Split the Base Ping!
Okay, this is the proper thread to talk about disloyal Republicans and devious Democrats...assuming that anyone in that crowd is still awake.
I'm barely there, I think I'll call it a night.
I think it would be brilliant strategy to drive the Latino community into the arms of the Dems
Every Dem site I see worry the Republican opposition to Bush/Kennedy is a plot to drive Democrat voters to the Republicans in November.
The rats are going to divide and conquer themselves most likely. For one thing a significant percentage of their own voter base oppose amnesty. The AFL-CIO is likely to dump the rats if they push through an amnesty bill with the rinos.
Republicans just need to stick to their guns. On Immigration most people want border enforcement.
Democrats Will Use Immigration to Divide and Conquerby Rep. Steve King
Posted Mar 28, 2006 It reads like a page directly out of the Democrat's playbook on midterm elections. Let Republicans self-destruct by splitting from their base on a core issue. Senate Republicans this week will decide if the federal government will respond to 89 percent of Americans who believe illegal immigration is a serious problem.
Any bill that does not refuse amnesty, and require true border and internal enforcement will collapse public confidence in the GOP Congress, and therefore be the breaking point of the Republican Party. The bill passed by the Senate Judiciary Committee rewards lawbreakers with amnesty, plain and clear.
The temporary worker/amnesty bill from the Senate Judiciary Committee will cause every Democrat in Congress will jump onto it, because they know that this single issue is the opportunity to divide and conquer. If anything costs Republicans the majority this November, it will be this amnesty bill in the Senate that they are trying to force-feed to Congress and the American people.
In the face of bitter opposition from the majority of American citizens, the Senate Judiciary Committee passed a bill to reward millions of illegal aliens with legal worker status -- despite the fact these aliens have already proven their disregard for the laws of this nation. Beyond sending a message to potential residents and legal immigrants that we don't take our own laws seriously, this is a misguided and dangerous path for our nation, particularly in a post 9/11 world.
Any policy that reduces or eliminates the penalty for violating our immigration laws is amnesty. It is disingenuous for any lawmaker to claim they are against amnesty, but support these temporary worker amnesty programs.
Economically, these programs don't help our country, but hinder its growth. Americans are conditioned to believe that illegal aliens support our workforce, because they supposedly take jobs Americans will not do. The reality is, employers hire illegal workers who will work for much less than legal workers, driving wages down and making it impossible for legal workers to compete. There is no job Americans will not do. The hottest, most difficult, dirtiest and dangerous job in the world is rooting terrorists out of Fallujah. Marines are doing that job for $8.09 an hour.
The core of the strength of America has always been an ever-broadening middle class. The flood of immigration, both legal and illegal threatens an eventual destruction of the middle class and is resulting in the creation of a servant class. We cannot stand by while our middle class is eroded so that the ruling class in America can create a servant class for themselves.
We can stop illegal workers from taking jobs in the U.S. My New Illegal Deduction Elimination Act, or New IDEA, H.R. 3095, would eliminate the tax deduction employers can take on wages and benefits paid to illegal workers so it becomes a taxable event. The result would be to raise the cost of a $10 per hour illegal to a $16 per hour worker, creating the opportunity for American workers, shutting down the jobs magnet and broadening our middle class.
In addition, it would be ludicrous to base our national and economic security policy on the promise that temporary workers will return home once their worker permit expires. There has never been a successful temporary worker program in history.
History has proven time and again that legalizing the illegals won't solve the problem, it only serves to exacerbate it. Since 1986, Congress has passed seven amnesties for illegal aliens. The mass amnesty bill passed in 1986 that legalized 3 million aliens backfired, and the illegal alien population quickly doubled in a decade and tripled in less than 15 years. Further, dangling the prospect of citizenship in front of potential lawbreakers will only spur a mad stampede for the U.S. border to get in line for the next amnesty.
As a sovereign nation, we must control our borders and enforce our own laws. Ignoring our laws is not the path to maintaining a free, safe and prosperous society.
The House passed a comprehensive immigration reform policy in December that provides tools to secure America's future. H.R. 4437 does not reward any amnesty program and includes heavier border enforcement and construction of a border fence. The bill also provides for real enforcement in our interior, reduces the jobs magnet by requiring worker verification, and invokes penalties for local governments that provide sanctuary for illegal aliens.
The Senate must use these provisions as a baseline for their debate. This issue has pushed fed-up Americans to the abyss, and if we don't take the right turn, we deserve to be pushed into it.
I will never again vote for a Republican who votes in favor of a bill that grants amnesty to 12 million illegal aliens.
Eighty-nine percent of Americans is comprised of quite a few dems who oppose this as well. Does that mean both parties will split?
They want to cater to the 89% or whatever of the American public who want control of illegal immigration, and they want to cater to Latino voters.
Being savvy politicians who know what is most important to America, that being their own reelection, they have contrived an elegant tap dance. They ramble and they bloviate, they conjure up images of civil rights and the tired and huddled masses, and they expound upon their ramblings and bloviations. In short, they wax philosophical while saying nothing, exactly.
Their hope is that both sides, the border closers and the Latino hopefuls, will read in their ramblings and bloviations that hey, this guy is on our side.
