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Arab Women Shun Bush Confidante (Karen Hughes)
The Telegraph (UK) ^ | 9-30-2005 | Francis Harris

Posted on 09/29/2005 5:55:51 PM PDT by blam

Arab women shun Bush confidante

By Francis Harris in Washington
(Filed: 30/09/2005)

A confidante and former chief image-maker to President George W Bush has discovered the limits of the spin doctor's art on her first tour of the Islamic world.

Karen Hughes, the new US under-secretary for public diplomacy, was told by professional women in Saudi Arabia and Turkey that she and America failed to understand them. Her tour had been designed to underline the Bush administration's new commitment to improving its image in Muslim countries.

Speaking to women in the Saudi city of Jeddah, the former television reporter who is a long-standing member of Mr Bush's inner circle, introduced herself as a "Mom" and said the right to drive a car was "an important part of my freedom". Saudi women are forbidden to drive.

The Texan was soon on the defensive. A reporter present said a member of the audience said: "The general image of the Arab woman is that she isn't happy. Well we're all pretty happy."

The audience applauded loudly. Many said they resented the idea they would adopt US lifestyles given the chance. "There is more male chauvinism in my profession in Europe and America than in my country," Dr Siddiqa Kamal, a female obstetrician, told the New York Times. "I don't want to drive a car.

"I worked hard for my medical degree. Why do I need a driver's licence?"

Others agreed that the absence of women's rights did not trouble them. American reporters said that Ms Hughes appeared to be taken aback by the response.

The difficulties continued in Turkey where another meeting with professional women was dominated by Iraq. "You cannot bring in war for the sake of peace," said Feray Sazman.

A human rights worker, Hidayet Sefkatli Tuksal, told Ms Hughes she felt "wounded and insulted" by the images of fear in the eyes of Iraqi women and children.

Arab newspapers such as Al-Hayat said her mission was a fraud because she was "carrying a fake message".

But leaders in several Arab countries said she was at least listening.

A US State Department report yesterday stated that after the Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse scandal and the controversy over detainees at Guantanamo Bay, America was seen less as "a beacon of hope than a dangerous force to be countered".

It added: "This assertion, repeated in newspaper columns, on radio and television broadcasts, and via the internet, diminishes our ability to champion freedom, democracy and individual dignity."


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: arab; arabwomen; bush; confidante; hughes; karen; karenhughes; muslimwomen; shun; snub; woman
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1 posted on 09/29/2005 5:55:54 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam

It been said that a lot of the slaves when freed didn't want to leave the farms, does the telegraph think they should have stayed on as slaves?

So people are worried about the unknown we should just keep on discriminating against them seems to be the point of this stupid article as best I can tell........


2 posted on 09/29/2005 6:04:32 PM PDT by federal
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To: federal

a country where women don't want to drive? No doubt its safer there. ;)


3 posted on 09/29/2005 6:06:56 PM PDT by Loud Mime (Hatred is the foundation of socialist movements, conceit is the motivator)
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To: blam

People don't miss something they never had...and if these women have never lived in a society like America's, then I could see where they would get defensive about being told that they "should" want to change...

however, the part of the report that says that those Abu-GHarib pictures, and the "rumors" or torture at Gitmo, have caused the people to see us as oppressors instead of liberators...then that is a darn shame...

and I just heard that O'Reilly just was saying that the Pentagon hasn't openly fought to keep those videos and other pictures out of the newspaper, after a judge recently ruled in favor of the NYTimes to show them...


4 posted on 09/29/2005 6:08:06 PM PDT by Txsleuth (Mike Pence for President of the United States!)
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To: blam

Think I'll wait to hear Ms Hughes.


5 posted on 09/29/2005 6:08:11 PM PDT by elli1
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To: blam
The Texan was soon on the defensive. A reporter present said a member of the audience said: "The general image of the Arab woman is that she isn't happy. Well we're all pretty happy."

More left wing rubbish masquerading as news.

6 posted on 09/29/2005 6:08:47 PM PDT by Rome2000 (Peace is not an option)
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To: blam
I don't envy anyone in our government who has to deal with zealots of any sort. Let these people fend for themselves............after a year or so, they'll be screaming for OUR help.......Then..."Just Say NO".....

