Posted on 10/06/2004 2:27:43 PM PDT by JesseHousman
Perhaps you can explain how what is declared on paper cannot be verified. I know that the bank can verify whether or not I work for my employer, etc....
I worked for a staffing company - which, by the way - gave excellent benefits - however, they were contract positions.
A lot of US people DID take the jobs - the vast majority left wives and kids at home for very extended periods (up to years) and lived in small apt.s with other transplants. A large number chose NOT to take the jobs, and in those cases, when we were pressed , we went with H1B's. You all are making me feel like a traitor for doing it, and I don't think that's fair.
If a rule is in place, and your competitors are using the same rules to compete in the same market (a global market, how creepy is that?) how can you condemn a company, or a recruiter, for doing what they can to survive economically?
The trade rules need to be changed. The policies that encourage outsourcing need to be changed. The laws that allow OSHA to go in and fine Boeing $20,000 (or was it $200,000?) for having a bottle of Windex out of it's designated spot - things have to change or there will be no domestic employers left here.
Oh wow. That is ridiculous. 2 months after my college graduation in December I got my job, and make a bit more than twice that, as an ag engineer in North Dakota with little experience beyond my senior design project. (BTW ND's economy is doing pretty well right now, if you can stand the cold.)
> Hear! Hear!...
What do you do to pay the bills?
Curious.
> Proud to be a Computer hack in Iraq
Stay safe sir. I hope you are packing some major heat.
I do, me. And my name is on the deed. And on the stock certificate.
Who says it's not my property, you?
I don't know much about the requirements of EEs in the steam turbine business, but I do know this much. Even an H-1B won't work at that rate. They can make more money as a waiter at an Indian restaurant.
But I do know something about EEs in the high-end semiconductor industry. And they are paid much, much more than $20K. A hell of lot more.
Personally, I simply don't believe a BSEE with 5 yrs of experience only can make $20K. They were paid more than that as a starting salary when I graduated college fifteen years ago. If the industry is in the dumps, like my industry (aerospace) was in 1990, they don't hire at a low wage, they just don't hire.
I have gotten a surprising number of responses from people in this thread. Obviously this is a very contentious issue that is splitting the Conservative community. In my opinion, this is also an issue that is demagogued for political advantage by both parties and they are both dead wrong.
First of all, personal stories are always illustrative, and there are a lot of very interesting ones on this thread, but we have to keep in mind that at any given time economic conditions can be good and bad in different areas of the country.
Secondly, this IS a free trade issue. Free trade benefits everyone. Why is this a free trade issue? Because government is standing in the way of economic freedom and preventing private enterprise from hiring who they wish. Remember Adam Smith’s golden rule: an economic transaction will not take place unless both parties benefit from it.
Thirdly, I understand that having more high tech workers COULD lower wages for SOME American high tech workers. People on this thread have been writing like this is a certainty. Not true. What might happen is that an American Engineer hires some of the foreign Engineers to work FOR him and then the American worker/company makes a higher salary then before because their business is more competitive and/or the American Engineer has more supervisory responsibility.
Fourthly, the American consumer gains big, which helps spur economic growth. Prices will fall for a product or service, which in turn cut costs in other areas. All other industries and consumers benefit from this.
Fifthly, Foreign investment is encouraged. Why move a company to a country (US) where the cost of your high tech workers is sky high? Why build a Toyota plant here, when you can build one in China and pay your high tech workers less? As President Bush said at the Republican Convention, "American needs to be the best place to do business in the world". That means companies that come here need to have the best hiring options available to them.
Sixthly, American companies become more competitive globally. If a company can lower costs 10% by hiring cheaper engineers, then maybe they can boost exports 40% and hire even more workers then they would have without this ability to hire. Also, these talented workers are with US companies instead of with US competitors. Furthermore, American companies might be more tempted to outsource overseas if they can save big on labor costs in these areas… The more savings they can get here the less likely they are to outsource. Now let's stop for a second, aren’t you all against outsourcing?!?!?
Seventhly, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe many of these foreign workers use this first step as a stepping-stone to citizen ship. I think it either speeds the process up, or makes the success of their application more likely, especially if they continue to work for the company here in the US. Bringing these productive, hard working, knowledgeable people under the American flag can only advance our nation and our economic strength. We are a nation of immigrants and we should not forget that. Currently the brain drain flows TO the US. Let's keep it that way.
Finally, all you people who are sooooo upset about this are almost reacting just like liberals: with pure emotion. Take a step back and look at what is actually happening. It is a win-win-win-win situation. Like liberals, politicians who rail against free trade are doing so for purely political reasons. They are doing it to get elected. In reality, it is atrocious policy. It is disturbing to me that so many 'Conservatives' are against something that is such a benefit to the American economy.
Free Trade IS a conservative idea. Reagan was a HUGE free trader (although like Bush Jr I believe he made some exceptions out of political necessity). Clinton passed NAFTA against a lot of objection in his own party (and some conservatives like Buchanon and the Perot crowd). NAFTA has been a huge success. The doom and gloom crowd were dead wrong about it. Now, Kerry is talking about ‘fair trade’ and ‘environmental’ and ‘labor standards’, which is code signifying his intention to use government to skew the goodies towards his special interest contributors.
