Posted on 08/21/2005 6:02:36 AM PDT by CholeraJoe
"Never, ever leave home without it." No, not your American Express card, your sidearm.
This morning, I woke up about 4:15 and was hungry, so I decided to drive to the local 24-hour beanery. The only other customers were a table of 10, intoxicated 20-somethings making alot of noise.
There were 7 muscular young men and three loud-mouthed young women. After listening to their raucous laughter for 10 minutes, I politely asked the waitress to ask them to hold down the noise. All I wanted to do was eat my breakfast in relative peace.
Her request for quiet lasted about 45 seconds, then the noise and laughter resumed. At that point, I decided to do something.
Bear in mind that I am not an imposing figure. I'm 5'9", mid 50's, and slim. I walked over to the table, and walked completely around it twice. I said, "I'd like y'all to hold down the noise for a while, please." One of the young men started to give me trash-talk but within seconds was elbowed by the guy next to him, who whispered something in his ear. Then everyone at the table said, "Yes, sir, or OK."
What made the difference? Open carry. I was wearing a 9mm semi-auto on my right hip. I never touched it and I made no threats, but it was nevertheless visible.
Okay, at a glance, it looks like you've got me on the numbers. But I think our youth crime is much higher than theirs. At any rate, I don't want to get into a back-and-forth, just let me apologize for being wrong...and insisting I was right. Thanks.
If I were CJ, I'd beg a moderator to pull this tread if this has any truth to it.
I am skeptical about CJ's judgment in this case, but I wasn't there. I support his right to be armed and I expect that he will think quite a bit about whether or not he could have made better choices.
Nonetheless, it is so very easy for us to criticize after the fact when we were not at the scene.
I think CJ has learned a valuable lesson about modern communications and discretion.
I'd love to hear the version from one of the kids who CholeraJoe threatened.
MOST of the people on this thread have agreed that he exhibited very poor judgement. MANY of the people on this thread have said that he behaved this way because of some, shall we say, compensatory need.
And CJ himself has been caught up in several lies already.
I stand by punk liar, but I'm willing to compromise and go with liar punk.
I bet you Jim Robinson would comply with a subpeona from a Montana prosecutor.
;)
I think it was a felony, even under CJ's own narrative. I'm assuming as true his own story.
As I said, I would have just hollered over to them and asked them to keep the noise down. Doesn't matter if he was taller or had any hair. He didn't mention what he was wearing, although it might add something to the story.
How CJ handled the situation was wrong.
Pumped two glasers into his skull. That's self-defense isn't it?
You have no business carrying a gun. An armed person has an obligation to avoid confrontations. If people are being rude and "in your face" that is not reason enough to shoot them. Self defense is protecting yourself against harm and it is not about showing how tough you are if you are being disrespected or inconvenienced.
Some years ago I not only realized that life is unfair, I realized that I did not have a right to expect life to be fair! Sometimes people are rude. I wish people were always polite but no one is polite all of the time and some people are never polite. That's just the way people are. So I try to avoid rude people but if someone is rude to me I consider it his problem and don't let it become my problem. I might tell him that I don't appreciate his rude behavior. I don't go around expecting that out of everyone who as ever lived, I am somehow "special" in that no one will ever inconvenience me or be rude to me. Just having a gun does not make me any more "special" than the next guy, either.
Some people are dishonest. I avoid dealing with people I know to be dishonest. If I have to deal with someone, I might test him in some minor matter to see how trustworthy he is. I wish people were always honest, but I would be a fool to expect that everyone I encounter is honest. I would be a fool if I were to walk around saying, "Woe is me! So-and-so defrauded me. How can I live in such an unfair world?" The few times someone has been dishonest to me in a big way I considered what legal recourse I had (and whether or not it was worth it) and I examined the situation and my own decisions to learn how to avoid such problems in the future. If people were more afraid of me, they might treat me better. But I would rather deal with honest people than rely on the fact that I could intimidate a dishonest person.
Some months ago I was grocery shopping and when I walked out of the store, I saw a person acting kind of strangely in the parking lot. He seemed to be loitering around and I wondered if he was looking to break into a car or maybe even rob someone. Oh, I happened to have a gun in my pocket but I did a quick cost-benefit analysis and decided it would be better for me to just watch him from the sidewalk rather than go to my car. Finally the person left the area. If he had stayed a little longer, I would have called the police. If he had attacked someone and the police weren't there, I would have intervened. Maybe he was looking to commit a crime. Maybe he was lost. Maybe he was drunk and walking slowly because of that. I don't know. I do know that it was worth it for me to be cautious and observe the situation rather than just bluster in because I had a gun.
I figured out a long time ago that I have room enough to carry a chip on my shoulder and I have room enough to carry a gun, but I don't have room enough for both.
Very skillful slapdown/support remark--LOL. Lawyer?
I have no way of knowing which jurisdiction this offense was committed in.
"I find it amazing that so many people who weren't there are so willing to assume so many things about the facts and character of people that they don't know."
There's a great book called BLINK, about how most snap judgements are actually very...right. CJ told us more about himself than he ever would have guessed, in his post. The majority of responders are with me, which is not to say that we are right, per se, but that we came away with an impression different than yours, apparently.
I can't leave this alone.
Been tryin to let it go by all morning but just have to say something.
Loud AHs in restaurants is a personel pet peeve of mine. However, You committed a real crime in response to their social faux pas. They were AHs. You oughta be brought up on charges for reckless endangerment of everyone in that restaurant that morning.
If one of those drunk kids had drawn down on you and bullets flew, killing and or injuring god knows how many kids or waiters or cooks or other patrons .... given you were still breathing ... you'd get 20 years. Maybe life.
You are stupid stupid man.
Actually, its far worse than that. This entire thread is hearsay. It's admissible hearsay, however, insofar as his narrative of events is a statment against his penal interest.
So, he can't use this statement to help himself (self-serving out-of-court statements are inadmissible), but the prosecutor can ram it down his throat.
All right, I will bite. Name three lies that he has been caught in on this thread.
"Bad boys Bad Boys
Whatcha gonna do?
Whatcha gonna do when they come for you??"
Rregardless of the numbers, when one is in the wrong place at the wrong time....another statistic is generated.
What gets my goat is those that think crime happens only to "Those Other Folks"....and in other cities and other countries....
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