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Simultaneous headshots stop 3 suicide bombers
UK Telegraph ^ | 20/11/2005

Posted on 11/20/2005 6:39:09 AM PST by veronica

Early on a warm summer morning, a few hours before traffic began to fill the streets, a 16-man SAS patrol took up ambush positions around a Baghdad house, writes Sean Rayment.

The soldiers had been told that the house was a being used as a base by insurgents - and up to three suicide bombers were expected to leave it later that morning.

Dressed in explosive vests, they were fully equipped to hit a number of locations around the city. The bombers' targets were thought to be cafes and restaurants frequented by members of the Iraqi security forces.

The intelligence was regarded as "high grade" and came from an Iraqi agent who had been nurtured by members of the British Secret Intelligence Service, also known as MI6, for several months.

Expectation among the 16 soldiers, attached to Task Force Black (TFB), the secret American and British special forces unit based in the Iraqi capital, was high. Each member of the four four-man groups was a veteran of many missions where the intelligence promised much - only to deliver little.

The plan for Operation Marlborough was simple: allow the three suspected bombers to leave the house and get into the street, then kill them with head shots from the four sniper teams. Each team was equipped with L115A .338 sniper rifles, capable of killing at up to 1,000 yards.

The soldiers, liaising earlier with their commanders, had considered the option of entering the house and killing the terrorists - but that plan was regarded as too dangerous. The confines of the house would intensify the impact of any blast, killing everyone inside.

The SAS soldiers were told that it was vital that the three bombers would have to be killed simultaneously.

If one of them was allowed to detonate a device, scores of people could be killed or injured.

In support of the covert sniper teams was a Quick Reaction Force (QRF), which would provide a dozen extra soldiers within a few minutes in an emergency. The QRF was based in a secure location nearby and a team of ammunition technical officers were on hand to defuse the bombs.

A section of Iraqi police was also attached to the operation - although they were not briefed on the detail of the attack - to deal with any crowd trouble.

Meanwhile, 2,000 feet above the city of five million inhabitants, a CIA-controlled Predator unmanned air vehicle was providing a real-time video feed back to the TFB headquarters deep inside the secure green zone.

Shortly after 8am, Arabic translators, monitoring listening devices hidden inside the house, warned the operations centre inside the militarily controlled green zone that the three terrorist were on the move. The message "stand by, stand by" was dispatched to the four teams.

As the terrorists entered the street, a volley of shots rang out and the three insurgents slumped to the ground.

Each terrorist had been killed by a single head shot - the snipers having spent the past few days rehearsing the ambush in minute detail.

The SAS troopers had been warned that only a direct head shot would guarantee that bombs would not be detonated.

Only three of the four snipers fired, the fourth was to act as a back-up in case one of the weapons jammed or a sniper lost sight of his target.

The message that the terrorists had been killed was sent back to the SAS headquarters and the troops moved forward to check the bodies for life. As they gingerly approached it became brutally apparent that the .338 calibre round - the biggest rifle bullet used by the Army - had done its job.

Operation Marlborough was hailed as a complete success and one of the rare occasions on which the coalition has been able to deliver a decisive blow against suicide bombers.


TOPICS: Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: excellentwork; sas; snipers
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To: woofer; texianyankee
Y'know, Tex, my philosophy is that somewhere, somehow, it noon some place on this earth.

Actually, "It's Five O' Clock Somewhere"

The sun is hot and that old clock is movin' slow,
An' so am I.
Work day passes like molasses in wintertime,
But it's July.
I'm gettin' paid by the hour, an' older by the minute.
My boss just pushed me over the limit.
I'd like to call him somethin’;
I think I'll just call it a day.

Pour me somethin' tall an' strong,
Make it a "Hurricane" before I go insane.
It's only half-past twelve but I don't care.
It's five o'clock somewhere.

Oh, this lunch break is gonna take all afternoon,
An' half the night.
Tomorrow mornin', I know there'll be hell to pay,
Hey, but that's all right.
I ain't had a day off now in over a year.
Our Jamaican vacation's gonna start right here.
Hit the 'phones for me.
You can tell 'em I just sailed away.

An' pour me somethin' tall an' strong;
Make it a "Hurricane" before I go insane.
It's only half-past twelve but I don't care.
It's five o'clock somewhere.

I could pay off my tab, pour myself in a cab,
An' be back to work before two.
At a moment like this, I can't help but wonder,
”What would Jimmy Buffet do?”

