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Creation evangelist derides evolution as ‘dumbest’ theory [Kent Hovind Alert!]
University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee Post ^ | 17 December 2005 | Kayla Bunge

Posted on 12/17/2005 3:58:48 AM PST by PatrickHenry

A former high school science teacher turned creation science evangelist told an audience at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee last Tuesday that evolution is the “dumbest and most dangerous theory on planet Earth.”

Kent Hovind, founder of Creation Science Evangelism, presented “Creation or Evolution … Which Has More Merit?” to a standing-room only audience in the Union Ballroom on Dec. 6. The event was sponsored by the Apologetics Association, the organization that brought Baptist minister Tim Wilkins to UWM to speak about homosexuality in October.

No debate challengers

Members of the Apologetics Association (AA) contacted biology, chemistry and geology professors at UWM and throughout the UW System, inviting them to debate Hovind for an honorarium of $200 to be provided to the individual or group of individuals who agreed.

Before the event began, the “No-Debater List,” which was comprised of slides listing the names of UWM science professors who declined the invitation, was projected behind the stage.

Dustin Wales, AA president, said it was his “biggest disappointment” that no professor agreed to debate Hovind.

“No professor wanted to defend his side,” he said. “I mean, we had seats reserved for their people … ’cause I know one objection could have been ‘Oh, it’s just a bunch of Christians.’ So we had seats reserved for them to bring people to make sure that it’s somewhat more equal, not just all against one. And still nobody would do it.”

Biology professor Andrew Petto said: “It is a pernicious lie that the Apologetics (Association) is spreading that no one responded to the challenge. Many of us (professors) did respond to the challenge; what we responded was, ‘No, thank you.’ ”

Petto, who has attended three of Hovind’s “performances,” said that because Hovind presents “misinterpretations, half truths and outright lies,” professors at UWM decided not to accept his invitation to a debate.

“In a nutshell, debates like this do not settle issues of scientific understanding,” he said. “Hovind and his arguments are not even in the same galaxy as legitimate scientific discourse. This is why the faculty here has universally decided not to engage Hovind. The result would be to give the appearance of a controversy where none exists.”

He added, “The faculty on campus is under no obligation to waste its time supporting Hovind’s little charade.”

Kent Hovind, a former high school science teacher turned creation science evangelist, said that evolution is the "dumbest and most dangerous theory on planet Earth" at a program in the Union on Dec. 6.

Hovind, however, is used to being turned down. Near the end of his speech, he said, “Over 3,000 professors have refused to debate me. Why? Because I’m not afraid of them.”

No truths in textbooks

Hovind began his multimedia presentation by asserting that evolution is the “dumbest and most dangerous” theory used in the scientific community, but that he is not opposed to science.

“Our ministry is not against science, but against using lies to prove things,” he said. He followed this statement by citing biblical references to lies, which were projected onto screens behind him.

Hovind said: “I am not trying to get evolution out of schools or to get creation in. We are trying to get lies out of textbooks.” He added that if removing “lies” from textbooks leaves no evidence for evolutionists’ theory, then they should “get a new theory.”

He cited numerous state statutes that require that textbooks be accurate and up-to-date, but said these laws are clearly not enforced because the textbooks are filled with lies and are being taught to students.

Petto said it is inevitable that textbooks will contain some errors.

“Sometimes, this is an oversight. Sometimes it is the result of the editorial and revision process. Sometimes it is the result of trying to portray a rich and complex idea in a very few words,” he said.

The first “lie” Hovind presented concerned the formation of the Grand Canyon. He said that two people can look at the canyon. The person who believes in evolution would say, “Wow, look what the Colorado River did for millions and millions of years.” The “Bible-believing Christian” would say, “Wow, look what the flood did in about 30 minutes.”

To elaborate, Hovind discussed the geologic column — the chronologic arrangement of rock from oldest to youngest in which boundaries between different eras are marked by a change in the fossil record. He explained that it does not take millions of years to form layers of sedimentary rock.

“You can get a jar of mud out of your yard, put some water in it, shake it up, set it down, and it will settle out into layers for you,” he said. Hovind used this concept of hydrologic sorting to argue that the biblical flood is what was responsible for the formation of the Grand Canyon’s layers of sedimentary rock.

