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Harley Announces Recall of 13,400 Bikes
AP (Absolute Prevarication) ^ | 11/23/2005 | Staff

Posted on 11/23/2005 12:31:34 PM PST by Red Badger

MILWAUKEE (AP) -- Harley-Davidson Inc. issued a voluntary safety recall on 2006 model Dyna series motorcycles built between June 9 and Oct. 19 due to a transmission defect.

The company said late Tuesday the recall affects some 13,400 motorcycles and is expected to cost less than $5 million, which it will make reservations for in the fourth quarter.

Harley-Davidson also said it expects to meet its previously announced wholesale shipment target of 329,000 motorcycles for 2005.

The Milwaukee-based company said it will provide owners with free pickup and delivery and will make recall kits, which include three redesigned transmission components, available at dealerships starting the week of Dec. 12.

The defect may allow the motorcycles to go into a false neutral position even though the neutral indicator light is illuminated, it said.

"If that happens, the transmission could engage into first or second gear unexpectedly," Harley-Davidson spokesman Bob Klein said Wednesday.

Two accidents related to the problem were reported, but none resulted in injury, Klein said.

The defect resulted from a design flaw in the six-speed transmission, which replaced the five-speed on the Dyna to make for a smoother ride at highway speeds and increase fuel efficiency, Klein said.

The redesign also resulted in a change to the front forks, chassis and a wider rear tire.

Shipments of the 2006 Dyna had been delayed but resumed after a change to production, he said.

Harley-Davidson shares rose $1.20, or 2.2 percent, to $55.67 in Wednesday afternoon trading on the New York Stock Exchange, amid a general gain in market prices on optimism over consumer spending this holiday season.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Unclassified
KEYWORDS: gearhead; harley; motorcycle; motorcycles; recall
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To: -YYZ-

wait honda motto started "follow..."

You really need to relax and stop assuming.


There really is no need to be so defensive. Just ride safe, keep the rubber side down.


251 posted on 11/25/2005 10:06:58 AM PST by longtermmemmory (VOTE!)
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To: -YYZ-

Then you wouldn't have spent so much time telling everyone who you hoped would listen how much better your bike is. It's either that or some type of envy. Fact is you spent a lot of time trying to tell people how much better your bike is and I truly doubt you convinced anyone.

It's too bad you couldn't just have a conversation on motorcycles and accept each style on their own merits.


252 posted on 11/25/2005 10:07:39 AM PST by blarney
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To: -YYZ-

It only got mentioned about 2times. Someday you will pick up a chick though hopefully you won't try and impress her with your mechanical knowledge.


253 posted on 11/25/2005 10:09:11 AM PST by blarney
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To: longtermmemmory

I will not argue with you that the Harley is attractive aesthetically. They are attractive and shiny.

I will also not argue with you that people have voted with their wallets.

Yes i am being sarc.


254 posted on 11/25/2005 10:10:25 AM PST by HOTTIEBOY (Maybe in your house. Not in mine.)
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To: -YYZ-

Its not the picking up part. Picking up is very easy, its the fact they stay and keep comming back for more that really helps.

Harleys are not bought for racing, the are bought for going.

Your opinion does not want to see it, but the Harley is a beautiful piece of machinery. I may be a bit outdated technology but it has stood the test of time. Old japanese bike do not have the longevity of desire that old Harleys have. Just a fact of life.

Perhaps you will be riding an old honda race bike years from now. Who knows?

But right now, its ALL good.


255 posted on 11/25/2005 10:11:51 AM PST by longtermmemmory (VOTE!)
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To: blarney

Actually, I never said anything about *MY* bike at all. It's the condescending arrogance of Harley fans that gets my goat.

"It's too bad you couldn't just have a conversation on motorcycles and accept each style on their own merits."

Same to you. Try discussing Japanese bikes without throwing around the word "rice", for starters.


256 posted on 11/25/2005 10:16:04 AM PST by -YYZ-
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To: longtermmemmory

As I said, the funny thing is, I don't have anything against Harleys. I think they're fine machines for what they're intended for (which, as they come stock, doesn't include any sort of contest of performance). I've considered buying (yes, gasp!, me actually buying) a Harley full-dresser for touring on, as the big Honda and BMW touring rigs leave me cold, and I believe Harley's touring cruisers are better in some ways than the Japanese competition's.

