Posted on 10/07/2005 11:16:41 AM PDT by neverdem
Right to bear arms
OCALA - State Rep. Dennis Baxley is confident his proposed bill to allow employees to have guns in their vehicles on work property is a surefire winner.
"It's a national issue, really. I felt like Florida should take a position," the Ocala Republican said Tuesday. "It's just a matter of time until the anti-gun lobby gets to every major employer."
But some Ocala employers who currently prohibit their employees from bringing guns into the parking lot are uneasy about Baxley's proposal.
"It seems precarious to me," said Pat Reddish, human resources director for Signature Brands. "It just opens up so many opportunities for things to happen."
Under current policy, Signature Brands reserves the right to search employee vehicles on work property, and having a gun in a vehicle could result in an employee being fired, Reddish said.
Baxley's bill would allow employees to bring firearms to work, provided they were kept in a locked vehicle. The bill would make any employer restrictions on such gun possession a felony.
"I think some of those things may be negotiable, but I think you need a firm response that you cannot do this," Baxley said.
The bill also would exempt employers from lawsuits in the event an employee used a gun from their vehicle in a workplace shooting.
Lockheed Martin is among local employers that prohibit guns on their property.
"Employees are prohibited from storing weapons in vehicles on company premises, or carrying them while conducting company business," company spokeswoman Jennifer L. Allen said in a written statement. "Lockheed Martin is committed to providing its employees a safe place to work, free from workplace violence."
Munroe Regional Medical Center also prohibits employees from bringing guns to work in their vehicles.
"Our policy is that you cannot park on campus," spokeswoman Erl Piscitelli said. "If you are carrying a firearm in your car, you should park off campus."
Ocala Regional Medical Center also prohibits guns on any hospital property, said spokeswoman Allison Campbell. An employee with a gun in their car would be subject to discipline, "up to and including termination," Campbell said.
Liz Whitacre, though, supports Baxley's bill. The founding force behind the Ocala YMCA, Whitacre carries a handgun in her car nearly everywhere she goes.
"There's not enough protection of an average human being, a normal human being," said Whitacre, a National Rifle Association member and former police officer.
She disagrees with policies that restrict firearms on company property.
"I think that is absolutely absurd," she said. "Because the bad guys are out there. They're going to do wrong."
Baxley downplayed past workplace shootings across the nation.
"Because of those situations that occur, we're going to prevent everyone from exercising a right that's guaranteed in the Constitution?" he said. "That's a no-win situation."
Data about workplace shootings isn't accurate, Baxley said.
"That data's very contaminated by events outside the workplace, such as taxi drivers and pizza deliverers," he said. "I don't think the workplace safety issue holds up."
Information from the U.S. Department of Labor's Bureau of Labor Statistics tends to support Baxley's point on that issue.
A 2000 BLS report shows work-related homicides dropped 34 percent between 1994 and 1998. A total of 40 percent of those killed in the workplace in 1998 worked in retail businesses such as food stores, bakeries and gas stations, the report noted.
Baxley acknowledged there hasn't been a wave of businesses moving to regulate employees bringing guns to work, but said "there is an organized effort" to do so.
Baxley said he believes his proposal will do more than preserve Second Amendment rights.
"I think," he said, "we'll have a safer society."
Rick Cundiff can be reached at (352) 867-4130 or rick.cundiff@starbanner.com.
Hmm. Seems to me that a property owner has every right to set the rules regarding firearms on his property.
If I hire someone to put a new roof on my house, mow my lawn, etc., do I not have the right to tell him if he will not disarm, he is not welcome on my property, if that is my desire? In doing so, I am not infringing on his rights. He is still free to go anywhere else, just not on my property.
"In doing so, I am not infringing on his rights. He is still free to go anywhere else, just not on my property."
Right, so the property owner has the right to tell everyone on said property that they must vote for Liberal Democrats or else they need to find another job?
The place I work now is a very small firm, but 3 of 5 of us have our concealed carry permits. But, the company my husband works for won't allow them to keep protection in their cars.
But many large companies don't own the land. The landlord owns the building. Usually the inside is the tenats responsibility and the external maintenance is the landlords. So can company fire you for bring a weapon on land it does not own?
If you want anyone who works for you to relinquish their natural right to self defense, just hang out the sign.
Are you going to search every contractors personal vehicle before he is allowed to do work on your property?
Of course not. It's assinine and an invasion of privacy, not to mention infringing on the contractor's right to self-defense, and the means to effect such defense if it becomes necessary.
Besides, those intent on doing harm with ANY weapon, not just firearms, are going to try and do what they want to do.
Wouldn't it be better if many of your fellow, law-abiding employees had access to their personal firearms kept locked in their personal vehicles to put down such an attack?
I'll continue my boycott of Phillips-Conoco and Weyerhaeuser to make the point.