Hovind also criticized the concept of “micro-evolution,” or evolution on a small, species-level scale. He said that micro-evolution is, in fact, scientific, observable and testable. But, he said, it is also scriptural, as the Bible says, “They bring forth after his kind.”

Therefore, according to the Bible and micro-evolution, dogs produce a variety of dogs and they all have a common ancestor — a dog.

Hovind said, however, Charles Darwin made a “giant leap of faith and logic” from observing micro-evolution into believing in macro-evolution, or evolution above the species level. Hovind said that according to macro-evolution, birds and bananas are related if one goes back far enough in time, and “the ancestor ultimately was a rock.”

He concluded his speech by encouraging students to personally remove the lies from their textbooks and parents to lobby their school board for accurate textbooks.

“Tear that page out of your book,” he said. “Would you leave that in there just to lie to the kids?”

Faith, not science

Petto said Hovind believes the information in textbooks to be “lies” because his determination is grounded in faith, not science.

“Make no mistake, this is not a determination made on the scientific evidence, but one in which he has decided on the basis of faith alone that the Bible is correct, and if the Bible is correct, then science must be wrong,” he said.

Petto said Hovind misinterprets scientific information and then argues against his misinterpretation.

“That is, of course, known as the ‘straw man’ argument — great debating strategy, but nothing to do with what scientists actually say or do,” he said. “The bottom line here is that the science is irrelevant to his conclusions.”

Another criticism of Hovind’s presentation is his citation of pre-college textbooks. Following the event, an audience member said, “I don’t think using examples of grade school and high school biology can stand up to evolution.”

Petto called this an “interesting and effective rhetorical strategy” and explained that Hovind is not arguing against science, but the “textbook version” of science.

“The texts are not presenting the research results of the scientific community per se, but digesting and paraphrasing it in a way to make it more effective in learning science,” he said. “So, what (Hovind) is complaining about is not what science says, but what the textbooks say that science says.”

Petto said this abbreviated version of scientific research is due, in part, to the editorial and production processes, which impose specific limits on what is included.

He added that grade school and high school textbooks tend to contain very general information about evolution and pressure from anti-evolutionists has weakened evolutionary discussion in textbooks.

“Lower-level texts … tend to be more general in their discussions of evolution and speak more vaguely of ‘change over time’ and adaptation and so on,” he said. “Due to pressure by anti-evolutionists, textbook publishers tend to shy away from being ‘too evolutionary’ in their texts … The more pressure there is on schools and publishers, the weaker the evolution gets, and the weaker it gets, the more likely that it will not do a good job of representing the current consensus among biologists.”

Debate offer still stands

Hovind has a “standing offer” of $250,000 for “anyone who can give any empirical evidence (scientific proof) for evolution.” According to Hovind’s Web site, the offer “demonstrates that the hypothesis of evolution is nothing more than a religious belief.”

The Web site,, says, “Persons wishing to collect the $250,000 may submit their evidence in writing or schedule time for a public presentation. A committee of trained scientists will provide peer review of the evidence offered and, to the best of their ability, will be fair and honest in their evaluation and judgment as to the validity of the evidence presented.”

Make it visible

Wales said the AA’s goal in bringing Hovind to UWM was “to crack the issue on campus” and bring attention to the fallibility of evolution.

“The ultimate goal was to say that, ‘Gosh, evolution isn’t as concrete as you say it is, and why do you get to teach everyone this non-concrete thing and then not defend it when someone comes and says your wrong?’ ” he said. “It’s just absurd.”

TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: antisciencetaliban; clowntown; creatidiot; creationisminadress; crevolist; cultureofidiocy; darwindumb; evolution; fearofcreation; fearofgod; goddooditamen; hidebehindscience; hovind; idiocy; idsuperstition; ignoranceisstrength; keywordwars; lyingforthelord; monkeyman; monkeyscience; scienceeducation; silencingdebate; uneducatedsimpletons
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To: Senator Bedfellow
So I guess everybody's happy, right?

Now if I were to speak of everybody's happiness I run the risk of committing the fallacy of drawing conclusions from incomplete evidence or reading something that ain't there as you say.