They need to take a principled and enthusiastic position on one side or the other. It is not hard for me, a common nobody, to take a position. Why is it so hard for someone addicted to Washington DC? You either want to close the open border or you don't. There is plenty of time to consider issues such as separated families, good people vs bad people, economic pressures, perceptions of discrimination etc. All that in good time.
You either want to close the wide open borders, or you don't. Pick your side and weigh in.
CINO's are using the issue too.
A nation without enforceable borders is no nation at all.
US legal citizens will be disenfranchised because those whom receive amnesty will end up with twice the voting power as legal citizens. Mexican nationals will be able to vote for US president, and as dual citizens also participate in Mexican Elections. There is no provision for the illegal immigrant to renounce citizenship in any of these uninvited guest amnesty programs.
For all realistic purposes, the Mexican government is governing in the southwest but US citizens have no voice in these affairs. For example, consular cards issued by Mexico are valid IDs, and they lobby to create laws such as amnesty, and other social programs. They are working with trucking and ports, building a new port in Mexico to service the US. The Mexican government is making decisions effecting everyday life here in US proper, and their role will only increase,
Yet, even with the effects of Mexican government touching every legal US citizen, we are not eligible to participate in Mexican elections. In this future country without borders there is no plan for us to be represented equally, yet legal citizens will be paying most of the taxes for all the social services and new infrastructure that will be required.
With this scenario it really wont matter if the GOP losses or gains votes, the two party system and your vote will be irrelevant.
Perhaps a historical and international perspective might help : consider the irish immigration wave following the Great Potato Famine, and the signs : no irish need apply(for jobs). Did the irish ruin our country? Is Saint Patrick's Day any different from Cinco De Mayo? Then we have the israelis with their palestinian cheap labor-workers, a similar situation to our own cheap mexican labor-workers; and we're considering building a fence as well as the Israelis are doing. Perhaps we need a balanced approach : how to separate the wheat from the chaff : keep the good, hard working mexicans here as "wheat" and throw the "chaff" back over the fenced border. The Israelis are learning how to do it, why can't we?
Evryone needs to contact their Senator to FORCEFULLY and POLITELY inform them of their disgust with the government allowing these criminals to take advantage of our country.
I did not know this. These need to be compiled and referenced, as it is a great talking point. Anybody have an idea what these are?
Fernando Ortiz was a ‘landscape engineer’ on Long Island who had demanded to be able to vote, on the basis that he had been paying state and federal taxes for ten years. Actually, he had been stopped from casting a ballot by a poll watcher who had suspected his citizenship status, and (illegally, as it turned out) demanded proof of his identity and legal qualification to vote. Ortiz had won a multi-million dollar settlement against the Republican Party of New York in the subsequent “racial profiling and ethnic intimidation” civil suit, but he did not stop there.
Instead, with massive support from the ACLU and various Hispanic “immigrants rights” foundations, he had pressed his demand to be allowed to vote all the way to the Supreme Court…and he won. The Supreme Court, in its famous 5-4 decision, ruled that negligence in securing America’s borders against illegal immigration on the part of the federal government, could not be held against “undocumented workers who played by the rules and paid their taxes,” once they were established in America—legally or not. The federal government had not taken reasonable efforts to secure the border, and had not pursued "undocumented workers" in the USA. Instead, it openly permitted them most of the benefits of citizenship, and it collected their taxes. "No taxation without representation!" was the cry heard all the way to the Supreme Court. The State of New York had then sleep-walked through an aimless and desultory case for denying the vote—and citizenship—to “undocumented workers.”
Following Ortiz v. New York, a stunned America woke up to discover that there were not only an amazing twenty-two million illegal aliens hiding in plain sight across the land, but that eight million of them immediately qualified to vote. In a nation split 50-50 down party and ideological lines, these eight million new voters were recognized to be the certain majority-makers in future elections, and both parties set record lows for cravenness in pandering to their “needs.” Chief among their “needs” were liberal new family reunification laws, and these instant citizens—illegal aliens only a year before—began bringing the remainders of their families to the USA. Legally.
Overnight, wavering Democrat states became locks, and swing states with large Hispanic populations went solidly “blue.” The result was the recent election which had brought Gobernador Deleon to power in Nuevo Mexico, and had also brought radical Democrats to power in the White House and both houses of congress.
Thus had come the political tsunami which swept all before it, a tidal wave triggered by an undocumented lawn maintenance worker named Fernando Ortiz.
Okay, this is the proper thread to talk about disloyal Republicans and devious Democrats...assuming that anyone in that crowd is still awake.
I'm barely there, I think I'll call it a night.
Anyone have a betting pool yet on how soon one of these marches turns into a full scale riot of tens of thousands?
Lets see....we probably have 20 to 30 Million illegals. Nicer to use the lower figure of 12 million....no big deal eh?
The bill before the Senate would allow all of them to bring in their relatives.
Millions more will rush to the US as their last chance to get in.
So in a few short years we will go from 20 to 30 million to 100 million.
This is what the Democrats want. Flood the country with working poor masses. This will make up their future voting block and be the vehicle to remain in power.
What is the Democrat position on illegal immigration? It sounds like the Democratic base is unified in support of illegal immigration. Is this true?
They did it before the 2000 election also.