Jewish leaders to devise strategy

The Washington Times ^ | December 5, 2005 | Julia Duin

[neverdem]

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The Washington Timeswww.washingtontimes.com

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Jewish leaders to devise strategy

By Julia Duin
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
Published December 5, 2005

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A group of Jewish leaders meets in New York this week to develop a response to the religious right, which they say is eroding civil liberties and planning to "christianize America."

    Led by Abraham Foxman, national director of the Anti-Defamation League (ADL), and Rabbi Eric Yoffie, president of the Union for Reform Judaism, the private meeting is set for today, said an assistant to Mr. Yoffie.

    Both men were unavailable for comment Friday, and neither organization would divulge details of the meeting, including who else is attending and where it is being held.

    But the meeting is the culmination of a month of attacks by Mr. Foxman and Mr. Yoffie on conservative Christian groups, starting with Mr. Foxman's speech Nov. 3 at an ADL function in New York.

    "We face a better-financed, more sophisticated, coordinated, unified, energized and organized coalition of groups in opposition to our policy positions on church-state separation than ever before," he said. "Their goal is to implement their Christian worldview. To Christianize America. To save us."

    The chief villains, he said, were the Colorado Springs-based Focus on the Family; the Scottsdale, Ariz.-based Alliance Defense Fund; the Tupelo, Miss.-based American Family Association; and the Family Research Council, based in Washington.

    "This issue is serious enough for us to develop a strategy, and, clearly, our first task is to win the support of the American public," Mr. Foxman said. "We also need to come together with other Jewish..."

--snip--

    On Nov. 19, Mr. Yoffie compared the religious right to Nazis...

[Uri’el-2012]

anti-Israeli feeling in Christian circles has arisen as a result of replacement theology.

It started early, it was codified at the Council of Nicea.

Later preached by

John Chrysostom was a rabid anti-semite and by extension John is someone who hates the Christ as Y'shua is a Jewish Rabbi who hates tradition and teaches the Word of G-d.

b'shem Y'shua

[sauron]

I cannot let that post (#24) go unchallenged, as it has on FR in the past, so listen up, everyone!

1. Joel Barlow was a diplomat. He would say anything to get the Barbary-ians to sign off on the treaty. It would be a personal crowning career achievement for him.

2. Barlow, as you stated, was a chaplain, then gave up his Chistian beliefs. Would a man that unstable and unsure of his own beliefs be a good judge whom you would choose to follow at any time in his life?

3. (Most importantly) The USA was willing to tell the Moslems (Musselmen) anything, even LIE (gasp!) to put an end to it.

For more background, verse yourself in Islam, and then some history. It would not have been possible for the Moslems to sign an agreement with Christians unless they had been given the assurance that we weren't really Christian.

They extracted a lie out of us, that's all.

This isn't worth the paper it was printed on, and guys like YOU have nothing else in all of our national archives that you can come up with. ;) (And everyone here KNOWS IT!)

This government--the national legislature and every state legislature--has opened its sessions with prayer. Constant references to G-d are made in our money, in public speeches, and at inaugural addresses. References to G-d are made in State of the Union addresses.

The very idea that men are born with "inalienable rights" stems from...what source? Where are those rights, and from Whom do we get them? We know we don't get them from government....

Where, above and beyond government, do we look to? Where have we always, as a nation, as a people, as Americans, made reference to when we say that our rights don't come from government, but from above it? We're talking about the Creator mentioned in the Declaration of Independence. The idea permeates the Constitution, public speeches, and thousands of court cases.

Our nation was founded by G-d fearing men. It could not have been estblished by any other kind. We owe them a great debt.

Sauron

[Convert from ECUSA]

To them, conservative, observant Christians and Jews are to be feared much more than the jihadstinians, whom they think they can appease. Just like the secular lefties, they'll be in for a rude awakening if, Heaven forbid, the Jihadstinians ever took over. Like Lenin's useful idiots, they'd be the first on the head-chopping block.

[rmlew]

This is relativistic self-hating garbage.
God's commandment in Leviticus is absolute. Homosexual sex is a "toeva", an abomination, on par with incest, bestiality, idolatry and human sacrifice. It is an act against God, nature, and the community. The punishment is for the men of the community to stone the transgressors. This is Jewish law, which Foxman is comparing to the tactics or Ernst Roehm's gang.
Foxman and Yoffie's rhetoric are anti-Biblical statements, which belong in a diatribe in "Cabaret" or a lecture from a disciple of the Frankfurt School.
These two are anti-Judaists who live off anti-Semitism and the fear they stoke. Al Sharpton is a clown compared to them.