But as far a me.... I'm overjoyed... thanks for asking..
481 posted on 12/17/2005 3:50:56 PM PST by darbymcgill
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To: Stultis
Now, the Weekly World News does publish antievolutionists.

Doesn't Batboy prove evolution?

482 posted on 12/17/2005 3:52:00 PM PST by RightWingNilla
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To: darbymcgill
Common EVO tactic.... Do your own research...

Common creationist tactic - Lie & duck!

483 posted on 12/17/2005 3:52:32 PM PST by shuckmaster (An oak tree is an acorns way of making more acorns)
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To: PatrickHenry
Posted by Patrick Henry, the Creationist.

Oops, sorry! The real Patrick Henry, the Creationist, is dead.

484 posted on 12/17/2005 3:53:08 PM PST by razorbak
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To: darbymcgill

Well, there you go.

485 posted on 12/17/2005 3:59:07 PM PST by Senator Bedfellow
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To: PatrickHenry

Darwin lovers don't like to debate...every time they do, they lose. They would rather scream and yell and hide behind the status quo...hateful atheists ...

486 posted on 12/17/2005 4:01:08 PM PST by eleni121 ('Thou hast conquered, O Galilean!' (Julian the Apostate))
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To: shuckmaster

Can you honestly reply that you've never read, heard, or seen posted evidence that some of Darwin's original postulations have been debunked or "revised to fit current knowledge"?

487 posted on 12/17/2005 4:02:08 PM PST by darbymcgill
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To: RightWingNilla
Doesn't Batboy prove evolution?

Yet another joke at the expense of the Clown Prince of AstroPhysics, aka the Freeper formerly know as "medved" (and about 20 other screen names since that one) and his faithful mascot, Splifford the ASCII Bat?

488 posted on 12/17/2005 4:07:34 PM PST by longshadow
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To: razorbak
The real Patrick Henry, the Creationist, is dead.

So they tell me. It may interest you to know that he died in 1799, sixty years before Darwin published Origin of Species (in 1859), so it's difficult to imagine how the original PH could have been anything other than a creationist. But perhaps I've missed some profound point you were trying to make.

489 posted on 12/17/2005 4:08:37 PM PST by PatrickHenry (... endless horde of misguided Luddites ...)
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To: freedumb2003
"God, I love the self-importance of the Holy Rollers. So, now 80% of all Americans are under Satan's sway? Satan is laughing all right."

I'm not important nor am I a "holy Roller". If that is how many believe evolution, then they are following satan. Yeah, he's laughing his arse off at YOU! Isn't it a pity how you must resort to name calling - "Holy Roller" to feel superior, at least for the moment.

Yeah, it's true:


[14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and FEW there be that find it.

Thank you for backing that statement up - 80%, you say ... .

"By getting those who profess to be closest to God (Megolomania anyway) to close their eyes to anything beyond the end of their noses, to "debate" by distorting (a form of lying) about the presented arguments, and by not using God's greatest gift -- the Human Brain -- to understand and use the tools given to us by science, Satan is registering wins up all along the Right side of the Culture wars.""

He gave each individual gifts. A brain is one of them. Like others in history, you can use it for good or use it for evil - Hitler, Darwin etc... You use it to mock Christianity, deny God and what He states about Creation. You are also quite presumptuous. I've read up on the evolving hypothesis of evolution, and found them to be wanting. They make NO sense at all and remains a hypothesis at best. Evolution is the religion for the godless and desperate who have no knowledge of objective science. Evolution defies the very laws they claim to adhere to. Evolution stands legitimate science on its head - evolution is utter nonsense.

Yes, lying, distortion ignoring the obvious are tools of the evolutionist. The Author of Science, God apparently isn't the same god you acknowledge that is if you acknowledge anyone but yourself and fellow atheists. Some day soon ... you're in for a nasty surprise - eternity where the sun doesn't shine. I feel sorry for you and hope you straighten yourself out before it is too late.
490 posted on 12/17/2005 4:11:14 PM PST by nmh (Intelligent people believe in Intelligent Design (God))
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To: Senator Bedfellow; Alter Kaker
The only one to claim it was millions of years old was an Aussie creationist named Cooper in the journal Ex Nihilo

Watch it, sport!

