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Unrest Intensifies at Superdome Shelter
AP ^ | 9/1/05 | ADAM NOSSITER

Posted on 09/01/2005 10:37:44 AM PDT by NotchJohnson

Unrest Intensifies at Superdome Shelter Sep 01 12:56 PM US/Eastern

By ADAM NOSSITER Associated Press Writer


Fights and trash fires broke out at the hot and stinking Superdome and anger and unrest mounted across New Orleans on Thursday, as National Guardsmen in armored vehicles poured in to help restore order across the increasingly lawless and desperate city.

"We are out here like pure animals. We don't have help," the Rev. Issac Clark, 68, said outside the New Orleans Convention Center, where corpses lay in the open and evacuees complained that they were dropped off and given nothing.

An additional 10,000 National Guard troops from across the country were ordered into the hurricane-ravaged Gulf Coast to shore up security, rescue and relief operations in Katrina's wake as looting, shootings, gunfire, carjackings and other lawlessness spread.

That brought the number of troops dedicated to the effort to more than 28,000, in what may be the biggest military response to a natural disaster in U.S. history.

"The truth is, a terrible tragedy like this brings out the best in most people, brings out the worst in some people," said Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour on NBC's "Today" show. "We're trying to deal with looters as ruthlessly as we can get our hands on them."

The Superdome, where some 25,000 people were being evacuated by bus to the Houston Astrodome, descended into chaos.

Huge crowds, hoping to finally escape the stifling confines of the stadium, jammed the main concourse outside the dome, spilling out over the ramp to the Hyatt hotel next door _ a seething sea of tense, unhappy, people packed shoulder-to-shoulder up to the barricades where heavily armed National Guardsmen stood.

Fights broke out. A fire erupted in a trash chute inside the dome, but a National Guard commander said it did not affect the evacuation.

Outside the Convention Center, the sidewalks were packed with people without food, water or medical care, and with no sign of law enforcement. Thousands of storm refugees had been assembling outside for days, waiting for buses that did not come.

At least seven bodies were scattered outside, and hungry, desperate people who were tired of waiting broke through the steel doors to a food service entrance and began pushing out pallets of water and juice and whatever else they could find.

An old man in a chaise lounge lay dead in a grassy median as hungry babies wailed around him. Around the corner, an elderly woman lay dead in her wheelchair, covered up by a blanket, and another body lay beside her wrapped in a sheet.

"I don't treat my dog like that," 47-year-old Daniel Edwards said as he pointed at the woman in the wheelchair. "I buried my dog." He added: "You can do everything for other countries but you can't do nothing for your own people. You can go overseas with the military but you can't get them down here."

Just above the convention center on Interstate 10, commercial buses were lined up, going nowhere. The street outside the center, above the floodwaters, smelled of urine and feces, and was choked with dirty diapers, old bottles and garbage.

"They've been teasing us with buses for four days," Edwards said.

People chanted, "Help, help!" as reporters and photographers walked through. The crowd got angry when journalists tried to photograph one of the bodies, and covered it over with a blanket. A woman, screaming, went on the front steps of the convention center and led the crowd in reciting the 23rd Psalm.

John Murray, 52, said: "It's like they're punishing us."

The first of hundreds of busloads of people evacuated from the Superdome arrived early Thursday at their new temporary home _ another sports arena, the Houston Astrodome, 350 miles away.

But the ambulance service in charge of taking the sick and injured from the Superdome suspended flights after a shot was reported fired at a military helicopter. Richard Zuschlag, chief of Acadian Ambulance, said it had become too dangerous for his pilots.

The military, which was overseeing the removal of the able-bodied by buses, continued the ground evacuation without interruption, said National Guard Lt. Col. Pete Schneider. The government had no immediate confirmation of whether a military helicopter was fired on.

In Texas, the governor's office said Texas has agreed to take in an additional 25,000 refugees from Katrina and plans to house them in San Antonio, though exactly where has not been determined.

In Washington, the White House said President Bush will tour the devastated Gulf Coast region on Friday and has asked his father, former President George H.W. Bush, and former President Clinton to lead a private fund-raising campaign for victims.

The president urged a crackdown on the lawlessness.

"I think there ought to be zero tolerance of people breaking the law during an emergency such as this _ whether it be looting, or price gouging at the gasoline pump, or taking advantage of charitable giving or insurance fraud," Bush said. "And I've made that clear to our attorney general. The citizens ought to be working together."

On Wednesday, Mayor Ray Nagin offered the most startling estimate yet of the magnitude of the disaster: Asked how many people died in New Orleans, he said: "Minimum, hundreds. Most likely, thousands." The death toll has already reached at least 110 in Mississippi.