FMCDH(BITS)

7 posted on 09/29/2005 6:10:19 PM PDT by nothingnew (I fear for my Republic due to marxist influence in our government. Open eyes/see)
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To: elli1

NOW that is a good idea!!! Me too....

I think I would really like to hear what Karen has to say..it should really be interesting...

Different countries, I am sure, are different in their reactions, of course...and I would like Karen to speak to the women of Afghanistan...

When we first won the war....I was aghast at the women having to wear burqas...and was so glad that they wouldn't have to anymore, after we rid the country of the Taliban, and supposedly Sha'ria Law...

but, when I saw footage of the elections last week, it looked like most of the women still wear them....I would love to know why...


8 posted on 09/29/2005 6:11:54 PM PDT by Txsleuth (Mike Pence for President of the United States!)
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To: Txsleuth
"and I just heard that O'Reilly just was saying that the Pentagon hasn't openly fought to keep those videos and other pictures out of the newspaper, after a judge recently ruled in favor of the NYTimes to show them... "

Yup, I saw that...a good segment for O'Reilly.

9 posted on 09/29/2005 6:12:25 PM PDT by blam
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To: Loud Mime
a country where women don't want to drive? No doubt its safer there. ;)

OK

Who has the picture of the 60 or so wrecked cars entitled, "Woman-only parking lot"?

10 posted on 09/29/2005 6:13:13 PM PDT by HIDEK6
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To: Txsleuth

Women go back to men that beat them. Why??


11 posted on 09/29/2005 6:14:04 PM PDT by sgtbono2002
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To: blam
America failed to understand them

That's right. The koran calls for killing all Jews and Infidels.
Don't Americans understand that every suicide bomber had a mother?

12 posted on 09/29/2005 6:15:27 PM PDT by melt (Someday they'll wish their Jihad...Jihadn't.)
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To: blam; rmlew; Yehuda; Clemenza; firebrand; PARodrig; Do not dub me shapka broham; cyborg; nutmeg
I am reminded of the "battered woamn" syndrome which applies to most women in that situation who go as far as to defend the abuser against all logic.

Happy is a relative term, a pampered slave is still a slave. We cannot "liberate" the arabs as long as they prefer their own tyrants to what they perceive as foreign puppets. Even if they are freely elected.

Most Germans where not "nazis" yet they fought to the death against all enemies of their nation in order to defend their tyrant. I am afraid the arabs will only change when they finally, like the germans, sit among the rubble of their cities and realize they follow a failed way of life, religion and culture wise. Until we realize that, we will not win the war against Islam. And, it is a war against Islam, the terror phase is merely a small part of it.



13 posted on 09/29/2005 6:16:30 PM PDT by Cacique (quos Deus vult perdere, prius dementat ( Islamia Delenda Est ))
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To: sgtbono2002

You know what?

I don't know...and I was one of them, once upon a time ago...I went back a few times....but finally left for good, after he was hosptitalized in a psych hospital....

There are prolly as many answers as there are women...and all of them irrational...

But, I definitely see your point...good one.


14 posted on 09/29/2005 6:18:22 PM PDT by Txsleuth (Mike Pence for President of the United States!)
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To: blam
Dr Siddiqa Kamal, a female obstetrician, told the New York Times. "I don't want to drive a car. "I worked hard for my medical degree. Why do I need a driver's licence?"

That is SERIOUS "Stockholm Syndrome." Any Western psychologist would say that this person has a mental problem.

This is sorta like, "Yes, my husband beats me, but he is a good provider and I know he loves me."

I sure wouldn't want this "Doctor" treating me or my family.

15 posted on 09/29/2005 6:22:29 PM PDT by gg188
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To: Txsleuth

but, when I saw footage of the elections last week, it looked like most of the women still wear them....I would love to know why...

Guessing--part of it is that they're used to wearing them...like I'm used to wearing shorts in the summer & jeans in the winter. If I 'have to' wear something else, as in 'dress-up', I feel goofy.

Biggest part, I think, is a sense of personal security. They feel protected and would feel vulnerable in something more revealing. It's as much or more a social custom as it is a religious one and customs are slow to change.

