Posted on 11/17/2004 12:10:58 PM PST by sc2_ct
I'm sorry for the vanity, but this is really the only place that I could think of to try to get the opinions of some other people in regards to an incident that happened to me today. I understand the laws regarding my concealed handgun, and the state laws, but this situation just has me sort of stunned.
I was driving through a fairly nice area in a not-so-nice town to pick someone up from work to have lunch with them. As I was driving down the a two-lane (each way) road at 45mph, a car shot out in front of me with so little room that I locked up my brakes and swerved into the left lane. As I'm still skidding and swerving to avoid this guy, he jerked his car into the lane I was now in while flipping me off so I had to swerve back into the original lane. I ended up finally stopping and proceeded up but had to stop due to a car at a stop light and he pulled up next to me.
I was content to just sit there fuming in my car without causing an incident, but the next thing I know, I've got a 250+ LB yelling black man dressed like a thug jumping out of his car and moving toward my car. I was completely stunned by this turn of events, and I was blocked in between the car in front of me, him beside me, and a wall on my right, and blocked in from behind as well.
Just as I realized that there was nowhere I could drive to, I unholstered my Kel-Tec 9mm (being careful to keep it below the window line and hence not visible), and just then, the car in front started to move (taking a free right on red thank God), so I sped off between the cars and dodging through a red light. He was in a Lexus and I was in a Saturn, so it wasn't too long until he had caught up, but thankfully I like Auto-crossing so I managed to finally lose the guy.
After sitting in the car shaking for a minute or so (I never drive recklessly on streets, and haven't put myself in positions to have altercations in years) I put the pistol away and took an alternate route and had lunch.
I guess my mind's still racing since I can't really analyze my reactions. I know that legally once there was an opportunity to escape I was required by CT law to do so, but I just can't stop replaying the situation in my mind and wondering what I would have done had the car in front of me not turned. I've never been in a situation quite like that before, but this is the first (and hopefully the last) time I have ever taken my pistol out in a hostile situation. I guess the other possible outcomes just have me a bit shaken.
Well, has anyone else ever been in a similar situation or any observations on something I could have done differently?
LOL! And keep another clip handy.
Not always. I was going to a softball game when a guy ran into the back of me. I just wanted to exchange info and get to the game, but this idiot insisted on calling the cops. After quite a while, a cop came, looked at the situation, and asked the guy if he'd been drinking. After a sobriety test, he last I saw of him, he was handcuffed and getting into the cop car!
the last I saw of him....
Missed Oppurtunity , You should have shot him. ; )
Possible attempt to hijack you, possible drug induced psychosis on part of the approacher. Best to get away if possible, if not kill the bastard and wait for the police to arrive. You could be saving more lives than just your own.
I had a friend that one time was stuck in traffic in Houston and had a big black guy get out of his car and cuss him right next to the drivers window side.
My friend had a sawed off 410 shot gun straped to the inside of his roof pointed to the side of the drivers side.
My friend let the guy cuss him for a while and then raised his hand and put it on the shot gun above and pointed to the big guy to take a look.
The guy looked and said to my friend "Damn man, you have yourself a nice day" and got back in his car and drove off. :)
BigMack
Would you feel differently had it been a 78lb 90 year old woman on oxygen and using a walker?
LOL, I think I'd be more concerned by a 78lb 90 year old woman on oxygen and using a walker, since chances are she'd be packing to be talking that much s**t LOL.
If you have a scanner or know somebody in dispatch, it sort of helps when you see how many calls of how many different kinds they get. An assault like this one is cert6ainly legitimate, even if you can't "make" the guy or his vehicle.
And, believe me, I get the shaking thing. I recently had to draw on a guy -- first time in my life -- who was approaching me with a club, threatening language and threatening demeanor. When he saw my pistol he got rid of the club. Conflict more or less over. But I also called 911 and, well it was a complicated incident altogether, but there's a warrant out for felony assault on the guy.
Anyway, I shook for about 4 days, and I'm still angry almost 3 weeks later.
Your situation could have been worse. I had a 180lb black male hit my car in Chicago. When I got out to take a look he stuck a handgun in my face and told me to 'get moving'. I got moving. IMHO you did great under trying circumstances!
If you haven't yet called the cops, I highly recommend you do so, as have others on this thread.
Obviously, he was in the guy's way. He should have known better than to be where the other guy's car was headed. That place in the lane had his name on it, after all. </sarcasm>
The road rage problem is just the latest in a troubling string of increasing selfishness and violence. Expect it to get worse.
I think he handled the situation quite well, under the circumstances. Both are still alive. Everyone wins.
First of all, the rule should be, don't draw your gun unless you are willing to use it, not that you intend to use it. Most of the time it is not necessary to actually fire a gun to end the threat. I would not reccommed shooting someone unless absolutely necessary.
Next if someone has just tried to kill you with their car, and is either much larger or younger etc., you have the right in most places to prepare to defend yourself.