Funny you should ask that because I'd say:
Pour me somethin' tall an' strong,
Make it a "Hurricane" before I go insane.
It's only half-past twelve but I don't care.

Pour me somethin' tall an' strong,
Make it a "Hurricane" before I go insane.
It's only half-past twelve but I don't care.
He don't care.
I don't care.
It's five o'clock somewhere.

What time zone am I on? What country am I in?
It doesn't matter; it's five o'clock somewhere.
It's always on five in Margaritaville, come to think of it.
Yeah, I heard that.
You been there haven't you.
Yessir.
I seen your boat there.
I've been to Margaritaville a few times.
All right, that's good.
Stumbled all the way back.
OK. Just wanna make sure you can keep it between the navigational beacons.
Bring the booze, I tell you.
All right. Well, it's five o'clock. Let's go somewhere.
I'm ready, crank it up.
Let's get out of here.
I'm gone.
Let's get out of here.

Garde la Foi, mes amis! Nous nous sommes les sauveurs de la République! Maintenant et Toujours!
(Keep the Faith, my friends! We are the saviors of the Republic! Now and Forever!)

LonePalm, le Républicain du verre cassé (The Broken Glass Republican)

101 posted on 11/20/2005 11:06:22 AM PST by LonePalm (Commander and Chef)
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To: veronica

Wow! I love a happy ending.


102 posted on 11/20/2005 11:13:27 AM PST by GBA (I believe Congressman Weldon! MSM do your job.)
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To: Ninian Dryhope
A team working with Malcolm Cooper, the twice Olympic and eight-time world champion rifle shot

They fail to mention that Malcolm is a really nice guy, as well. Good dude, that runs a good company.

103 posted on 11/20/2005 11:13:45 AM PST by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: sgtbono2002
Should not have been published. Let them guess how the information got out. Now they are looking for the agent.

Assuming there is an agent.

The baddies will undoubtedly find several 'agents' in their ranks...

104 posted on 11/20/2005 11:23:29 AM PST by null and void (The enemy of my enemy is my tool...)
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To: Ninian Dryhope

I love stories like this!


105 posted on 11/20/2005 11:27:52 AM PST by rockprof
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To: edpc

Heartwarming


106 posted on 11/20/2005 11:29:39 AM PST by null and void (The enemy of my enemy is my tool...)
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To: Flyer; Eaker; humblegunner; thackney; Travis McGee

Well...

At least they weren't running when they were shot...

They at least died well rested...

It would be great if they'd release the drone aerial footage...They almost release everything else...Why not this stuff...Radio chatter would be pretty neat to listen too...

I guess that just makes me a sick individual...


107 posted on 11/20/2005 11:34:20 AM PST by stevie_d_64 (Houston Area Texans)
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To: veronica
.338 Winchester Magnum is great for elk and bear. I like the .375 H&H and the .458 winchester Magnum. A 35 pound 50bmg is just to heavy.
108 posted on 11/20/2005 11:38:06 AM PST by mountainlyons (Still angry after all these years!)
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To: starfish923

"Sharpshooters don't come from nowhere.
They usually come from folks who were brought up with guns and an appreciation of guns."

My father, who was a lifetime NRA member, once told me the best marksman he ever knew was a man who had been a boy in the south in the 1920s, from a poor family, and if he didn't shoot something for dinner, they went hungry. Few bullets and an empty stomach made for a sharp eye.


109 posted on 11/20/2005 12:12:16 PM PST by hsalaw
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To: veronica
"As they gingerly approached it became brutally apparent that the .338 calibre round - the biggest rifle bullet used by the Army - had done its job."

Most excellent.

...*even* Allah would approve.

110 posted on 11/20/2005 12:15:49 PM PST by Landru (A sucker born every minute = ~36,288,800 new suckers every year.)
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To: veronica

I would like to know more about the history of the .338 Lapua. I recall a 1985 SOF interview with one Chuck Kramer, then head of the IDF sniper school where he recommended the .338 Win Mag as the best combination of size and power for all-around sniping. I know that the belted case is a worse-than-useless historical accident. Is the .338 Lapua simply a .338 Win Mag without the belt?