[jeltz25]

First, the main substance of my post was in response to the assertion that Israel bans Christians from citizenship(which I think you'd agree it most certainly does not do). If you'll notice, that was the first topic adressed.

As for the Treaty of Tripoli. You're view is certainly plausible, indeed probable in my view. Nations have been know to lie in the past. But it hardly brings me succor to know that a diplomat appointed by Washington and in the service of Adams, signed a treaty which was then ratified by the Senate and signed by the President, that was based on a fundamental falsehood. At the least, it certainly doesn't say much for the integrity of the framers and our early leaders.

I don't dispute that we are a "Christian" nation in some sense of term. THere are certainly plenty of quotes from the framers and plenty of evidence to back that up. But what kind of Christian nation? Surely we're not Catholic. So what Protestant sect? Or is it a more general notion of Christianity?

I think it's clear that various Christian as well as Deist/Natural Law theory was central to the framers' worldview. It is also clear, I think, that the nation and the government they founded was to be of an irreligious nature, notwithstanding the fact that religion certainly played a large role in daily life. But it was distinct from the Government. Read Madison's Remonstrance and Jefferson's Virgina statute on Religious Freedom for but two good examples of the founder's views on the relationship between government and religion.

It's true, this nation was founded by God fearing men. But it was also founded by men secure enough in that belief that they realized that there men who feared other Gods or indeed men who feared no God at all and that those men were to be on equal footing with themselves as far as the state was cocnerned.

That being said, I do think Foxman has just gone too far on this.

[theFIRMbss]

>replacement theology
>>It started early, it was codified at the Council of Nicea

A great study of
the various heresies
afflicting Christians

and establishing
an anti-Semitic base
is Hal Lindsey's book:

"Here is bestselling author Hal Lindsey's most shocking revelation ever: the disquieting facts about a new spiritual movement that would take over our churches and government and lead us to disaster. Just as current events are converging into the precise pattern the biblical prophets predicted would herald the return of Jesus Christ, a new movement has arisen with the Evangelical Church that denies it all--allegorizing away the clear meaning of prophecy. This movement, commonly known as Dominion Theology, reintroduces an old error that brought catastrophe to the Church and the Dark Ages to the world--the same error that founded a legacy of contempt for the Jews and ultimately led to the Holocaust of Nazi Germany. 295 pages, paper"

[Nachum]

I love Hal Lindsay. He has been predicting doom and gloom for the last 30 years. None of his prophecies ever quite work out.

His bank account is looking quite healthy though.

[justiceseeker93]

Abe Foxman's paranoia is at least somewhat explicable by the fact that he is Holocaust survivor. Nonetheless, he is paranoid vis-a-vis the "Christian Right." I doubt that "Rabbi" Yoffie's foolishness can be traced to the same etiology. Unless Foxman, Yoffie, et al. have undergone a miracle cure of their collective psychpathology, don't expect anything new to come out of this latest meeting. Obviously, a good many American Jews strongly reject their outrageous statements, so they are not the "Jewish leaders" they pompously proclaim themselves to be.

[Uri’el-2012]

bump

[Zionist Conspirator]

What gets me is that all these liberal Jews spent years trying to convince the Vatican to recognize Israel. When Pope John Paul finally did establish relations with Israel, they were dancing in the streets.

Why would it be so important to these people for the Vatican, who has been so pro-Palestinian for so many years, and were very much responsible for the spread of antisemitsim in Europe, to recognize Israel? Yet they view Evangelical Christians in America, the one country that has been good to the Jews, who are enthusiastically pro-Israel, with nothing but suspicion and contempt.

I'LL TELL YOU WHY, DAMMIT....

Most American Jews live in big cities, at least they did a few decades ago. They had friends and neighbors who were Catholics....Italians, Irish, Hispanics. They figure that if the Vatican recognizes Israel, all those nice Catholics will like them even better.

Most American Jews also had ancestors who came from rural areas of Poland, Russia, the Ukraine, etc. Their ancestors were persecuted by blond haired, light eyed, rural, nationalistic Christians. So they see Evangelical Christians, who also live in rural areas and are also nationalistic, and who also tend to have blond hair and light eyes, as the American equivalent to the people who persecuted them in Eastern Europe.