If the estimate proves correct, it would make Katrina the worst natural disaster in the United States since at least the 1906 San Francisco earthquake and fire, which was blamed for anywhere from about 500 to 6,000 deaths. Katrina would also be the nation's deadliest hurricane since 1900, when a storm in Galveston, Texas, killed between 6,000 and 12,000 people.

Nagin called for a total evacuation of New Orleans, saying the city had become uninhabitable for the 50,000 to 100,000 who remained behind after the city of nearly a half-million people was ordered cleared out over the weekend, before Katrina blasted the Gulf Coast with 145-mph winds.

The mayor said that it will be two or three months before the city is functioning again and that people would not be allowed back into their homes for at least a month or two.

"We need an effort of 9-11 proportions," former New Orleans Mayor Marc Morial, now president of the Urban League, said on NBC's "Today" show. "So many of the people who did not evacuate, could not evacuate for whatever reason. They are people who are African-American mostly but not completely, and people who were of little or limited economic means. They are the folks, we've got to get them out of there."

"A great American city is fighting for its life," he added. "We must rebuild New Orleans, the city that gave us jazz, and music, and multiculturalism."

With New Orleans sinking deeper into desperation, Nagin ordered virtually the entire police force to abandon search-and-rescue efforts Wednesday and stop the increasingly brazen thieves.

"They are starting to get closer to heavily populated areas _ hotels, hospitals, and we're going to stop it right now," Nagin said.

In a sign of growing lawlessness, Tenet HealthCare Corp. asked authorities late Wednesday to help evacuate a fully functioning hospital in Gretna after a supply truck carrying food, water and medical supplies was held up at gunpoint.

The floodwaters streamed into the city's streets from two levee breaks near Lake Pontchartrain a day after New Orleans thought it had escaped catastrophic damage from Katrina. The floodwaters covered 80 percent of the city, in some areas 20 feet deep, in a reddish-brown soup of sewage, gasoline and garbage.

The Army Corps of Engineers said it planned to use heavy-duty Chinook helicopters to drop 15,000-pound bags of sand and stone into a 500- foot gap in the failed floodwall.

But the agency said it was having trouble getting the sandbags and dozens of 15-foot highway barriers to the site because the city's waterways were blocked by loose barges, boats and large debris.

Lt. Gov. Mitch Landrieu toured the stricken areas said said rescued people begged him to pass information to their families. His pocket was full of scraps of paper on which he had scribbled down their phone numbers.

When he got a working phone in the early morning hours Thursday, he contacted a woman whose father had been rescued and told her: "Your daddy's alive, and he said to tell you he loves you."

"She just started crying. She said, `I thought he was dead,'" he said.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: fights; katrina; neworleans; superdome; urbanbarbarians
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To: warchild9

If the primary consideration in 2008 is going to be the "sheer hatred that a goodly proportion of Americans have for the Witch Queen," then why even nominate Giuliani at all when some plain old guy with a WASP name and a southern drawl would do just fine?

251 posted on 09/01/2005 12:47:39 PM PDT by Alberta's Child (I ain't got a dime, but what I got is mine. I ain't rich, but Lord I'm free.)
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To: Alberta's Child

As I said above--Guiliani is colorful. The race would be interesting. The media would tie themselves in knots making excuses. It would be like the Clinton days all over again.

The last was a boring non-race. Did anyone really think the Electoral College was going to let Frankenstein and Igor win?

252 posted on 09/01/2005 12:50:01 PM PDT by warchild9
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To: HamiltonJay

and if the civilians are prosecuted for looting, Jessie jackson will be there screaming racism.

GWBush declared disaster area before the storm hit.

GWBush has responded to release the oil reserves.

GWBush has mobilized the military and positioned them before the storm hit.


The Mayor of NO has only sanctioned looting.
The Mayor of NO has only fed the panic of the people.
The Mayor of NO has not THOUGHT to get boats out and food out.


While there is a tiger at the gates the Gov of LA is making sacrifices at the temple.

YET the MSM blames Bush.

253 posted on 09/01/2005 12:51:43 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE!)
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To: warchild9
we'll be looking at President Witch Queen in '08. //I warned everyone about the consequences of $3 a gallon gasoline, regardless of reasons for the price hikes.

You should stop acting like you're smart...cause you sure don't seem to be...true Conservatives are PRAYING that Hillary runs in '08....the gas price war is forcing the people to make a you have to ask yourself..what is that decision??...and here is a has nothing to do with politics.....