Longevity? Harleys are no more durable out of the box than Japanese bikes, in fact I'd say a bit less so. I know people who've gone over 100,000 miles on (liquid cooled, to be sure) Japanese bikes without ever opening the engine at all.

Years from now I expect I'll be riding a new Japanese bike. I like technological progress.


257 posted on 11/25/2005 10:20:56 AM PST by -YYZ-
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To: -YYZ-

Rice is a term that has been used on these bikes since they came around. It's was easiest to differentiate them from other metric bikes. DOH!

So go back to standing on the highest peak screaming "my bike is best" your name calling pretty much ruined any chance a credibility you had. Oh by the way the arrogance came from the people riding "rice" bikes go back through the thread and read, it seems you have a problem with comprehension that matches you lack of mechanical knowledge. Maybe they are both related I don't know, but at this point you have proven you really don't know what you are talking about and only want to be rude unless someone will agree with you. Don't waste my time.


258 posted on 11/25/2005 10:22:22 AM PST by blarney
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To: longtermmemmory
(akin to a Rolls-Royce no matter how bad the electric or lack of cup holders was still a Rolls Royce.)

Sort of like back in the 1980s when GM dressed up a Chevrolet Cavalier and sold it under the Cadillac line. It was pitiful and didn't sell very IIRC

We should all be thankful that our biggest motorcycle crisis in this country is over name brand plates and not as the ONLY means of transportation in some third world country.

Definitely agree with that.

259 posted on 11/25/2005 10:26:07 AM PST by billbears (Deo Vindice)
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To: HOTTIEBOY
When America builds a fast, nimble, affordable bike based on 21st century technology...

Then I won't buy it. Like I said, we all don't ride the same road. I want a bike that's slammed to the ground with the seat a mere 24" off the ground, 12" apes putting my hands at shoulder height, saddlebags, and room for touring bag. The same bike pictured in my profile page. That's the ride I want.

As for speed. I recently brought my engine in a bit with milder cams and reverse dome pistons. My original build with hot cams and domed pistons was just too hot (imho) for street use. I could break the rear wheel free in almost any gear with a twist of a throttle. Way more than needed or wanted. As it stands now, the bike is still a lot faster than I am.

1966 technology? Digital ignitions with multiple curves are 1966 technology? Here I thought they were still using points and condensers in 1966.

Sorry if any of my postings seem offensive. Allot of my riding buds ride harleys. They respect my bike and I respect theirs. But as soon as they give me this "real bike" crap, I show them what 13,000rpm, DOHC, 4cyl, fuel injected 396lbs looks like from the rear.

And if speed is important to you, I'm sure that means something. It doesn't mean a thing to me. I want to able to out accelerate Mrs. Jones sedan for safety reasons, and that's about it. Other than that, I'm never the least bit bothered when anyone passes me. That's not my road.

260 posted on 11/25/2005 10:26:43 AM PST by Melas (What!? Read or learn something? Why would anyone do that, when they can just go on being stupid)
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To: blarney

OH, did I hurt your feelings? Make you run to the moderator? Yeah, I get a little hot under the collar when "dicussing" things with your type.

Seems like you have a comprehension problem if you can't see the condescenion and arrogance in some of the pro-Harley posts.

OK, lets have a little test of general IC engine mechanical knowledge here. For example: what are the causes of and solutions to detonation in an IC engine?


261 posted on 11/25/2005 10:27:28 AM PST by -YYZ-
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To: blarney

Why is there any need for mechanical knowledge to work on a harley? The engine is the most basic IC engine made. Two cylinders, one carburetor, push rods, four valves. Suck, squeeze, bang, blow. That's it.
Try mapping a new DCI fuel injection if you want to test your knowledge.


262 posted on 11/25/2005 10:27:41 AM PST by HOTTIEBOY (Maybe in your house. Not in mine.)
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To: HOTTIEBOY
Exactly. That said it all right there. that is the reason people buy these chrome plated combines.

You know, maybe you just shouldn't speak for others? You know why I ride a Harley? Familiarity. I've always rode Harleys and they've grown on me. My 3rd or 4th street bike was a Harley, and I've been in love ever since.

Why did I start riding Harley's? My father rode one. He started riding in WWII and brought a love for motorcycles back with him. That's right, I'm a true 2nd generation biker. That's why I ride a Harley.

