD project for the first Star Wars program back in the 80's. We couldn't quite pull it off then...the technology just wasnt there. Now its possible. In 10-20 years...it may not be possible to keep ahead of India, China, or other countries in designing and building the latest hi-tech wonders.

We are not simply a collection of individual businesses in the US, we are also part of a complex, interrelated infrastructure. We cannot keep a healthy society if we exclude large segments of jobs from native born Americans or American citizens. Thats not a liberal statement..it is a fact of life.
195 posted on 10/07/2004 10:53:32 PM PDT by Dat Mon (clever tagline under construction)
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To: MTOrlando
Official numbers ignore those who have given up looking for work and those who have maxed out unemployment benefits.

Why would anyone include those who have given up looking for work in unemployment figures? Their not unemployed, because they are not looking to be employed.

My brother is a good man with a family and he is a veterian of the Gulf War. He sat on unemployment until it almost ran out before looking for a job. He figured he's been paying into unemployment many years...he's gonna cash out. If I was laid off I would find a job before my benifits ran out. I would take 2 or 3 lower paying jobs before my house got repossed or my family was forced to eat Mac n Cheese twice a week. I don't know why our government pays people to sit at home, but I would rather not count them in the figure for those who are unable to find work.

They also don't account for "underemployed" people - engineers with years of experience who are now flipping burgers, stocking shelves, or otherwise working far below their level, or working part-time.

And now their losing those jobs to illegal immigrants. Wow! It must suck to be an engineer! We have always had people who don't want to work and people who can't find a job that suits there skills. How is that different than any previous year? What's the difference.

CNN - 5.6% Unemployment is 'low' (1996), 5.6% Unemlpoyment is high (Today)

Economists didn't expect June's unemployment rate to be much different from May's, which was an already-low 5.6 percent. But in fact, it did fall -- to 5.3 percent. The unemployment rate hasn't been that low since June 1990.

Unemployment is 5.4% today.
196 posted on 10/07/2004 11:55:00 PM PDT by Once-Ler (Proud Republican. and Neo-Con Bushbot.)
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To: magellan
I think you are mistaken with respect to the requirements to hire an H1B. I worked at a company that wanted to hire a very talented Italian web designer. We had to jump through major hoops including advertising the job before we got permission to hire him. He was an H1B hire.

The job positions posted on the Qualcomm site in 2001 were present for the specific purpose of satisfying the requirement to attempt to hire an American citizen for the job before being permitted to hire an H1B.

My company is offering nice referral fees for finding good quality employees too. Most of the positions are only open to a U.S. citizen who can acquire a Secret or better clearance. We value the opportunity to include talented employees from around the globe, thus we have offices all over the world. The most recent offices have been opened in India.

My current project includes a subcontractor whose employees are nearly 100% Indian. The guys are brilliant. They work from an office in Chicago. The only complexity with these guys is finding a restaurant that caters to the varied dietary proclivities of our project team.

197 posted on 10/08/2004 12:38:45 AM PDT by Myrddin
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To: traviskicks

Bull... Free Trade is a scam! The very notion one must be Free Trade to be conservative is a flat out lie! One that anyone who's seriously thought about it cannot contend it remotely in the best interest of the nation.

"Free" trade is a huge scam, always has been always will be. It undermines national sovereignty, places greed before sound long term fiscal policy and frankly props up despotic and authoritative regimes. It is absolutely UNCONSCIONABLE that a nation that uses political prisoners as slave labor can import goods to the United States, let alone do it Duty Free!

Trade should be bilateral agreements between nations, and the US should be using its position of strength in this area to require second and third teir nations to improve themselves in order to get access to our markets. If Uganda or some other 3rd world nation with a corrupt governmental system wishes access to our markets, we should use that access to force them to improve their nation, private property laws, a seperate judiciary, and accountable government, freedom of the press and increase their ability to bring in trade accordingly.

I have nothing against sharing the wealth in terms of international trade, or building up future consumer bases around the world by it, but our goal must be to not only allow money to flow to these nations... because if that's all it is, you will wind up with more despots who live even higher than they already are off the backs of their people and the labor they produce.

Free Trade is the absolutely greatest bald face lie EVER perpetrated on the american people... it is even worse than the Federal Reserve Act!


198 posted on 10/08/2004 5:26:20 AM PDT by HamiltonJay ("You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.")
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To: old-ager

I scam folks....


199 posted on 10/08/2004 9:30:00 AM PDT by dakine
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To: Toddsterpatriot
I do, me. And my name is on the deed

Piece of paper. If any organized group of people wanted to, they could come and take it. Maybe only one or two. Who would stop them? Mexican police?

200 posted on 10/08/2004 10:01:26 AM PDT by Regulator
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