"That data's very contaminated by events outside the workplace, such as taxi drivers and pizza deliverers," he said. "I don't think the workplace safety issue holds up."
Information from the U.S. Department of Labor's Bureau of Labor Statistics tends to support Baxley's point on that issue.
A 2000 BLS report shows work-related homicides dropped 34 percent between 1994 and 1998. A total of 40 percent of those killed in the workplace in 1998 worked in retail businesses such as food stores, bakeries and gas stations, the report noted.
Outstanding info, Neverdem. As usual, thanks for the post.
This is just like MOST of the so-called "data" that the gun-grabbers use. It is BULLSH*T designed to push their anti-gun, anti-2nd Amendment, anti-freedom, anti-American agenda.
Does an apartment dweller not have the right to prohibit guests and contractors from bringing firearms into his apartment? I believe he does.
I suspect the interior vs. exterior distinction would only be valid where there are multiple tenants sharing the exterior (e.g. common parking lot).
Thanks. That's how I see it. Your personal right to free expression ends at my property line, too.
Within reasonable limits, sure. But what would be reasonable about inspecting a roofing contractors truck for firearms?
If I hire someone to put a new roof on my house, mow my lawn, etc., do I not have the right to tell him if he will not disarm, he is not welcome on my property, if that is my desire?
Sure you [as an individual] do, but why is that your desire? -- Aren't you aware that it is a Constitutional 'desire', - a law of the land, - that our RKBA's be uninfringed? -- Why do you want to infringe on my right to have a gun in my private property [my truck]?
In doing so, I am not infringing on his rights.
Many state legislators & courts now disagree. --- The Georgia Supreme Court nailed the issue:
They said that your vehicle is an extension of your home, and anything you can legally possess in your home you can carry in your vehicle onto both public and private parking lots.
Hmm. Seems to me that a property owner has every right to set the rules regarding firearms on his property.
this is a very touchy issue. my question is, does my car cease to be my property when i drive onto yours? i believe that i have the right to tell you that you can't come into my house armed, but not that i can tell you whether or not you can have the firearm in your vehicle.
also at issue, how does the company justify search? is there a written document, signed by the employee, that allows this search, or is does it violate search and siezure laws?
If the roofing contractor wants the job, and the customer's stated requirements include inspecting his vehicle for firearms, the contractor can decide not to bid on the job if he doesn't care to have his privacy invaded. Then, the customer can try to find a contractor who's willing to submit to the inspections. If the contract is already offered and accepted, and the customer springs this inspection idea on him out of the blue, now we're talking about contractual terms, whether they're written, oral, or reasonably assumed. That's for a court to decide, if either party wants to dig in his heels and take it that far.
By and large, where a business transaction is concerned, I believe it's reasonable and just for each party to set whatever policies he wants. The other is free to take it or leave it. In this particular case, if the company's money and policies aren't to your liking, and you think you can do better somewhere else, you're free to hawk your services and/or products down the road. Likewise, if the company doesn't care for your policy of carrying guns in your vehicle, the company has the right to give its business to someone else. Each of us has the freedom of choice, and choices have consequences.
Many state legislators & courts now disagree. --- The Georgia Supreme Court nailed the issue: They said that your vehicle is an extension of your home, and anything you can legally possess in your home you can carry in your vehicle onto both public and private parking lots.
That's not surprising. Commies, Socialists, Liberals and RINOs are all too happy to chip away at our private property rights, just as they have our Second Amendment rights. Meanwhile, some conservatives believe they've won a victory when it may very well be that the opposite is true. Maybe they've been conned and don't even know it. Maybe they were thrown a bone to pacify them for awhile.
If the gun owner really wants to visit or do business with the property owner, the gun owner will simply have to park his vehicle somewhere else, not on the property.
also at issue, how does the company justify search? is there a written document, signed by the employee, that allows this search
The company would be stupid to try it without giving ample notice prior to attempting any such search. Hard-to-miss signs in the parking lot, signs at the doors, etc. This assumes the company's objective is not to catch violators; rather, the company really does want to keep firearms off the property.
or is does it violate search and siezure laws?
Unless I'm mistaken, the 4th Amendment restricts what governments can do, not private property owners. It seems pretty simple; anyone who doesn't want to be searched is free to leave the premises. It's not as if anyone is being threatened with imprisonment for refusing to be searched.
No.
A person is free to choose whether to carry a firearm. He has little or no choice in the matter of his race.
That is a better question.
I suspect the interior vs. exterior distinction would only be valid where there are multiple tenants sharing the exterior (e.g. common parking lot).
This might feel intutive but remember even if the company is the only tenant it still has limited financial intrest( and legal liablity) in the exterior and the only pull the company has over the landlord, to paint, landscape, parking rules, policy over guns, etc, is for it to threaten to move. In some a crowded market the landlord might just laugh in the tenants face, in a situation where office space is plentiful and few renters exist, the tenant would have considerable power.
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