Never, Ever Leave home without It.

Real Life | 8/21/2005 | CholeraJoe

[CholeraJoe]

"Never, ever leave home without it." No, not your American Express card, your sidearm.

This morning, I woke up about 4:15 and was hungry, so I decided to drive to the local 24-hour beanery. The only other customers were a table of 10, intoxicated 20-somethings making alot of noise.

There were 7 muscular young men and three loud-mouthed young women. After listening to their raucous laughter for 10 minutes, I politely asked the waitress to ask them to hold down the noise. All I wanted to do was eat my breakfast in relative peace.

Her request for quiet lasted about 45 seconds, then the noise and laughter resumed. At that point, I decided to do something.

Bear in mind that I am not an imposing figure. I'm 5'9", mid 50's, and slim. I walked over to the table, and walked completely around it twice. I said, "I'd like y'all to hold down the noise for a while, please." One of the young men started to give me trash-talk but within seconds was elbowed by the guy next to him, who whispered something in his ear. Then everyone at the table said, "Yes, sir, or OK."

What made the difference? Open carry. I was wearing a 9mm semi-auto on my right hip. I never touched it and I made no threats, but it was nevertheless visible.

[CIB-173RDABN]

Nonetheless, it is so very easy for us to criticize after the fact when we were not at the scene.

---

Excuse me, but CJ started this thread. He posted the story, and the critical comments are based on the facts presented by CJ himself. If the facts are as he has stated, he showed very poor judgement.

I am not sure what your complaint is, this is after all a discussion forum. CJ posted a topic for discussion.

[Willie Green]

But....you never even mentioned a choo-choo in that post.

Well the light at the end of the tunnel ain't the end of the tunnel, that's fer sure.
I've outsmarted myself and painted myself into a corner.
It all started several days ago when I decided that the blade needed sharpening...
Then when I pulled the blade, I proudly anounced that I needed to go to Home Depot to get a replacement instead...
Then, instead of firing up the mower first thing this morning when it was cool,
I figured I should rake all the pine needles out of the front before they get chopped up because they don't mulch and decompose as well as grass clippings. (I raked up two wheelbarrow loads, so I suppose it must've needed it. At least the yard should have less of a brownish tinge to it anyway.)

But now it's past noon and the sun is really beating down.

I'm DOOMED.

Nowhere to run to, baby
Nowhere to hide
Got nowhere to run to, baby
Nowhere to hide

It's not love
I'm running from
It's the heartaches
That I know will come

Nowhere to run
Nowhere to hide
Got nowhere to run to, baby
Nowhere to hide

[Wilhelm Tell]

Open carry is LEGAL in his state....right? If so, how can this be considered brandishing?

I am no lawyer, but consider if it is legal for you to openly carry a gun and you approach someone and you keep walking around that person and maybe stare at that person without saying a word. You could be charged with committing an act of violence or the threat of violence without saying a word and even if the other party started it. Heck, you could even be charged with threatening behavior even if you did not have a gun and didn't say anything threatening if you are approaching people in an unwise way. There are laws against threatening and menacing. I think in all jurisdictions, the armed person is held to a higher standard of behavior. You are supposed to be extra cautious even though it is inconvenient and even if you lose face. An armed person has the obligation to use extra common sense at all times.

[Mr. Mojo]

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[cbkaty]

There's a difference between open-carry and flaunting the firearm to enforce your noise preferences.

OK....let me search the Penal Codes for "flaunting........"....Back later....

[cbkaty]

That doesn't offend me at all. Circling the table of some noisy kids to give them a good look at the gun while "politely" asking them to be quiet does.

One must admit that there were no shots fired, no one was injured, no pistol was drawn, everyone had a good breakfast...so what's the problem...

I know...well..cbkaty, "Just think of what could have happened?"

We could go & on for weeks about what could have happened..the fact is..nothing happened.

[marktwain]

Complements on your last post, #403.

[cbkaty]

the armed person is held to a higher standard of behavior.

I absolutely agree.....and expect others that carry to understand this higher standard.

[Nathan Zachary]

Yet.

Sometimes they take their sweet time executing arrest warrants. But I do notice we haven't heard from CJ in a while...