Also it makes a lot of difference in what part of the country you live. My Father caught a guy (he was a friend of my Nephew) stealing his heart medication and chased after him with a .45. Daddy shot out his tires and then called the sheriff. The deputies caught him and took him to jail. This was in rural Florida and the deputy simply told Daddy it would be a good idea next time to just call them instead of shooting out his tires. I suspect that would have been viewed dirrently in most Northeastern States.
"Also it makes a lot of difference in what part of the country you live. My Father caught a guy (he was a friend of my Nephew) stealing his heart medication and chased after him with a .45. Daddy shot out his tires and then called the sheriff. The deputies caught him and took him to jail. This was in rural Florida and the deputy simply told Daddy it would be a good idea next time to just call them instead of shooting out his tires. I suspect that would have been viewed dirrently in most Northeastern States."
Here in Oklahoma we had a similar situation in a rural area where a father & son (both licensed conceal carry) came to the Dad's home in the process of it being burgularized. The burglars fled in a vehicle and Dad and Son proceeded to chase them down country roads. The Dad leaned out of the car like in a western and managed to shoot one of the burglars.
The father was charged with assault with a deadly weapon - and rightfully so. Here you cannot used deadly force to protect property and you definitely cannot engage in a car chase with gunplay. Only the police can do that stichk!
I suspect that your rural Florida person got off because a sheriff (and local DA) didn't want to press charges. In almost all cases, concealed carry permits are only to be used for the purpose of self defense. Chasing a thief is not self defense.
In fact, here it is not called a "concealed carry" permit. It is referred to as a Self Defense Act(SDA) permit; a reference to the title of the law that created the licensing. There are extremely limited circumstances where you can use the weapon.
Here, if you do not draw the weapon with the intent to shoot, then you did not have a valid reason to draw the weapon; you can be charge with assault. You can't use the weapon for any other reason than your own (or immediate families) protection. You can't even legally come to someone's aid using your concealed weapon, except for an employer(or immediate family as mentioned). The law was written to discourage vigilantes and self appointed law enforcers.
A very bad law imo.
I may have not explained my Father's situation very well. He chased the guy out of the house and shot the tires out as he drove off. Never chased him in a car. I doubt if the DA ever got notified of the event.
I flat out do not believe the law in Oklahoma requires you to be in the process of shooting before you are allowed to draw a gun. I don't know the law in Oklahoma but that is just plain stupid. I could understand it in Massachusettes but not Oklahoma.
BTW, Florida is not a "true man" state unless they have changed the law recently, which is a possibility. You are required to retreat unless there is no other option. In the part of the state I live in that is not what is done in actual practice unless the DA for some reason has it in for you.
"I have no clue why this guy behaved the way he did."
Simple...crack don't smoke itself!
"You are required to retreat unless there is no other option."
The same is true here. Unless retreating would put immediate family (wife, children, parents) in jepordy.
You can only lawfully use the weapon to defend yourself, immediate family, or employer. However, you cannot defend a coworker or anyone else. Yes, I agree it is entirely stupid.
Regarding the don't pull(in other words unconceal) the weapon usless you have an immediate need to shoot...well that is the way I was taught at a required course. Obviously, if you drew a weapon and the assailent dropped his (gun, knife, axe, etc.) and ran before you could shoot then you don't need to fire - in fact shooting a feeing person is not allowed. However, you cannot unconceal your weapon without an immediate need to use it (a person drawing a gun on you - raising and axe, etc.). If you were to simply open your coat and show a potential assailent that you are armed - you can be prosecuted for assault.
So, what I was taught was don't pull a pistol until you are ready to fire. Practically speaking, if someone is close enough to you where you are in immediate danger of losing your life, you will just have enough time to draw and fire. Personally, I will do my best to get away from an assailent without shooting. However, if they have a firearm pointed at me in a menacing way, I will take cover (if available) and fire(unless it will endanger others). If it is a knife or axe (etc.) they are going to have to be within 10-20 feet and coming at me fast before I shoot.
I hope I never have to find out. Problem is that even though the law "allows" self defense. The local DA can still prosecute if they choose. So, it better be a slam dunk that you were in mortal peril.
As long as you don't point it at them it's not assault, at least in my state.
I can't speak for the poster, but I wouldn't care what color the person was. I would be scared thank you very much, and if I had a gun with me, I would do the very same thing he did.
It bears repeating that even if you are 100% in the right, legally, when shooting your gun in self defense, you are almost certain to to incur CRUSHING legal bills just to make sure you prove it the right way to the Grand Jury and/or the Court.
There *are* cases where someone shoots in self defense and the police and DA just nod and leave them alone, but most of the time -- even in very clear-cut cases -- they're far more likely to toss it to the Grand Jury, just so that no one (like the dead thug's family, or flaming liberals) will be able to scream that they let someone "get away with murder" without even an investigation in court.
So even leaving aside all the other possible issues, keeping your life savings is a good reason not to shoot in self defense unless you REALLY, ABSOLUTELY have to.
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