16 posted on 09/29/2005 6:23:54 PM PDT by elli1
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To: Cacique
I am reminded of the "battered woamn" syndrome which applies to most women in that situation who go as far as to defend the abuser against all logic.

This is like, "I know my husband/boyfriend loves me. He just has to beat me because sometimes I am bad."

17 posted on 09/29/2005 6:25:09 PM PDT by gg188
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To: Cacique

Karen should have had answers ready.


18 posted on 09/29/2005 6:25:52 PM PDT by firebrand
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To: blam
"Arab Women" is a borderline oxymoron.

How one could be a 'woman' in the Arab world is beyond me.


19 posted on 09/29/2005 6:27:02 PM PDT by quantim (Detroit is the New Orleans of the North as an example of a failed welfare state.)
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To: elli1

I can buy that...sounds good to me...

You know, I see women all the time that SHOULD wear burqas...LOL

shame on me!!...I like shorts and BIG T-shirts, myself.


20 posted on 09/29/2005 6:32:30 PM PDT by Txsleuth (Mike Pence for President of the United States!)
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To: blam

Pearls before swine.


21 posted on 09/29/2005 6:35:48 PM PDT by ZULU (Fear the government which fears your guns. God, guts, and guns made America great.)
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To: melt

Some of those "mommies" of suicide bombers are bizarre...

I will never forget seeing an interview with the mother of a suicide bomber in Israel...of course she was Palestinian...

She pointed at three little boys at her feet and said that she would be "proud" for them to also be bombers and that Palestinian women "have" babies in order to add to the supply of suicide bombers...and she is SO PROUD!!!


22 posted on 09/29/2005 6:36:27 PM PDT by Txsleuth (Mike Pence for President of the United States!)
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To: quantim


I can tell they're happy by just looking at them. Look at those precious smiles!
23 posted on 09/29/2005 6:37:00 PM PDT by reagan_fanatic (Darwinism is a belief in the meaninglessness of existence - R. Kirk)
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To: reagan_fanatic

That one in the middle's a floozy...look at that gold thing on her...er...head. She's simply a slut.


24 posted on 09/29/2005 6:38:55 PM PDT by bannie (The government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend upon the support of Paul.)
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To: blam
"I worked hard for my medical degree. Why do I need a driver's licence?"

Oh, now that makes total sense. It must be that Muslim logic.

25 posted on 09/29/2005 6:40:54 PM PDT by numberonepal (Don't Even Think About Treading On Me)
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To: reagan_fanatic
"I can tell they're happy by just looking at them. Look at those precious smiles!"

That picture looks like something out of an alien (space) movie.

26 posted on 09/29/2005 6:46:37 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
That people are happy inside a culture that they're used to shouldn't be a surprise.

US feminists have brainwashed the entire country into believing that total freedom is the only way to universal feminine happiness. What I see instead is extreme cultural myopia.

It is unfortunate that even making a cultural and strictly sociological observation opens one up to charges of sexism and oppression here. This should something we pay attention to.

Our way is the best way, no doubt, but expecting others to innately embrace it is just dumb and demonstrates narrow-mindedness.
27 posted on 09/29/2005 6:47:05 PM PDT by Wiseghy (Discontent is the want of self-reliance: it is infirmity of will. Ralph Waldo Emerson)
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To: reagan_fanatic

That picture is horrible in the 21st century, and this article is unbelievable. These are highly educated women who don't even want to drive. It's really disturbing to read this.


28 posted on 09/29/2005 6:47:25 PM PDT by Dr. Scarpetta
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To: blam

I just have to say this, even though it isn't the subject of the article or thread...

The best place for Karen Hughes is back in Washington, running interference for President Bush as his PERSONAL public relations person...

His public relations people have NOT served him well...and I thing Karen Hughes could do that...


29 posted on 09/29/2005 6:47:52 PM PDT by Txsleuth (Mike Pence for President of the United States!)
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To: blam

Stockholm Syndrome?


30 posted on 09/29/2005 6:49:45 PM PDT by bk1000 (A clear conscience is a sure sign of a poor memory)
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To: blam

Ah heck. We don't understand them. Gee whiz, I wonder if they understand us?