Lets hope for his sake that nothing happens. The story here is even though we have carry rights, we have to be darn carefull.

[hiredhand]

Precisely! Then whada-ya do?

Bunch of annoying loud drunks! :-) So long as there was a clear path to the door, and no persent danger, then leaving the facility would have been the correct choice.

I know places where walking TWO full circles around the table, showing off yer little pistol will get the gun taken from you, and your ass kicked as well. Especially by some big redneck who has his girl there with him.

This probably didn't happen because they thought he was a LEO.

I've been in some DANGEROUS situations involving firearms. I've been shot at, but (thankfully!) never struck. I think this little recount shows poor judgement, or lack of experience with the ability to impart deadly force, and the proper attitude that should accompany such ability.

...just my .02 though. ...glad nobody was hurt and everybody was polite anyway. :-)

[cbkaty]

The story here is even though we have carry rights, we have to be darn carefull.

Frankly....one's normal life is basically over if they use deadly force without a clear deadly threat to them or their loved ones....there is no margin for error... One cannot call back a fired round....

I have had my CCW since 1995 and have never had to remove my firearm from its holster...I must admit there were times that I was glad I had it in my possession though......

[Squantos]

Well we all know about opinions now don't we.....:o)

Cholera Joe was there....his decision, he was open carry, he didn't draw it an threaten, they just saw it and assumed.

Now that all said and the armed chair QB'n starting he could have flashed his open carry from where he was an just do "the look" and probably had the same results. If he felt "brave" to engage 10 drunks then IMHO he had a error in good judgement.

Bottom line I wasn't there , he was. I don't go armed where I wouldn't go unarmed these days but as we all know it is the CHL or open carry persons responsibility to descalate the situation if at all possible.......

That's my opinion only with respects to Joe who made the best decision he thought plausable at the time.....after thought is easy.

Stay safe ya'll and Thanks Joe for sharing this incident so we can all learn from it. Good or bad we learned something.

[marktwain]

Excellent post, Sqantos. I suspect a lot of people have learned quite a bit from this thread.

[Squantos]

I am no lawyer, but consider if it is legal for you to openly carry a gun and you approach someone and you keep walking around that person and maybe stare at that person without saying a word. You could be charged with committing an act of violence or the threat of violence without saying a word and even if the other party started it.

Ya start with a simple walk and look comment with open carry and then get into a who started it scenario......???

Your assumption (or my interpretation of yer post) that a mean look while open carry is a chargeable offense ??

[Nathan Zachary]

A agree. He was begging for it. I know I don't respond well to people trying to intimidate me. And no half pint with a gun scares me either.

[SLB]

Well thought out and articulated response. You are correct, CJ was there, we were not. His actions might have been totally different in the same type of situation but with a different "atmosphere" in place.

[CIB-173RDABN]

Now that all said and the armed chair QB'n starting he could have flashed his open carry from where he was an just do "the look" and probably had the same results.

---

Squantos, please elaborate on your complaint about "armed chair QB".

This is a discussion forum, that is what we do.

It is your opinion that CJ did nothing wrong. Ok. Others (such as myself) based on the facts he presented think he showed poor judgment, and have said so.

What I don’t understand is the comment about “armed chair QB”. Have I been misinformed what this forum is? Are we not suppose to state our opinions?

[Squantos]

We have extensive systems and capabilities in our world yet the weakest link in each is the human being. The best thing we can all do is share our goofs or successes so that others can learn from em. One reason these threads are so good IMO.

Anyone who says they have never made a mistake or have nothing left to learn is a fool to be avoided.

Stay safe !!

[cbkaty]

And no half pint with a gun scares me either.

As the great Ronaudus Magnus would say, "There you go again!"

Why does his size have anything whatsoever to do with this? Your statement is simply an ad hominem attack.

[standing united]

Certainly! But, CJ was not given the benefit of hindsight. You know the saying, hindsight is 20/20. That is what I was saying.

I have had to act in a split second on several occasions. I also made some mistakes, and thank God it did not cost me or my buddies their lives, and constructive criticism is important so I don't make that same mistake again.

I always try to remember, that, we have that benefit of hindsight - CJ did not. People will except criticism better if we also look at it from his perspective too.

Thanks for the post