These liberal Jews are engaged in a combination of knee jerk racial prejudice and big city elitism. There is an old Yiddish expresssion...."goyishakop". It means the face of a goy (the face of a non Jew). You'll never hear a Jew describe a Black, Hispanic or Asian as a goyishakop. It's always someone with blond hair, light eyes and a turned up nose.

A mob of Blacks can start an anti-Jewish pogrom in Brooklyn and these liberal Jews just yawn. Left wing college students can call for the destruction of Israel and the liberal Jews yawn. But when a blond haired, light eyed, goyishakop with a Southern accent from a small rural town talks about Jesus, these idiots go nuts.

Bravo for touching on this idiotic "bumpkin-phobia" so many American Jews suffer from, and it's for the exact reasons you say! Never mind that the people who killed their ancestors in Europe were Catholic or Orthodox chr*stians, the fact that they live with these people in big American cities makes them "kosher," while rural Protestants (and when was there ever a pogrom in a Protestant country, other than Germany under a totalitarian pagan regime) have been cast into a role they have never actually performed. And of course, rural Southern Protestants who are Black are magically transformed into non-Goyim even though all non-Jews are goyim. American Jews can deal with people named Mary Elizabeth or Francis Xavier or Vladimir or Jose Rodriguez but put them face to face with someone named Caleb or Jethro or Jedidiah and they go into spasms of anxiety.

Ironically, the rural bumpkins of which Jews are so needlessly terrified read the Bible and get the idea that the ancient Israelites were themselves rural agricultural bumpkins who were very like themselves. I am sure there were very few Biblical Israelites who were in investment banking, the modern secular legal profession, or the "entertainment business!"

They are an embarrassment. At least the Orthodox, Hasidic and Sephardic Jews vote Republican.

Another irony is that I think contemporary Southern Fundamentalists are more like 'Ashkenazim than Sefaradim. Sefaradim are simply too laid back (like the French Cajuns). In fact, using the opposing forces of the English Civil war as a model I would classify them as Jewry's "cavaliers." I think Orthodox 'Ashkenazim are Jewry's "roundheads" (those 'Ashkenazim who are Orthodox are much stricter and more "uptight" than the Sefaradim), and despite the professional Confederate Puritan-haters I believe our Southern Protestants are very much roundheads.

Thank you for your post!

[Jaysin]

so they are not the "Jewish leaders" they pompously proclaim themselves to be.

very correct. I am an observant (orthodox) Jew and their names or the ADL is never mentioned once. It's fair to say that 99% of kids in orthodox schools have never heard of "Abe" or "Rabbi" Yoffe. They are irrelevant to us as a new bacon & egg breakfast sandwich at Burger King!

The real Jewish leaders are a few 90+ year old sages that live in small houses in Jerusalem and Bnai Brak.

[Zionist Conspirator]

The real Jewish leaders are a few 90+ year old sages that live in small houses in Jerusalem and Bnai Brak.

This is true!

G-d bless the holy Sages! Far away from the bright lights of publicity, they are the ones who keep the world going.

[The Fop]

The Sephardim vote Republican becasue they tend to be pretty religious and they don't have the goyishakop phobia, having grown up amongst Arabs, North Africans, Persians, Turks, etc.

This is why I believe that Sephardic Israelis are more hawkish than Ashkenazi Israelis. The Ashkenazis say "the Arabs are our cousins, why shouldn' we be able to make peace with them? Look, they even have hook noses like us". While the Sephardim say, "we grew up around these people and we'll trust them when they've been dead for a hundred years".

[Zionist Conspirator]

The Sephardim vote Republican becasue they tend to be pretty religious and they don't have the goyishakop phobia, having grown up amongst Arabs, North Africans, Persians, Turks, etc.

This is why I believe that Sephardic Israelis are more hawkish than Ashkenazi Israelis. The Ashkenazis say "the Arabs are our cousins, why shouldn' we be able to make peace with them? Look, they even have hook noses like us". While the Sephardim say, "we grew up around these people and we'll trust them when they've been dead for a hundred years".

Well . . . yeah, that's one way of looking at it. But who eats peas during Pesach?

All kidding aside, I believe the stricter, more uptight attitude of Orthodox 'Ashkenazim is closer to the outlook of Southern American Protestantism. The Sefaradim don't even divide into "branches," which in one sense is good (since you don't have separate yet allegedly equal "movements within Judaism"), but the esnoga parking lot is full of cars on Shabbat morning.