111 posted on 11/20/2005 12:50:08 PM PST by sinanju
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To: sinanju

8.60x70mm (.338 Lapua)
The .338 is fairly new to the sniper community, but it does bear the distinction as being the first and only caliber designed specifically for sniping. While this round was actually developed back in 1983, it wasn't until the last few years that it has gained in popularity. The caliber was designed to arrive at 1000 meters with enough energy to penetrate 5 layers of military body armor and still make the kill. The effective range of this caliber is about 1 mile (1600meters) and in the right shooting conditions, it could come very close to the 2000 meter mark, provided you have the right rifle/ammo/optics/shooter/spotter combination. Realistically, 1200 meters is well within the average sniper. This caliber is designed primarily as a military extreme range anti-personnel round, there really is no Law Enforcement applications, unless you need a super penetrating round for either armored vehicles, or for barricaded suspects. There is not a lot of rifles chambered for the .338, but the list is growing with the likes of Sako, AI, and others producing .338 sniping rifles. Ammo is another problem, match ammo is sometimes difficult to find, but it is becomming more available as time passes. We all know the legal liability of using hand loads, so that is out of the question. Another concern is the recoil of this caliber, even with a good muzzle brake, its brisk. So don't try a rifle without one. Be sure to practice the fundamentals of shooting to try and prevent a flinch from developing.

http://www.snipercentral.com/338.htm


112 posted on 11/20/2005 1:03:00 PM PST by Ninian Dryhope
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To: veronica
Fantastic !!!!!!!!!
113 posted on 11/20/2005 1:09:51 PM PST by Dustbunny (Main Stream Media -- Making 'Max Headroom' a reality.)
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To: veronica

PAY PER VIEW PLEASE PUT IT ON PAY PER VIEW.


114 posted on 11/20/2005 1:13:26 PM PST by Walkingfeather
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To: Travis McGee

Malcomb Cooper's design kicks ass.......:o)

I have a dakota longbow in .338 Lapua Mag......it's nuff !


115 posted on 11/20/2005 1:13:52 PM PST by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet. ©)
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To: sinanju



HISTORY AND DEVELOPMENT OF THE .338 LAPUA MAGNUM
Alan C. Paulson

Originally developed as a military cartridge, the .338 LAPUA Magnum may well be seen by small-arms historians as one of the most important cartridges developed in the latter part of the 20th century. The .338 fills an important but previously unfilled tactical niche between 7.62mm and .50 caliber sniper rifles, since it is capable of delivering reliable hits to 1,500 meters. Thanks to innovative bullet designs developed at Lapua, the .338 LAPUA Magnum also makes a compelling cartridge for long-range target shooting and hunting big game such as moose, bison and bear.

The .338 LAPUA Magnum is an important cartridge to military snipers because it significantly outperforms the 7.62x51 mm (.308 Winchester) round, which is the most common cartridge used in the sniper rifles of NATO and other Western countries. Rifles chambered in 7.62x51 mm tend to be reasonably light and maneuverable while providing a good mix of accuracy and penetration out to about 600 meters with conventional ammo and to about 900 meters with VLD (Very Low Drag) ammo. The .300 Winchester Magnum, which is increasingly being fielded in sniper rifles, provides good performance out to about 1,000 meters. That's a long shot, but serious problems in the real world can need solving at greater ranges.

In the military environment--whether conducting conventional operations, so-called peace-keeping missions, or special operations--it's not uncommon to come under heavy weapons fire originating a kilometer or more away. There has been considerable interest in fielding precision rifles chambered for the massive .50 BMG (12.7x99rnm) machine gun round to counter such long-range threats, since this round has a maximum effective range of about 2,000 meters.

There are several liabilities to .50 BMG precision rifles: (1) they are much bigger and heavier than conventional rifles: (2) their massive recoil impulse makes them unpleasant to shoot: (3) their massive muzzle blast is very unpleasant for both the shooter and his spotter, and therefore tends to cause all but the very best shooters to flinch; (4) muzzle blast tends to kick up debris (not to mention the considerable muzzle flash) that can reveal the shooter's position to hostile forces; and (5) .50 BMG rifles are frequently less accurate than rifles designed for the .338 LAPUA Magnum. Size and weight are important issues since .50 BMG rifles frequently weigh 26 pounds (12 kg) or more without optics. It is safe to say that lighter rifles in this caliber are unpleasant to shoot. Furthermore, rifles built at the lighter end of the .50 BMG envelope have caused more than one separated shoulder or detached retina. Finally, .50 BMG rifles are neither handy nor maneuverable. One can make the argument that .50 caliber rifles should really be viewed as crew-served weapons. While these rifles excel at a long-range anti-materiel role, they don't have the optimum mix of characteristics for long range anti-personnel applications in my opinion.