263 posted on 11/25/2005 10:31:14 AM PST by Melas (What!? Read or learn something? Why would anyone do that, when they can just go on being stupid)
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To: -YYZ-

May I?


264 posted on 11/25/2005 10:32:35 AM PST by HOTTIEBOY (Maybe in your house. Not in mine.)
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To: Hank Rearden
But they do make a lot of money on Harley-branded products, accessories and parts

Dropped by one of the local dealers to check the next availability to put on a new set of pipes I purchased a few months ago. The only thing I'll buy at a dealer is a new T-shirt from time to time. I can't believe they sell those leather jackets but I saw a couple people purchase them. I always thought they just hung them up for looks..

265 posted on 11/25/2005 10:32:50 AM PST by billbears (Deo Vindice)
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To: HOTTIEBOY

Knock yourself out.


266 posted on 11/25/2005 10:34:18 AM PST by -YYZ-
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To: -YYZ-

"hahahahaha, I just love it when people think that torque does anything on its own. Do you even know what exactly "torque" is? What "HP" is? The physics/engineering definition of these terms? And what they really mean to performance on the street?"

I do. I can even calculate horsepower if you give me the torque.

People who lord over others with their supposed superiority because they know the technical definition of torque or how to calculate horsepower, are irritating.

Torque: A turning or twisting force
HP=TORQUE * RPM / 5252

There, now you can't look down your nose at anyone.


267 posted on 11/25/2005 10:35:49 AM PST by Poser (Waving and posing)
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To: GOP_Lady; HOTTIEBOY

You'll just have to forgive him, he's ignorant. For whatever reasons, he decided to bring his prejudices to Free Republic. Obviously without knowing or understanding the conservative nature of most bikers, or groups like Rolling Thunder. Never mind the good those guys have done for the conservative cause, to this jerk, they're a bunch of idiots for riding Harley's.


268 posted on 11/25/2005 10:36:32 AM PST by Melas (What!? Read or learn something? Why would anyone do that, when they can just go on being stupid)
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To: blarney
"how do you post a picture?"

<img src="http://www.somesite.com/folder/imaganame.jpg">

The greater than and less than symbols tell the browser that this is an html instruction. This does require that the picture be somewhere on the net.

269 posted on 11/25/2005 10:41:16 AM PST by Poser (Waving and posing)
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To: -YYZ-
May I?



Knock yourself out.

Timing too high. Adjust timing chain lash or replace automatic advance actuator. oh don't have OHCs huh?
Running too lean. Take those damn K&N filters off unless you are going to compensate with bigger jets.
Running dry N2O? Hey if you are going to spray N2O you need to retard the timing a bit and put some hot plugs in. yeah and stop using regular gas.
270 posted on 11/25/2005 10:41:38 AM PST by HOTTIEBOY (Maybe in your house. Not in mine.)
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To: -YYZ-
And so what? Is there something inherently great about trolling along at low rpms? It eludes me.

I should have known I'd find your Harley bashing self on this thread sooner or later. It's ok that trolling along at low RPM's eludes you. It doesn't elude me, I love it. I've ridding for hundreds upon hundreds of miles at a time like that.

I don't get wheelies, stoppies, or weaving in and of traffic at warp 6. That's ok too. We're not all supposed to be the same. This constantly cutting at any taste different than your own is juvenile.

271 posted on 11/25/2005 10:41:39 AM PST by Melas (What!? Read or learn something? Why would anyone do that, when they can just go on being stupid)
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To: Poser

"People who lord over others with their supposed superiority because they know the technical definition of torque or how to calculate horsepower, are irritating"

No more so than people who make blanket statements about how "Torque is what gets the job done" or similar. That's all I was trying to get at. A HP number, by itself, tells you a little about the engine, although not enough because it doesn't say anything about the shape of the torque/HP curves. A torque figure by itself doesn't really tell you anything. For example electric motors typically generate their maximum torque at 0 rpm, when they're generating essentially 0 HP, but HP is the key figure when rating electric motors.

HP, over time, is what gets the job done. The area of the HP curve that you're operating under tells you what kind of performance is possible.

BTW, your formula assumes that torque is expressed in ft-lbs, and the constant of 5252 is missing the units to make the conversion work. From a strictly physics/engineering point of view, you understand :)


272 posted on 11/25/2005 10:42:15 AM PST by -YYZ-
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To: HOTTIEBOY

"Running too lean."

