Posted on 05/07/2005 8:05:03 AM PDT by churchillbuff
. . . .
Been too much of a battle scared vet of too many
CRUCIFY-RICK-WARREN threads. Peddle it elsewhere.
TRUE! TRUE!
There can be a rush, on the part of churchianity, to whatever the latest successful 'method' is.
But, I think the AGIN'-IT naysaying kneeJERK stuff is much more deeply entrenched in churchianity.
No one here is out to "Crucify" Rick Warren, but only to expose his philosophy. Big difference. Recently, Rick Warren appeared on live national TV on Fox News Channel's "Fox and Friends" program. He was on for approximately 4 minutes, which gave him ample time to explain his views. He never mentioned Jesus Christ or Salvation one single time. That alone is offensive for a man who says he wants to reach the lost.
But, I think the AGIN'-IT naysaying kneeJERK stuff is much more deeply entrenched in churchianity.
AND IT IS EVEN GLORIFIED AND ALMOST WORSHIPPED in churchianity.
I know. I know.
So much of my heart is there.
I would emphasize Jesus more, probably.
But I'm not Rick's Boss. God is. And Rick is greatly successful at the path GOD HAS LAID BEFORE HIM.
Rick believes the basics. Rick teaches the basics. Rick leads 10's of thousands into lasting Salvation relationships with Jesus. I'm not about to throw rocks at that.
I can't imagine God saying anything else but WELL DONE, MY GOOD AND FAITHFUL SERVANT to Rick.
It just struck me
we've been able to maintain a good attitude--I think--toward one another on issues that typically get threads pulled and people banned in a certain other forum.
One big difference is we are not in that forum.
I wonder . . . is that forum afflicted with demonic spirits that pollute virtually everything that goes on there?
Just a thought that went through.
I'm not into hero-worship or idolatry, but if this Rick Warren guy is teaching that the Gospel=the Cross then God-speed; if not,he needs to be hammered!
Norge,
Good question about the assertion that church services are for believers. First, the church is simply the body of Christ. There are no pagans in the body of Christ. Acts 2 tells us "they came together in one accord" (no, this was not a Honda automobile) - meaning they were believers in Jesus. This was pentacost. Keep reading Acts - and the other letters from Paul & Peter - and you will see that lost folk who came to their services (by whatever word you want to use) were saved by the preaching of the Truth. The Apostles did not conform their teaching or doctrine to make it easy for pagan ears to hear. Pagans become saints by hearing hte Truth and being convicted of sin and falling humbly at the feet of the Lamb of God. The only accomodation made for pagans was a "oh, by the way" comment by Paul in 1 Corinthians 14 after he had forcefully told those saints to speak a few clear, understandable words rather than babble in unknown tongues. Verses 21 and following show that by speaking in a known tongue the unchanging Truth of God's Word, lost folk were convicted and fell on their face to worship Christ.
Yes, my own church is "seeker sensitive" and I am earnestly contending for the faith therein.
In all things and all ways, let the Lord God of all creation be our only guide.
I dont even know where to start.
Can you say "Word Faith"? If these "name it and claim it" teachers really believe what they preach, then why do they always have to beg for money?
Tommy, the fact is that in many persecuted countries, the pastors don't even have Bibles, so support Bibles for china and the persecuted church.
I have been to China and I agree with you completely. We do not disagree on this point. My point was that there are many false doctrines out there being taught, and it does no good spread a false doctrine. If it is Truth, I am 100% in favor.
And why didnt KH spend all his life healing babies in the hospital? And his faith in Gods healing powers didnt do him much good when it came time to meet the Maker.
Although I know that God can heal anyone at anytime. I have a feeling much of our healing will come when we shed flesh and blood.
Exactly...
Maybe the book of revelation is WRONG...
Which brings to mind...
What exactly IS a christian.?.
Seems that in America, at least, a christian is a groupie or club member..
The groups(clubs) might be growing exponentially though..
i.e. join a group, get a badge or I.D. card.. You can put kittens in an oven but that don't make them muffins..
Americans don't vote like seekers of TRUTH...
Number of Catholics Rises by 15 Million (Diocesan Priests Increase; Religious Decrease)
Spanish Catholicism still very robust (3 shrines and The Sagrada Familia)
Catholics outsource praying to India
Catholic Priests in India 'Outsourced' to Meet Clergy Shortage in West
Christian Coalition head (in Ala.) becomes Catholic
Church growth continues for Catholic and Pentecostals; six mainline denominations decline
Young people turn against their parents' 'church lite'
Pope calls US Church to repentance and renewal
A father for the 11th time - Widower becomes Catholic priest
Number of Adults Who Don't Attend Church Service Doubles
Huge Christian growth shocks China's leaders
Church Attendance Increased : Protestants have now clearly overtaken Catholics in church attendance
Catholics Trail Protestants in Church Attendance [Gallup]
Church Attendance Linked to Longer Life
Dozens of Episcopalians Follow Leader into Catholic Church
Thousands prepare to join U.S. Catholic Church this Easter
Where Have All the People in the Pews Gone?