254 posted on 09/01/2005 12:58:26 PM PDT by Getsmart64
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To: Modernman
Anybody dumb enough to vacation in NO got what they deserve...

Another idiot newbie chimes in.

I have to agree....wanna get drunk and listen to music...just do it at home...much cheaper...why go all the way to NO...'esp if you're over the age of 30...

255 posted on 09/01/2005 1:01:30 PM PDT by Getsmart64
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To: NotchJohnson
...evacuees complained that they were dropped off and given nothing.

Hey evacuees - you're welcome. Maybe the roof was more comfortable?
256 posted on 09/01/2005 1:01:35 PM PDT by AD from SpringBay (We have the government we allow and deserve.)
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To: HamiltonJay

Do you always yell?

There is a 3 star general who is now in charge of military relief coordination in the region. The NG will soon move in with job of securing a departure zone. They will move that ring out, by force if needed, eventually.

Despite the fact that people are dying it is a worrisome and grave decision to give the NG the authority to used deadly force against the citizenry. I'm not saying it isn't justified, but I am saying that it should not be a snap decision, and it is a decision to be taken with the utmost caution.

Before such order can be given I believe they need to have sufficient troops on site to back up the security teams. What is needed is overwhelming force to create a secure perimeter. The troops are on their way.

While it is quite clear that some (many?) problems have arisen in the handling of this situation, it is also true that the devastation unleashed by Katrina is of such magnitude that there was and is no way to adequately prepare for such an event. Screaming at me about the incompetence of the mayor & governor is doing nothing to save lives or improve the lives of those who have escaped. My advice: Save it for later. There will be a time for reckoning, but that time is not now.

257 posted on 09/01/2005 1:01:55 PM PDT by BlueNgold (Feed the Tree .....)
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To: NotchJohnson

Does anyone know what countrys have offered to help the city of New Orleans and other areas hit by the storm?

258 posted on 09/01/2005 1:02:04 PM PDT by ElRushbo (Harley Riders against Elton John)
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Comment #259 Removed by Moderator

To: Getsmart64

" Bush has every right to call out the guard...only difference between the NG and AD is the guard guys swear an oath to the guv and not just the prez..."

The media hears the word " National " and they assume that President Bush directs the Louisiana National Guard .
I wonder if Governor Blanco realizes that she controls the Louisiana NG and not President Bush.
Every time I see her on tv she looks bewildered and helpless and acts like she is waiting for President Bush to take control.
Anyone know the command structure of the other state guard units coming in to help ?
I hope Gov Blanco is completely excised from that chain of command.

260 posted on 09/01/2005 1:06:52 PM PDT by Wild Irish Rogue
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To: warchild9

Oh have a PhD!!.....hmm..maybe you are lying about that PhD...or you really should go get your money back...

261 posted on 09/01/2005 1:07:05 PM PDT by Getsmart64
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To: conserv13
We're not a Christian nation, and historically we have not acted like it.

That has to be one of the most il-informed comments I have ever read. Try reading what our founders wrote themselves about their reasons for the way they set up this country and about their fears if we lost our Christianity and the effect they foresaw it would have on our freedoms. Historically we have acted like a Christian nation over and over and over again, but now that we are loosing our Christian roots things are changing.

262 posted on 09/01/2005 1:07:32 PM PDT by Lady Heron
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To: onemoretimeuntothebreech

I would like to donate some money to the Hurricane victims. Does anyone know of a good charity to give to? I want to give to an organization whose director isn't driving a Porsche and working behind an OAK desk. I want my money to go to the people.

263 posted on 09/01/2005 1:07:51 PM PDT by ElRushbo (Harley Riders against Elton John)
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To: onemoretimeuntothebreech

Keep country will EVER be prepared for large scale emergencies....

264 posted on 09/01/2005 1:09:12 PM PDT by Getsmart64
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To: BlueNgold

No, I don't always yell.. in fact I rarely yell... HOWEVER in this situation, YELLING is more than justified.

It does not take 4 days to coordinate getting WATER to survivors that went where YOU TOOK THEM, AND TOLD THEM TO GO! Its one thing if you can't get to them, but the Convention center is clearly accessible!!!

It doesn't take 4 days to get enough personelle to secure a perimeter around the Superdome and Convention Center!... And in fact, its been about 7 days since there were several days warning BEFORE the storm hit that it was going to be a doozy!

People are going to die in these types of events, no matter what... however the complete INCOMPETENCE of the NO Mayor and LA Governor has lead to far far more deaths that mother nature alone would have caused! They did not take this threat seriously, did NOT have contingency plans and planning in place before hand, and have been completely innept post fact doing the most basic of things!