You'll have to exucuse me. The lax attitude of Sefaradim has led to a movement among them that accepts Biblical criticism and looks down its nose at Orthodox 'Ashkenazim for being "chr*stians who don't realize it." Granted that most anti-religious Jews in America (in fact, most Jews period) are 'Ashkenazim, and this might lead Southern Fundamentalists to assume that Sefaradim are more like them, and I honestly believe that it's the other way around.

What you say about the more hawkish position of Sefaradim in Israel is true, but I wasn't referring to the Israeli political spectrum in my post.

[SJackson]

Abe Foxman's paranoia is at least somewhat explicable by the fact that he is Holocaust survivor. Nonetheless, he is paranoid vis-a-vis the "Christian Right."

Based on a misguided notion that the Holocaust was a Christian undertaking? Possible for some survivors, but he was saved from death by Catholics willing to risk the same fate. He knows better.

[SJackson]

To my Christian friends on FR: Foxman and Yoffie are not Jews. Their religion is Marxism, their dogma is Secular Humanism. These vermin hate America and hate Israel. Foxman was even thrown out of his own N.J. synogogue for his anti-Israel views. In particular, please ignore what thse cockroaches have to say about anything. In general also please completely ignore any comment a "Jew" or "Jewish leader" makes if you see "Reform" anywhere in their description. What many of us call "Deformed" Judiasm is a dead sect which does not represent the views of religious Jews. Their members are dying off (not soon enough, especially in Palm Beach), intermarrying and having abortions. Meanwhile 77% of religious Jews voted for George W. Bush in 2004. They are having on average 5 children per family. The future face of American Jews will be very different from the Foxman/Yoffie scumbags you see today.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but personally I think the "deformed" nonsense is counterproductive. But who knows, maybe non-Orthodox Jews will die off, a good thing.

[Zuben Elgenubi]

your post #30. I can't fathom the bile you pent up inside. Take care of your heart because either you are attempting to incite the populace or you wholeheartedly believe (you don't impress me as a 50/50 person). Your heart will expode with so much anger. Your mind is already gone. Now your lifesupport is in jeopardy.

[montag813]

I can't fathom the bile you pent up inside. Take care of your heart because either you are attempting to incite the populace or you wholeheartedly believe

Huh? Foxman and Yoffie are scumbags. How does reciting that fact make me "pent up" with bile? Athiests and Marxists who call themselves "Jewish" leaders are a grave threat to Jews everywhere. Foxman's disgusting antics surrounding "The Passion" led to some disturbing commentary here on FR by people who believed he really spoke for Jews. Foxman needs to be defunded and shunned by all Jews. Yoffie is just a creep not even worthy of further comment. You disagree? Then it is YOU whose opinion is unfathomable.

[JSDude1]

America ~WAS~ a Christian nation (granted with Rationalist underpinnings) which means that it was both a product of Christianity (ala the Reformation) ~or have you ever heard of the Puritains (..And they're not the only ones), and Rationalism..see John Locke (though he was ~BOTH~ a Christians and a Rationalist...)!

I too have run across this treaty and you will not get away with saying that this is "evidence" of America as not a Christian nation, Sauron is Correct, The only way that the Muslims would agree to stop attacking the United States, and to grant us equal trading rights was to say (..yes lie) that "America was not a Chistian nation", of which I do not condone (LYING)- I wish they had just kick the stuffing out of these Muslim priates instead of agreeing on wording that was ~not~ true.

AND so I was wrong about Israel granting citizenship to Christians (I did not believe that they still do that, but maybe they do..) I also know about they're Muslim Arab Legislators because they had an Arab population at independence in 1948, but maybe you are correct on that point that they do ~STILL~ allow Christians to become citizens? It really doesnt' matter, I was just pointing out how rare it is for a nation to grant minority religions protection to practice as they please. The only nations to do so that I can recally have been those based on Judeo-Christian values such as America, Brittain, and (probably Israel): THAT WAS MY POINT ;D!

[jeltz25]

The main point of the post was about Israel. Am arab muslim can be elected PM of Israel, if he gets the votes. In fact the Arabs gave Rabin the votes he needed to sign the Oslo Accords and rehabilitate Arafat-isn't democracy grand?

The treaty of Tripoli stuff was just to point out an interesting fact. I largely agree with you about the motives behind it. I'd also say that we're more of a Lockean Christian nation founded on secular principles of liberty and freedom that arose out of a natural law/christian context/tradition than we are a Christian Lockean nation founded on Christian theological principles that are tempered by a secular considerations. The Lockean aspect is clearly superior to the Christian aspect(which nevertheless informs the Lockean aspect).