Ah, but WHY does running too lean lead to detonation?


273 posted on 11/25/2005 10:43:49 AM PST by -YYZ-
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To: -YYZ-

**OH, did I hurt your feelings? Make you run to the moderator? Yeah, I get a little hot under the collar when "dicussing" things with your type.**

Sorry I don't have feeling on a message board. I just pointed out the futility of your posts from that point. Grow up when you post and learn to control yourself or you just make your self ignored.

**Seems like you have a comprehension problem if you can't see the condescenion and arrogance in some of the pro-Harley posts.**

Like I said go back and read through this thread. I haven't posted on other Harley threads and know nothing about them. I do know what happened on this one and is all I have talked about. you seem to want to broaden your spectrum when your statements aren't accurate.

**OK, lets have a little test of general IC engine mechanical knowledge here. For example: what are the causes of and solutions to detonation in an IC engine?**

hahahahahahahahahahahaha, again shaking my head and chuckling.


274 posted on 11/25/2005 10:48:42 AM PST by blarney
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To: blarney
WWPR?

[What Would Prince Ride?]

......;D

275 posted on 11/25/2005 10:51:26 AM PST by Salamander (Cursed With Second Sight)
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To: -YYZ-

Too hot man, too hot.


276 posted on 11/25/2005 10:51:31 AM PST by HOTTIEBOY (Maybe in your house. Not in mine.)
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To: Melas

Hey, whatever turns your crank is fine with me. I'm perfectly happy to accept that not everyone looks for the same thing in a bike, but I don't often feel like I get the same respect back from many (most?) Harley owners.

But again, I could ask, is there something *inherently* (ie not a matter of taste) great about making power at low rpms? Certainly its a good model for making power in high duty-cycle engines like those in semi tractors, locomotives, ships or stationary generating plants. But for bikes its not at clear that there is any inherent advantage in it. In fact, the large displacements necessary for that type of engine performance results in large, heavy engines, and heavy is not a good thing in motorcycles, in my opinion.

As I've said, I would consider an H-D with this type of engine for a touring rig, but I don't think it is well suited to more sporting purposes. Buell's bikes show this - despite all the high-tech trickery used to get around it, you just can't build a competetive sport bike around a big, heavy, air-cooled Sportster lump. Buell needs to get a hold of the V-Rod engine if they must use an HD engine - that's a pretty good engine, in my opinion, and I'd be happy to have one, albeit in a different sort of bike than the V-Rod. The Street Rod looks pretty nice, though.


277 posted on 11/25/2005 10:51:40 AM PST by -YYZ-
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To: Salamander

ROFL! ! ! ! !


278 posted on 11/25/2005 10:52:01 AM PST by blarney
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To: blarney

"hahahahahahahahahahahaha, again shaking my head and chuckling."

Ah, so you can't, or won't, answer?


279 posted on 11/25/2005 10:53:12 AM PST by -YYZ-
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To: Salamander

WWPR?

A Honda CM400T with a great big Vetter Windjammer fairing?


280 posted on 11/25/2005 10:53:56 AM PST by -YYZ-
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To: HOTTIEBOY

Ah, but taking it one step further, why does too hot result in detonation?


281 posted on 11/25/2005 10:54:40 AM PST by -YYZ-
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To: blarney

Heh.
We can afford to laugh....;]


282 posted on 11/25/2005 10:57:26 AM PST by Salamander (Cursed With Second Sight)
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To: -YYZ-

You earn respect, you don't automatically get it. So quit trying to demand respect for your bike and let it earn it's own. it won't get it that way and neither will you. I sadi nothing bad about rice bikes and watched you guys post after post try and bash the Harleys. Somehow through this method you think you will get respect? c'mon be serious.

Rice bikes do not produce the same kind of readily available power that the big vtwins do. They don't have the same pull. Yes they are fast but I will still smoke them on a strip and have done it on a regular basis. I pointed out the good points of Japanese bikes because I am fair and as opposed to you understand their different purposes.

Buell is gaining popularity quickley in Europe. Isn't that the place with all the superfast bikes and such? Oh yea so are the older Japanese bikes without all the plastic and garbage on them. They are updating the brakes, chaning them over to monoshock systems and learning they are better than all this new plastic covered bikes are. The racer plastic covered bike is on it's way out just like the superfat tire on the Vtwin is on it's way out. Naked bikes are whats becoming popular and for good reason.