The .338 LAPUA Magnum is capable of placing reliable hits well beyond a kilometer (0.6 mile), yet the typical .338 rifle only weighs about 2 pounds (I kg) more than a comparable .308 rifle. The weapon is much more pleasant to shoot than a .50 BMG rifle, its muzzle blast and flash are considerable less, and both the rifles and the ammunition provide a more cost-effective option for long-range military sniping. I am aware of no other cartridge that effectively competes with the .338 LAPUA Magnum in bridging the gap between the .308 Winchester and .50 BMG cartridges. In terms of external ballistics, the.338 LAPUA Magnum's 250 grain (16.2 gram) FMJ projectile has a better ballistic coefficient than .30 caliber projectiles, and it is less sensitive to crosswind. Therefore, it should not be surprising that the .338 LAPUA Magnum outperforms the .300 Winchester Magnum, especially at ranges beyond 1,000 meters.

I suspect that we'll be seeing a lot more of the .338 LAPUA Magnum cartridge, since a widening circle of end-users are evaluating its merit as a sniping round. The British Ministry of Defence, for example, recently adopted the Accuracy International Model AW Super Magnum chambered in .338 LAPUA Magnum to meet its requirement for a long-range sniper rifle. The Netherlands has adopted .338 rifles as their standard sniping weapon, and several European countries are evaluating .338 rifles as well.

Barrett Firearms in the United States is working on three interesting weapons chambered for this round: a bolt-action rifle, a semiautomatic rifle, and a belt-fed machine gun. Other companies producing rifles in .338 LAPUA Magnum include McMillan Brothers in the United States, Sako Ltd. in Finland, and the German companies Mauser Werke Oberndorf GmbH, Heym Jagdwaffen GmbH & Co. KG, Keppeler & Fritz GmbH, and Erma Werke GmbH. Lloyd DeSantis in the United States is even making a scaled-up clone of the AR-15 rifle designed expressly for the.338 LAPUA Magnum. I used Erma's SR 100 Praezisionsgewehr (Precision Rifle) to evaluate the performance of the .338 LAPUA Magnum, which provided almost unbelievable performance at long range.



The Sako TRG-42 cal. .338 LAPUA Magnum rifle from SAKO Ltd., Finland, features an overall length of 1200 mm, a cold forged barrel length of 690 mm, a weight of 5.6 kg without optics, and a five-round detouchable box.

History of the .338 LAPUA Magnum

The .338 LAPUA Magnum, also known as the 8.6x70mm, was originally developed in 1983 as a long-range sniper cartridge for the U.S. Navy designed to push a 250 grain (16.2 gram) bullet at about 3,000 fps (914 mps). After a series of experiments, the Research Armament Company in the United States designed a round based on a slightly shortened and necked-down .416 Rigby case, building rifles for the Navy that used Hornady bullets and cases from Brass Extrusion Labs. The cartridge went from wildcat to production status when Lapua Ltd. in Finland refined the design at the Navy's request. The standard .416 case was not robust enough to support the average pressures generated by this cartridge, so Lapua kept the outside dimensions the same but beefed up the web area of the case. I should note that average pressures for this cartridge run a bitless than 60,915 psi or 420 MPa, and no single round will exceed 70,052 psi or 483 MPa. Muzzle velocity of production ammunition is a wee bit slower than the original concept, running about 2,950 fps (900 mps) out of the average rifle. This round will still be supersonic at 1.300 yards (1,200 meters), however, while 7.62x51 mm M80ball commonly goes subsonic around 770 yards (704 m).

Accuracy and velocity at long range are greatly facilitated by the design of the Lapua projectiles, which have had a reputation for extraordinary long-range performance since the 1930s, when Lapua developed a special bullet with rebated boat tail designed to give Maxim belt-fed machine guns unprecedented accuracy at ranges of 1,500 meters and beyond, while minimizing barrel erosion commonly associated with boat tail bullets of conventional design. The resulting precision D46 and D47 bullets delivered a lot of gold medals in national, world, and Olympic championships. The new .338 LAPUA Magnum ball round features a novel bullet design based upon that heritage. The B408 Lock Base bullet features much more robust construction and a conspicuously shorter rebated boat tail, which is also distinguished by a slightly pointed base. The B408 Lock Base provides superior accuracy at long range while delivering a flat trajectory. Lapua offers a broad range of tactical and sporting rounds for the .338 LAPUA Magnum, and it would be useful to take a brief look at each of these different rounds.