I do not remotely underestimate the herculean task that needs to be done, but securing beacheads and getting basic neccessities does not take 4-5 days of planning! Airlifting/trucking in troops to secure the 2 sites and then getting trucks of water to them one way or another is an operation that should be able to be started in a FEW HOURS... yet 4 DAYS AFTER THE FACT STILL NOTHING!!

Corrupt governments, incompetent leaders... Army Corps of engineers has a plan of action to repair the levies in HOURS... The state and city have NOTHING after 4 days.

I will NEVER EVER EVER live in a state with a female Governor... she has shown absolutely NO leadership throughout any of this, and the mayor of NO is even worse than her.

There is no doubt, ordering shoot to kill is a serious decision, but allowing a situation like this to further decend into chaos for 4 days, because you don't have the mental capacity, or testicular fortitude to make the call is no excuse for not making the decision.

You lose order, and the death toll is ALWAYS higher in the end! The decision should have been made day 1, when it was clear that the looting was not just folks trying to survive doing it. They didn't take a stand now, and because of that, it is going to be 10 times worse now.


265 posted on 09/01/2005 1:12:12 PM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: warchild9
Please note, I only try to sound elitist to rile folks, but I think there's just a lot of dumb and rude people out there.

So you're saying you like to play games over something as serious as Katrina??'re sick...

266 posted on 09/01/2005 1:12:39 PM PDT by Getsmart64
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To: HamiltonJay

Well then all I can say is that I suggest when all of this is over you move to NO and run for mayor.

267 posted on 09/01/2005 1:13:58 PM PDT by BlueNgold (Feed the Tree .....)
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To: warchild9
I don't know who you are...or what kind of game you are trying to play...well..I do but that isn't a discussion for this board....instead of sitting here thinking you are smarter than everyone else...why don't you do something productive??....and I think you are a flat out liar calling yourself a Doctor and proclaiming to be a "professional military historian" thinks that part is in your mind...if you have a thinks you fell thru the the many cracks in todays educational many of your guidance counselors told you they were going to pass you even tho you failed because they didn't want to hurt your feelings of self esteem??...prob on a regular basis....
268 posted on 09/01/2005 1:25:57 PM PDT by Getsmart64
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To: Roses0508

If they are your family...why didn't you go get them?

269 posted on 09/01/2005 1:27:41 PM PDT by Getsmart64
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Comment #270 Removed by Moderator

Comment #271 Removed by Moderator

To: RightWhale

It's all a cycle. They were poor. Their parents were poor. It is tough to get out and teh govt doesn't help.

272 posted on 09/01/2005 1:39:39 PM PDT by NotchJohnson
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To: BlueNgold

So what is the rationalle behind shooting the people to help you? The only explanation would be that they like how things are (crime is everywhere) and they want to keep the gravy train going.

273 posted on 09/01/2005 1:41:04 PM PDT by NotchJohnson
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To: HamiltonJay

They don't want to offend their core constituency of voters. No Looters Left Behind!.

274 posted on 09/01/2005 1:41:58 PM PDT by chris1 ("Make the other guy die for his country" - George S. Patton, Jr.)
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To: Wild Irish Rogue

No...the prez controls the guard....the prez ordered the guard units into Iraq...not the guvs...the prez will not step on a guvs toes in a natural disaster unless he has to..

275 posted on 09/01/2005 1:42:33 PM PDT by Getsmart64
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To: onemoretimeuntothebreech

Ok...just to be in your mindset...if something bigger had happened after would have been asking why DIDN'T we have a Dept of Homeland Security??? can you prepare for something that you don't know is going to happen??...people live in their own little worlds...'til that day comes crashing down...then it's woe is me..hep me hep me...

276 posted on 09/01/2005 1:49:14 PM PDT by Getsmart64
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To: NotchJohnson

Yeah, I know. Herbert Spencer had some to say about that. Takes about four generations to get free of it. It's possible in two generations in America if everything goes right. Everything isn't going right in a lot of metropolitan areas and the problem won't go away by itself. I think we can do a lot better than what the Dem machines in those areas have been doing without buying into their philosophy.

277 posted on 09/01/2005 1:52:45 PM PDT by RightWhale (Cloudy, 31 degrees, frost, wind <5 knots in Fairbanks)
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To: Getsmart64
We volunteered to do so - put them on airplanes whatever - you've obviously never had cajun relatives, have you? They are not easy to move - bulldozers and dynamite might be effective.

None of them were willing to leave. They were very afraid that if they left the house it would be looted. Some have evacuate before and then had to wait for days/weeks until the government would let them back home. If you've lived all your life in a house, living somewhere else seems impossible to a person of that age. I know it doesn't make sense to younger people, but I've dealt with it a great deal lately as my parents and their generation have aged and died.