283 posted on 11/25/2005 10:59:20 AM PST by blarney
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To: ReaganCowboy
ST1300 is an outstanding choice. Doesn't have as much power as the FJR but is allot easier to get one. the FJR1300 has a 6 month wait. No dealers stock them. Did I mention the FJR was motorcycle of the year for 2004. The 2005 has even more power and standard ABS.
But the ST is definitely an outstanding sport tourer.
284 posted on 11/25/2005 10:59:52 AM PST by HOTTIEBOY (Maybe in your house. Not in mine.)
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To: -YYZ-

That soared right over without making conteact, didn't it?


285 posted on 11/25/2005 11:02:01 AM PST by Salamander (Cursed With Second Sight)
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To: -YYZ-
Hey, whatever turns your crank is fine with me. I'm perfectly happy to accept that not everyone looks for the same thing in a bike, but I don't often feel like I get the same respect back from many (most?) Harley owners

I'm sorry for that. It really shouldn't be that way. However, as you can see from Hottieboy's succession of insults and attacks here, it goes both ways.

But again, I could ask, is there something *inherently* (ie not a matter of taste) great about making power at low rpms?

Yes, and since you're thinking about a touring rig, you'll probably find out for yourself one day. The tractability of a low RPM engine is better, because you can stay in single gears longer. You'll shift less. Doesn't sound important, but when you're on the third leg of a 4,000 mile trip, it rocks.

As I've said, I would consider an H-D with this type of engine for a touring rig, but I don't think it is well suited to more sporting purposes.

Of course it's not as well suited to sporting purposes. This is what you and Hottieboy aren't completely understanding: Not everyone cares about sporting purposes. I sure as hell don't. I don't care who's bike is faster than mine. I just made my bike slower. I'm not moving in the "go-faster" direction.

286 posted on 11/25/2005 11:03:10 AM PST by Melas (What!? Read or learn something? Why would anyone do that, when they can just go on being stupid)
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To: -YYZ-

To be truly honest, after reading your posts. I am willing to bet you are looking at something like gixxer.com and getting your information from there. You are most likely cutting and pasting questions from that page or one similar to it onto this. Like I said I truly believe you have no idea what you are talking about. You guys all the sudden start talking about how hp doesn't give the whole story but sure were stuck on it a page or two back before I started bringing up torque. You know why? because thats all your limited knowledge knew about. I think you suddenly jumped on google or something and typed in torque and started going from there. You have shown you truly don't understand how engines work and there is no need to confuse you or cause you to meltdown anymore so you start calling names again. It's a waste of time because as you get shown more and more you don't know what you are talking about you will jsut keep jumping from racing, to cornering, to hp, to cost and whatever other things you have tried to show you have some kind of knowledge in. It's become a waste of time.

If it will make you feel better we can have a spelling bee and I will lose, for ya...I promise.


287 posted on 11/25/2005 11:04:04 AM PST by blarney
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To: blarney

Vance & Hines.


288 posted on 11/25/2005 11:08:31 AM PST by Salamander (Cursed With Second Sight)
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To: blarney

Again, you're making assumptions.

The respect I was talking about was for owners of non-H-D machines in general, and I see little enough of it from many H-D owners.

My last bike and my current bike would both pull any stock Harley, with the possible exception of the V-Rod, in a top-gear roll-on, despite the insanely tall gearing of 6th on my current bike. And then keep on going until they reached speeds unattainable to the Harleys, but as you say that is not important to many people (including myself, really, as I'd like to keep my license).

Yes, Buell is gaining popularity in Europe, but they still have a teeny-tiny portion of the market. I've yet to read a review of the new Buells with anything good to say about their handling characteristics, btw.

BTW, my last bike was a Kawasaki ZRX1100, just the type of non-plastic covered bike you refer to. My current bike is a Suzuki DL1000 (V-Strom). It does have some plastic, but not full coverage. It's definitely not by any means a race-replica. The engine is hung out on full display. It has a centrestand and hard bags and a windshield I can just look over the top off.