31 posted on 09/29/2005 6:49:46 PM PDT by ladyinred (It is all my fault okay?)
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To: blam

A US State Department report yesterday stated that after the Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse scandal and the controversy over detainees at Guantanamo Bay, America was seen less as "a beacon of hope than a dangerous force to be countered".


Yeah, but we know how to have fun with underware.


32 posted on 09/29/2005 6:50:17 PM PDT by LoudRepublicangirl (loudrepublicangirl)
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To: Dr. Scarpetta

Oh leave them alone! It's just their "culture"


33 posted on 09/29/2005 6:51:21 PM PDT by YoungHickey
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To: Txsleuth
I was aghast at the women having to wear burqas...... but, when I saw footage of the elections last week, it looked like most of the women still wear them....I would love to know why...

In a society where a woman is stoned to death for allowing herself to be raped I believe I'd wear the damn thing too. I say they deserve everything they get at this point....lead a horse to water and all that.

34 posted on 09/29/2005 6:54:43 PM PDT by SouthernFreebird
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To: blam
"The general image of the Arab woman is that she isn't happy. Well we're all pretty happy."

When our men aren't beating the living crap out of us!

The audience applauded loudly.

There, I fixed it...
35 posted on 09/29/2005 6:55:10 PM PDT by DocRock (Osama said, "We love death, the U.S. loves life, that is the main difference between us.")
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To: Wiseghy

Exactly,
If you talk to an Arabic woman, they count their blessings in that Nursing Homes don't exist over there...because the extended family lives together and the elderly are cared for until death. Nothing appalls them more than the Western practice of sending our old away to die.

The 'harem' (not the Hollywood sleaze version, but the true functioning sanctuary) is the heart where all the women, children, servants etc hang out together...work, play, tell stories, play cards, musical instruments,dance and support one another.

If a woman has a baby, gets ill or simply has a bought of
sorrow (which actually has a name), she will be cared for
and pampered by others in that side of the house. I've never had sisters, but the coolest experiences of my life were being around a group of Morrocan woman....eating off the same plate and just chatting up a storm.

They were extremely affectionate and complementary to one another and me. Not in a sexual way, just very, very loving and demonstrative. It was a very compelling experience because it was so different from what I've experienced even with the kindest western females....I almost felt like a Christmas puppy must feel around them.

I agree, I love my freedom, I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world. And I think Sharia law is something out of a Gor novel. I also know there are bad households and unhappy/bored to tears women. Yet I can also understand why these women see aspects of their lives good and want them to be preserved.


36 posted on 09/29/2005 6:59:39 PM PDT by najida (Once upon a a very long time ago, in a land far, far away.....It was still all Bush's fault.)
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To: HIDEK6

===Who has the picture of the 60 or so wrecked cars entitled, "Woman-only parking lot"?----

Hmm....you're looking for the "smaller" lot?


37 posted on 09/29/2005 7:16:58 PM PDT by Loud Mime (Hatred is the foundation of socialist movements, conceit is the motivator)
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To: blam

Another propaganda ploy by Muslim women who don't want to be understood. Thats the main reason we alledgedly do not understand them.

Women who allow multiple wives, limited travel ( no drivers licenses), the law of purdah ( do not create any desire in a male),are basically females who have been systematically disempowered to the point where they do not want any freedom. A bird kept in a cage it's whole life will not fly out of it when the door is opened. It's world is the cage.

Now, Karen Hughes, a women of success, eloquence and freedom visits and they say," You do not understand us?"

We already do.And for Saudi Women, that is the defining problem. Now they want to make us think we do not understand them.

Hey, bring them to Las Vegas, put them in mini skirts and push up bras, and turn 'em loose!

Do not take them seriously, at all!


38 posted on 09/29/2005 7:26:57 PM PDT by Candor7 (Into Liberal Flatulence Goes the Hope of the West)
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To: blam

Another propaganda ploy by Muslim women who don't want to be understood. Thats the main reason we alledgedly do not understand them.