More Than 150,000 People to Join Catholic Church Holy Saturday
Spirituality on the rise on college campuses
Analysis: Rome up, Protestantism down?
Benedict's Logic: A Church Contracting & Expanding Simultaneously
CHRISTIANITY EXPLODING WORLDWIDE; 3RD WORLD SENDING MISSIONARIES [V ENCOURAGING DOC]
I find plenty of The Cross and Jesus in Rick's writings.
However, it seems clear to me that he has felt convinced of The Lord that he will be more productive for The Kingdom if he avoids
--with his target population--the unchurched--
if he avoids running around grabbing people by the throat and screaming the 4 spiritual laws etc. while shoving all the THOU SHALTS AND ESPECIALLY THE THOU SHALT NOTS down their throats.
I've been raised by a very abrasive and very direct and very coarse, uncouth, well meaning mother with a heart of gold. And, I've ended up being most of my life intensely direct and confrontive.
I have learned the hard way that not only sometimes but much more often than I'd prefer, the shortest way between two points can be a walk through the woods to grandma's house or at least around the pond a time or two.
I have tended to saddle up to people and if they were Christians expect and virtually demand a 24 year best buddies level of intimacy in the first 5 minutes. That has not worked well very often.
Yes, there is a place for hell fire and brimstone and some do that well led of The Spirit. Rick Warren is not one of those. One size does not fit all as Paul mentioned and Jesus demonstrated.
I used to deplore chit chat and parties. Hated both with a passion. Still not my favorite. But I have learned that many people need tons more chit-chat to feel comfortable enough to move toward vulnerability.
I have to respect that, to some degree and especially initially.
Rick Warren has learned that well. He applies that well. He uses that fact well. And people shred him for it.
Go ahead and go down on main street and wear your sandwich board about the world coming to an end and hell fire falling out of the sky any minute if the passers by don't immediately tack themselves to THE CROSS WITH !!!YOUR!!! HAMMER as you grab them by the throat and hit them about the head and shoulders 7 times with your KJV family Bible that weighs 15lbs.
But avoid being surprised when the white coats come and haul you off. And avoid being surprised if you fail to get more than 1 out of 100,000,000 converts.
Rick Warren has, by God's Grace and Holy Spirit near perfected the 'feed the 5,000' miracle of meeting people's needs and then thereby earning the right to present the solid Gospel. And HE DOES THAT.
I will NOT THROW ROCKS AT THAT.
And, I believe that people who do are earning AT LEAST God's head shake in dismay and some of them God's anger.
I find plenty of The Cross and Jesus in Rick's writings.
However, it seems clear to me that he has felt convinced of The Lord that he will be more productive for The Kingdom if he avoids
--with his target population--the unchurched--
if he avoids running around grabbing people by the throat and screaming the 4 spiritual laws etc. while shoving all the THOU SHALTS AND ESPECIALLY THE THOU SHALT NOTS down their throats.
I've been raised by a very abrasive and very direct and very coarse, uncouth, well meaning mother with a heart of gold. And, I've ended up being most of my life intensely direct and confrontive.
I have learned the hard way that not only sometimes but much more often than I'd prefer, the shortest way between two points can be a walk through the woods to grandma's house or at least around the pond a time or two.
I have tended to saddle up to people and if they were Christians expect and virtually demand a 24 year best buddies level of intimacy in the first 5 minutes. That has not worked well very often.
Yes, there is a place for hell fire and brimstone and some do that well led of The Spirit. Rick Warren is not one of those. One size does not fit all as Paul mentioned and Jesus demonstrated.
I used to deplore chit chat and parties. Hated both with a passion. Still not my favorite. But I have learned that many people need tons more chit-chat to feel comfortable enough to move toward vulnerability.
I have to respect that, to some degree and especially initially.
Rick Warren has learned that well. He applies that well. He uses that fact well. And people shred him for it.
Go ahead and go down on main street and wear your sandwich board about the world coming to an end and hell fire falling out of the sky any minute if the passers by don't immediately tack themselves to THE CROSS WITH !!!YOUR!!! HAMMER as you grab them by the throat and hit them about the head and shoulders 7 times with your KJV family Bible that weighs 15lbs.
But avoid being surprised when the white coats come and haul you off. And avoid being surprised if you fail to get more than 1 out of 100,000,000 converts.
Rick Warren has, by God's Grace and Holy Spirit near perfected the 'feed the 5,000' miracle of meeting people's needs and then thereby earning the right to present the solid Gospel. And HE DOES THAT.
I will NOT THROW ROCKS AT THAT.
And, I believe that people who do are earning AT LEAST God's head shake in dismay and some of them God's anger.
Good. Don't. You won't get anywhere with me on that score anyway.
I don't applaud excesses from any perspective. WOF has plenty of excesses as do ALL the kneejerk rock throwers I've ever been in contact with.
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