289 posted on 11/25/2005 11:09:21 AM PST by -YYZ-
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To: -YYZ-
A combustion chamber that is coated with carbon deposits starts to glow if it gets too hot. That produces enough heat to fire the mixture before it is ready. The same principle applies to dieseling whereas glowing carbon deposits in a combustion chamber act as spark to keep the engine going after the key is switched off. Ever hear that? Notice it has a distinct knock and ping to it? That knock is the sound of a mixture being fired too soon. That is detonation.
290 posted on 11/25/2005 11:09:35 AM PST by HOTTIEBOY (Maybe in your house. Not in mine.)
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To: HOTTIEBOY

From what I've heard, and from throwing a leg over one, the ST1300 is not the bike for the tall guy, say anything much over 6 feet tall. Other than that it's a good sport-touring bike, albeit a little bland.


291 posted on 11/25/2005 11:10:42 AM PST by -YYZ-
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To: blarney; -YYZ-; HOTTIEBOY
Nah, -yyz- is a long time poster in bike threads here on FR. He knows his stuff. Most of the Harley bashing on his part is just a reaction to percieved slights against him from bikers. He's actually not a bad sort.

The only real argument over bikes he and I have is over loud pipes. He's against them, and they're music to my soul. My heart sings when I listen to my pipes as I roll down the road, and he'll never get it.

The troublemaker in this thread is Hottieboy who by his own admission deliberately set out to insult Harley-Davidson. Total lack of respect from that kid.

292 posted on 11/25/2005 11:11:20 AM PST by Melas (What!? Read or learn something? Why would anyone do that, when they can just go on being stupid)
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To: -YYZ-

"BTW, your formula assumes that torque is expressed in ft-lbs, and the constant of 5252 is missing the units to make the conversion work. From a strictly physics/engineering point of view, you understand"

You have made my point in spades.

Here's my definition: Torque means never having to say "I shifted."


293 posted on 11/25/2005 11:11:31 AM PST by Poser (Waving and posing)
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To: Red Badger

Is this the first recall? I rode Harleys from 1970 – about 1998. Never saw a recall – or had a problem.
More Jap Crap propaganda?


294 posted on 11/25/2005 11:15:12 AM PST by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: blarney

"To be truly honest, after reading your posts. I am willing to bet you are looking at something like gixxer.com and getting your information from there. You are most likely cutting and pasting questions from that page or one similar to it onto this."

And you'd lose that bet. I don't think I've ever geen to gixxer.com. Actually I don't really frequent the bike boards too much anymore - too many idiots.

"Like I said I truly believe you have no idea what you are talking about. You guys all the sudden start talking about how hp doesn't give the whole story but sure were stuck on it a page or two back before I started bringing up torque."

I'm afraid you've confused my comments with someone else. I never said HP is everything, although I stand by my statement that as a stand-alone number it tells you a little more than a peak torque number. As for jumping around, we start talking about production bikes and you introduce your mystery Harley drag-strip winner, which despite being street legal sure sounds to me like its purpose built to run at the drag strip.

As for the rest of your comments, whatever. Just stick your fingers in your ears and go "la la la la I can't hear you." It's clear that you've got the usual Harley-fan myopia when it comes to performance.


295 posted on 11/25/2005 11:18:41 AM PST by -YYZ-
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To: Salamander

No, it didn't. I got the joke. WWPR = WWJD


296 posted on 11/25/2005 11:19:28 AM PST by -YYZ-
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To: HOTTIEBOY
Harley's are the slowest, heaviest, most outdated, motorcycles in the world, yet are some of the most expensive.

I have ridden a Harley coast to coast twice. I stopped numerous time to help Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki ect riders numerous times. I never had a problem, nor have I had to help a Harley.
297 posted on 11/25/2005 11:20:07 AM PST by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: Melas
"Total lack of respect from that kid."
And, how old are you?

I told you I did not mean to offend you or anyone else. Although I am very much capable of doing so.
Allot of my buds ride Harleys and we respect each other. If that is there ride then fine. But don't be like blarney and say that they are faster. That is ridiculous.
298 posted on 11/25/2005 11:21:33 AM PST by HOTTIEBOY (Maybe in your house. Not in mine.)
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To: Yohan
…or some jap bike trying to look like one.

I remember back in the 70’s – 80’s and all the Jap Crap makers were trying to say the V- Twin was inefficient and obsolete. Now they all have V- twin bikes.
299 posted on 11/25/2005 11:22:48 AM PST by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: Bon mots

Don’t forget Lucas Electrics.


300 posted on 11/25/2005 11:24:09 AM PST by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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