Ammunition Selection

It should come as no surprise that Lapua offers the largest selection of factory ammunition being produced for the .338 LAPUA Magnum. All variants feature a brass case and noncorrosive boxer primer, and are suitable for barrels with a 1 turn in 10 inch or 1 in 12 inch twist rate.

.338 Lock Base (be = 0.662)

The patented design of the Lock Base bullet enables the base of the projectile to tolerate higher velocities and chamber pressures that would deform the base of conventional bullets and therefore degrade accuracy. The rebated boat tail greatly reduces drag and provides a flatter trajectory than flat-based ball. This is the best choice for military applications and long-range target shooting. I should note this bullet design is also available in 7.62x51 mm ammunition featuring either 150 grain (9.7 gram) or 170 grain (11 gram) projectiles.

.338 Scenar (be = 0.675)

The Scenar bullet is a match-grade, hollow point boat tail design that is suitable for long-range target shooting as well as for law-enforcement applications. The HPBT projectile weighs 250 grains (16.2 grams), and its low-drag design gives it an excellent ballistic coefficient. Scenar ammunition is also noteworthy for its consist quality from one box to another. The Scenar bullet design is also available in 7.62x51 mm ammunition In three bullet weights: 155 grain (10 gram), 168 grain (10.9 gram), and 185 grain (12 gram) as well as respective moly-coated Silver Jacket Scenars.

.338 FOREX (be = 0.229)

For hunting big or dangerous game, Lapua recently introduced the FOREX soft point hollow base rotating bands bullet that features an ingenious hollow rear chamber, which puts the projectile's center of gravity forward of geometric center. This gives the SPHBR projectile much better, arrow-like stability when encountering objects in the bullet path, and this design also provides flatter trajectory. The FOREX projectile features CNC-machined construction that includes narrow driving bands to engage the rifling with minimum bore wear.

Nammo Lapua Oy also makes cal .338 AP-bullets as well as star-crimped blanks and dummy steel inert training rounds for the .338 LAPUA Magnum. Figures 1 and 2 compare bullet velocities and trajectories of the .338 LAPUA Magnum 250 grain (16.25 gram) FMJ B408 Lock Base, with White Feather 7.62x51 mm 175 gr (1 1.38 gram) FMJ BT, and Remington .300 Winchester Magnum 190 gr (12.35 gram) FMJ BT out to 1,500 yards. Since the .338 is also intended to perform in an anti-materiel role, momentum is compared in Figure 3. These data will give a sense for intrinsic capabilities of these three sniping calibers.

Hands-On Performance

In order to determine actual hands-on performance of the .338 LAPUA Magnum, I employed Erma's SR 100 rifle, which was designed as a military sniper rifle and was first marketed in January 1996. Perhaps the most noteworthy aspect of the Erma's design is that it features quick-change barrels in .308 Winchester, .300 Winchester Magnum, and .338 LAPUA Magnum. The German counter-terrorist teams GSG-9 and KSK adopted the SR 100 in .338 LAPUA Magnum. Clearly, the versatile Erma SR 100 has some interesting potential for military, law enforcement, and advanced sporting applications.

Shooting the Erma rifle proved addictive for two reasons: (1) the accuracy it delivered, and (2) the human engineering that went into the rifle.' The muzzle brake was particularly effective. The .338 LAPUA Magnum kicked like a .308 fitted with a sound suppressor, and the .308 kicked like a .223 rifle. But it is the accuracy delivered by the Erma that really makes the SR 100 interesting.

Using a Nightforce Mil-Dot 5.5-22x56 rifle scope, I found it easy to shoot 3/8 to 1/2 MOA groups at 200 yards (183 meters) until the wind picked up. The Nightforce optics were wonderfully bright and sharp, enabling me to see .338 caliber bullet holes clearly at 200 yards. My groups do not represent the inherent accuracy of either the rifle or the .338 LAPUA Magnum cartridge, however. A better workout was conducted by Steve Comus (formerly a U.S. Army sniper and now editor of Safari Magazine) and three of his colleagues over a period of four days.



ERMA SR 100 cal. .338 LAPUA Magnum featuring a paratrooper-length fluted barrel and a Nightforce Mil-Dot 5.5-22 x 56 rifle scope.