In fact the Breaugh house survived the hurricane with little damage despite its age - was flooded when the levee breached.

We'd very much like to go search for them now, but have been warned repeatedly that there is no gasoline and that we would not be allowed into those areas - most still have 24 hour curfews.

There is trouble in Baton Rouge also. We are contemplating removing the cousins there - we think we could haul enough gas to make the trip. We are told it is at least 3 hours to the nearest available gas from Baton Rouge.

I don't know where you are from, but storms are accepted as a part of life and since most of the time you suffer only minor damage, you become immune to the threat.
278 posted on 09/01/2005 1:56:48 PM PDT by Roses0508 (Democracy does not guarantee equality of conditions - it only guarantees equality of opportunity.)
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To: Roses0508

It's understandable. There's quite a history there, and in their place I probably wouldn't budge either.

279 posted on 09/01/2005 2:07:37 PM PDT by RightWhale (Cloudy, 31 degrees, frost, wind <5 knots in Fairbanks)
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Comment #280 Removed by Moderator

To: warchild9

'We're talking about the frigging Gulf Coast here.'

You are talking about a friggin hurricane as well. Roads swollen with civilian refugee traffic. Ever flown helicopters in a hurricane? Thought not, nobody does. Where are you getting your fuel? Your 48 hours is a pipedream.

'The National Guard is for protection of the United States, not foreign countries and international corporations'

Sure thing Cindy.

281 posted on 09/01/2005 3:21:18 PM PDT by xone
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To: Getsmart64

'only difference between the NG and AD is the guard guys swear an oath to the guv and not just the prez...'

You are well informed.

282 posted on 09/01/2005 3:23:39 PM PDT by xone
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To: warchild9

"Only an idiot counters scenes of people dying in the streets with "liberals," or any other mindless FR cliche: MSM/Clinton/blah blah blah.

Fact is, we got military help into the tsunami area within 48 hours, and $100,000,000 of MY money (and yours) on the spot in days.

The intellectual level of FR has fallen into the sink."

Actually your mind is a cesspool.

We were there but the scope of this was beyond the imagination of any. Perhaps you need to READ the NEWS and COMPREHEND what has gone on or spend your time at a liberal forum - your mindset is identical to theirs.

283 posted on 09/01/2005 3:24:32 PM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: NotchJohnson
So what is the rationalle behind shooting the people to help you? The only explanation would be that they like how things are (crime is everywhere) and they want to keep the gravy train going.

Agreed. Thus my reference (on either this thread or another) that referenced those who seek their own little 'thunderdome'.

284 posted on 09/01/2005 6:42:43 PM PDT by BlueNgold (Feed the Tree .....)
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To: wbill
True, but at what point do you start looking for another way out? I may have missed my mark, but walking is always an option, if you're able bodied. Or do you sit there and do nothing?

Apparently only today did the Mayor of NO announce that people could walk out -- up until recently people were not allowed to go where they wanted to go once they arrived at the Superdome. Remember a couple of days ago it was a big deal when the folks controlling the Superdome decided to let some of the people inside sleep outside. Obviously many people can't walk out now. Without water in 90 degree weather your range is pretty limited - particularly for elderly and children.

The strong and able bodied should be helping out whatever way they can, but the essential decision point still remains -- if the government rescue effort is failing at what point, and to what extent do you take things into your own hands? When do you stop cooperating ("line up here for buses") and start just doing what you think is the right thing to do ("That lady needs to get help now, we need a car or truck to move her in. Take that one")

I think we all agree that anyone involved in disaster relief wants the first circumstance, not the second. So does everybody else.

285 posted on 09/02/2005 8:42:00 AM PDT by freeandfreezing (
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To: xone

The National Guard exists to protect the United States.

You exist to echo Rush Limbaugh, who's very cranky now that he can't get his illegal drugs.

286 posted on 09/02/2005 3:00:31 PM PDT by warchild9
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To: nmh

Does your mother know you're skipping your classes?

287 posted on 09/02/2005 3:01:16 PM PDT by warchild9
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To: Antoninus

Hehehe.....that's why he wanted you to look it up. So you could correct his spelling! And he's supposed to be a college teach. No wonder the kids aren't learning anything but liberalism.

288 posted on 09/02/2005 5:21:16 PM PDT by XenaLee
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To: warchild9

"Does your mother know you're skipping your classes?"

Son, if I were your mother, I'd wash your fowl mouth out with soap.

289 posted on 09/02/2005 7:57:33 PM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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