Women who allow multiple wives, limited travel ( no drivers licenses), the law of purdah ( do not create any desire in a male),are basically females who have been systematically disempowered to the point where they do not want any freedom. A bird kept in a cage it's whole life will not fly out of it when the door is opened. It's world is the cage.

Now, Karen Hughes, a women of success, eloquence and freedom visits and they say," You do not understand us?"

We already do.And for Saudi Women, that is the defining problem. Now they want to make us think we do not understand them.

Hey, bring them to Las Vegas, put them in mini skirts and push up bras, and turn 'em loose!

Do not take them seriously, at all!


39 posted on 09/29/2005 7:27:18 PM PDT by Candor7 (Into Liberal Flatulence Goes the Hope of the West)
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To: blam

It is so surprising that muslim women would treat an infidel like this. NOT!


40 posted on 09/29/2005 7:57:19 PM PDT by taxesareforever (Government is running amuck)
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To: blam
....was told by professional women in Saudi Arabia and Turkey that she and America failed to understand them.

Hell, set a building on fire and drive 'em in. What's to understand? (rolleyes)

41 posted on 09/29/2005 8:01:12 PM PDT by JoJo Gunn (Help control the Leftist population. Have them spayed or neutered. )
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To: quantim
http://www.apostatesofislam.com/media/stoning.htm


42 posted on 09/29/2005 8:11:54 PM PDT by SkyPilot
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To: blam
Two observations:

1. None of these accounts are from meetings with Iraqi professional women, i.e. women from a country that has actually been liberated. They are all from countries where there is intense opposition to the liberation of Iraq because of the fear that it will have a destabilizing on their own societies.

2. Re: The Texan was soon on the defensive. BS

43 posted on 09/29/2005 8:43:31 PM PDT by tarheelswamprat (Texan By Choice)
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To: blam

Damn!


44 posted on 09/29/2005 8:51:21 PM PDT by bellas_sister (www.bracketfish.org)
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To: blam

Well, at least she's there, in person, to dialogue with them. Not that I think she should don their clothing and throw away her driver's license.

It's a dirty job but she's doing it.


45 posted on 09/29/2005 8:58:56 PM PDT by Kryptonite
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To: blam

And what would they say to a PRESIDENT Hillary Clinton?


46 posted on 09/29/2005 9:22:38 PM PDT by Hildy
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To: Cacique
"I am afraid the arabs will only change when they finally, like the germans, sit among the rubble of their cities and realize they follow a failed way of life, religion and culture wise."

BUMP FOR OCCUPATION AND TOTAL DEJIHADIFICATION.

PS

Hughes should go for a much simpler approach: HERE IS THE LIFE OF WOMEN UNDER ISLAM(warning very graphic):


47 posted on 09/29/2005 10:03:02 PM PDT by Yehuda ("Land of the free, THANKS TO THE BRAVE!" (Choke on it, pinkos!))
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To: blam

The whole idea of Hughes' "job" is ridiculous. Scrap it now. If Arabs are too stupid to understand that freedom is good and tyranny is bad, then f**k 'em. We don't need anyone to be convinced that we are right.


48 posted on 09/29/2005 10:18:58 PM PDT by montag813
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To: Loud Mime
a country where women don't want to drive? No doubt its safer there. ;)

Half as many bad drivers on the road than most other places.

49 posted on 09/29/2005 11:45:11 PM PDT by ApplegateRanch (The Marching Morons are coming...and they're breeding more Democrats beyond all reason!)
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To: Candor7
Now,Karen Hughes,a woman of success,eloquence and freedom visits and they say."You do not understand us?"

Well,think about this: Now,Hillary Clinton, a woman of success,eloquence and freedom comes to visit and they say."You don't understand us?"

Interesting,no? A blond,important,fiftyish woman from the United States visits a foreign land. The audience is unresponsive,even angry and they give her a piece of their mind.

In one case we sneer at these pathetic,downtrodden know nothings and the other we would cheer their honesty, perceptiveness and courage.

We need to be very aware of the fact that a Karen Hughes or a Hilary Clinton are end products of the feminist movement,maybe these women see more than some here do. Just a thought.

50 posted on 09/30/2005 1:01:37 AM PDT by saradippity
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