Using the ErmaSR 100 with .338 LAPUA Magnum barrel, all four shooters commonly shot 0.2 MOA three-round groups at 100 yards (91 m). Many groups were a single ragged hole. the best measuring just 0.13 inch (3.30 mm) center to center.

Over four days of variable lighting and air movement but no real wind, the Erma with .338 LAPUA Magnum barrel routinely hit 9.25 inch (23.5 cm) paper plates at 1.500 yards (1,374 meters). If one discounts the first shot or two to dope out air movement at the beginning of each shooting session, none of the four shooters ever missed a paper plate at 1 ,500 yards (0.85 mile or 1.4 km). That's almost good enough to get a head shot at nearly a mile. Hits at 750 yards (686 m) were so easy that the shooters got bored. It is safe to say this is extraordinary performance.

The Erma SR 100 Precision Rifle is a very interesting and a very versatile system, featuring kits that enable the operator to change calibers in the time it would take to change shoes. Quick-mounts enable swapping day and night optics without the loss of zero. When employed with the .338 LAPUA Magnum kit, the Erma SR 100 can solve problems nearly a mile away (1.5 kilometers or 0.9 mile). This system provides a mix of capabilities that can satisfy a wide range of missions. Only accurate rifles are interesting, and this is the most interesting rifle I've ever used.

The Erma also demonstrates that the .338 LAPUA Magnum offers compelling performance for military snipers and law-enforcement special response teams, as well as for civilian target shooters and big-game hunters. The .338 LAPUA Magnum has earned the respect of advanced military and civilian shooters, and this impressive round should become increasingly popular in the 21st century.

"LAPUA SHOOTING AND RELOADING MANUAL 2nd EDITION"

http://www.custer.com.au/Lap/pages/338Hist.html


116 posted on 11/20/2005 1:14:03 PM PST by Ninian Dryhope
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To: DevSix
Read post 87. Laser guided munition, like from the sky, got it? SAS 3 blocks away painting.

And the pc crap still stands Semper Fi

117 posted on 11/20/2005 1:54:59 PM PST by Pit1
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To: Pit1
Read post 87. Laser guided munition, like from the sky, got it? SAS 3 blocks away painting.

Well a few points here - First off, originally you were complaining and calling "PC" the notion of "worrying about casualties" - As in our military was being too concerned about inflicting unneeded causalities on our enemies --

You were completely wrong here, in that no where was this assertion ever made - The concern over casualties was for OUR forces. Period. Nothing to do with the enemy.

That you would have rather this extremely successful Op use laser guided munition is irrelevant. They weren't needed. Nor do you have all the information surrounding this Op to even make such a statement.

There could be over a dozen different reasons why putting a bomb on this location would have been not only foolishness but counterproductive to our greater goals.

As for the PC crap. That is exactly what that BS charge is. Crap.

We have been fighting and continue to fight the most successful unconventional war in history. Our enemies since Sept 11th have suffered one strategic defeat after another. We have not suffered one.

118 posted on 11/20/2005 2:27:43 PM PST by SevenMinusOne
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To: veronica

.338 Lapua? "When you care enough..."


119 posted on 11/20/2005 2:34:18 PM PST by 185JHP ( "The thing thou purposest shall come to pass: And over all thy ways the light shall shine.")
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To: DevSix
DevSix

I agree with you that there is no info in this report other then the results. But that is true in any article. We can only derive a conclusion from premises.

The soldiers had been told that the house was a being used as a base by insurgents - and up to three suicide bombers were expected to leave it later that morning.

Base of insurgents would assume that there are bomb makers there. Other planners. Base like in Base. The perps (bombers) were leaving, not the support staff or band of thugs. There still there. That is a good reason to eliminate it from the earth. Neighborhood or not.

If one of them was allowed to detonate a device, scores of people could be killed or injured.

Here's the pc crap. Scores could be killed or injured. Oh my God. Well this is war. If the neighborhood folks would see what it cost in life and limb to live next to one of these operations, they would get the message that it is just not the best idea. We would see target houses (insurgents) with empty houses for blocks around.

That is the point I am making. This area or building will fill back up with trash from the vacuum created by the dead 3.

And please don't misunderstand. I am grateful for the skill and courage of the SAS and my hats off to them for an outstanding job. They are hero's. But I still feel killing one at a time will have us doing this forever. They have to be completely annihilated along with their sympathizers. So it is my conclusion, without knowing all the facts and will never, that they should have taken this joint out.

120 posted on 11/20/2005 3:21:27 PM PST by Pit1
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