Yes the 28MY estimate is Cooper's, and it was published in ex Nihlo, but Cooper's a bloody Pom!

He is a/the leading light of the Creation Science Movement - it and him can be located at

Bill Cooper
Creation Science Movement
United Kingdom

His principal claim to fame appears as the author of After The Flood

Bill Cooper is a council member and trustee of the Creation Science Movement. He is married with two daughters and has recently been awarded an Honours degree by Kingston University (England) for combined studies in the History of Ideas (Religion, Philosophy and Political Theory) and English Literature. He has lectured on The Table of Nations, under the auspices of the CSM, in Germans, Belgium and at many venues in England including Leeds University.

He has written numerous articles for the Creation Science Movement and for the Creation Ex Nihilo Technical Journal published by the Creation Science Foundation of Australia, on the Table of Nations (The Early History of Man series), the historical Jonah and other subjects.

This book shows how European history can be traced right back to the flood and the descendants of Japheth, through contemporary accounts and a table of nations.
More Creteanist sources claim he is alos an archaelogist with a Th.D and a Ph.D.

Tried for a better photo, but do you know how many middleaged heavy-set Bill Coopers there are on Google?

491 posted on 12/17/2005 4:13:56 PM PST by Oztrich Boy (so natural to mankind is intolerance in whatever they really care about - J S Mill)
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To: Coyoteman
Hovind whines about how no one will debate him in a verbal setting where his 30 second sound bites take an hour to debunk, but I have yet to see him debate someone on a forum such as this where the audience is more science savvy than he is and his points can be torn apart as easily by the audience as it can by his official opponent.

Hovind, if you are listening, I challenge you to debate the scientists on this forum. I sure we could find enough scientists here that are willing to have a go at you. Let's see how well you do against specialists in the fields your 'science' putatively includes.
492 posted on 12/17/2005 4:14:24 PM PST by b_sharp (Science adjusts theories to fit evidence, creationism distorts evidence to fit the Bible.)
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To: darbymcgill

no. please give me an example.

493 posted on 12/17/2005 4:14:47 PM PST by shuckmaster (An oak tree is an acorns way of making more acorns)
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To: Ichneumon
Just because *you're* entirely ignorant of the evidence doesn't mean it isn't there.

..And just because *you're* sadly duped into believing such cultist B.S. doesn't mean it's evidence for anything.

494 posted on 12/17/2005 4:15:03 PM PST by sirchtruth (Words Mean Things...)
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To: Coyoteman; CarolinaGuitarman
Some day soon ... you're in for a nasty surprise - eternity where the sun doesn't shine.
490 posted on 12/17/2005 7:11:14 PM EST by nmh

Possibly another keeper. But the list is already long enough. I'll wait for something really spectacular.

495 posted on 12/17/2005 4:16:25 PM PST by PatrickHenry (... endless horde of misguided Luddites ...)
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To: Waywardson
But it's the "charge" that matters....

LOL!It's amazing to see how this cult of evolution takes over seemingly intelligent minds...

I've never seen so many smart people duped buy such obvious crappola, that which they would throw logic "holy" out the window!

496 posted on 12/17/2005 4:19:14 PM PST by sirchtruth (Words Mean Things...)
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To: sirchtruth

LOL!It's amazing to see how this cult of evolution takes over seemingly intelligent minds...

It is amazing. How does this happen?

497 posted on 12/17/2005 4:21:59 PM PST by ml1954 (NOT the disruptive troll seen frequently on CREVO threads)
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To: shuckmaster; darbymcgill
Keywords left out in that reply

honesty integrity, or perhaps in the place of those words just plain ignorance and stupidity.

498 posted on 12/17/2005 4:22:17 PM PST by RunningWolf (Vet US Army Air Cav 1975)
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To: PatrickHenry
where the sun doesn't shine


499 posted on 12/17/2005 4:23:49 PM PST by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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To: longshadow


500 posted on 12/17/2005 4:23:56 PM PST by PatrickHenry (... endless horde of misguided Luddites ...)
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