Let's not turn back to the failed policies of the past. We need to unite Conservatives around this issue.
I am not armed, but I have a very sharp flashlight!!
It is a stupid rule, but when I deployed in January, contractors were not allowed to be armed. Kinda dumb if you ask me....
Pardon me, but you make no sense.
First, there is no requirement that a corporation post a job on the internet in order to be able to hire an H-1B.
Second, I work for a tech company that needs high-end EEs right now. They will pay me a rather nice referal fee if I know somebody that meets the requirements, applies, and is ultimately hired. They don't care a bit about the color of the person's skin or their national origin. They care about what is between the person's ears and if it can help my company create leading edge products.
Or do you believe a company has to send emails promoting referal fees to its employees to be qualified to hire H-1Bs?
Sure it has --- the national debt has never been higher, Texas and California are facing almost impossible state budget deficits, the number of impoverished people is growing at about 1 million/year. Immigration from Mexico is at previously unimaginable rates. The regions along the Mexican border are in economic disaster and require billions of dollars in federal relief. The recent elections in Mexico showed them making a sharp turn to the leftist parties and the violent crime rate is skyrocketing. How many NAFTA displaced workers are still living off government programs like NAFTA-TAA, Medicaid, food stamps, housing subsidies, free job retraining? It's been a huge success for a very few.
http://newpaper.asia1.com.sg/printfriendly/0,4139,39028,00.html
"It is no wonder that many doctors feel the lure of the US these days.
There was a net migration of 49 neurosurgeons from Canada from 1996 to 2002, said the Canadian Institute for Health Information - a large loss, since there are only 241 neurosurgeons in the country."
---
Lesson learned: Good for us and Bad for Canada. Let's keep it up. I don't see Neurosurgeon salaries dropping. The more government meddles and restricts the more people flee and the more the economy stagnates.
Why would anyone include those who have given up looking for work in unemployment figures? Their not unemployed, because they are not looking to be employed.
My brother is a good man with a family and he is a veterian of the Gulf War. He sat on unemployment until it almost ran out before looking for a job. He figured he's been paying into unemployment many years...he's gonna cash out. If I was laid off I would find a job before my benifits ran out. I would take 2 or 3 lower paying jobs before my house got repossed or my family was forced to eat Mac n Cheese twice a week. I don't know why our government pays people to sit at home, but I would rather not count them in the figure for those who are unable to find work.
They also don't account for "underemployed" people - engineers with years of experience who are now flipping burgers, stocking shelves, or otherwise working far below their level, or working part-time.
And now their losing those jobs to illegal immigrants. Wow! It must suck to be an engineer! We have always had people who don't want to work and people who can't find a job that suits there skills. How is that different than any previous year? What's the difference.
CNN - 5.6% Unemployment is 'low' (1996), 5.6% Unemlpoyment is high (Today)
Unemployment is 5.4% today.Economists didn't expect June's unemployment rate to be much different from May's, which was an already-low 5.6 percent. But in fact, it did fall -- to 5.3 percent. The unemployment rate hasn't been that low since June 1990.
The job positions posted on the Qualcomm site in 2001 were present for the specific purpose of satisfying the requirement to attempt to hire an American citizen for the job before being permitted to hire an H1B.
My company is offering nice referral fees for finding good quality employees too. Most of the positions are only open to a U.S. citizen who can acquire a Secret or better clearance. We value the opportunity to include talented employees from around the globe, thus we have offices all over the world. The most recent offices have been opened in India.
My current project includes a subcontractor whose employees are nearly 100% Indian. The guys are brilliant. They work from an office in Chicago. The only complexity with these guys is finding a restaurant that caters to the varied dietary proclivities of our project team.
Bull... Free Trade is a scam! The very notion one must be Free Trade to be conservative is a flat out lie! One that anyone who's seriously thought about it cannot contend it remotely in the best interest of the nation.
"Free" trade is a huge scam, always has been always will be. It undermines national sovereignty, places greed before sound long term fiscal policy and frankly props up despotic and authoritative regimes. It is absolutely UNCONSCIONABLE that a nation that uses political prisoners as slave labor can import goods to the United States, let alone do it Duty Free!
Trade should be bilateral agreements between nations, and the US should be using its position of strength in this area to require second and third teir nations to improve themselves in order to get access to our markets. If Uganda or some other 3rd world nation with a corrupt governmental system wishes access to our markets, we should use that access to force them to improve their nation, private property laws, a seperate judiciary, and accountable government, freedom of the press and increase their ability to bring in trade accordingly.
I have nothing against sharing the wealth in terms of international trade, or building up future consumer bases around the world by it, but our goal must be to not only allow money to flow to these nations... because if that's all it is, you will wind up with more despots who live even higher than they already are off the backs of their people and the labor they produce.
Free Trade is the absolutely greatest bald face lie EVER perpetrated on the american people... it is even worse than the Federal Reserve Act!
I scam folks....
Piece of paper. If any organized group of people wanted to, they could come and take it. Maybe only one or two. Who would stop them? Mexican police?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.