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Moose, not men, blamed for mammoth extinction
Globe and Mail ^ | 5-11-06 | ANNE MCILROY

Posted on 05/11/2006 7:11:10 PM PDT by SJackson

Humans have been blamed for slaughtering woolly mammoths and other large ice-age animals into extinction, but new evidence from Yukon suggests this isn't the case.

Moose were to blame, at least in part, says Dale Guthrie, a researcher at the University of Alaska.

He has found evidence that the climate in Yukon and Alaska was warming between 13,000 and 10,000 years ago, around the time a wave of human hunters moved into North America from Asia. The North was changing from a grassland to a boreal forest and tundra, he says. Moose also arrived, and were better adapted to digest the new, woodier plants that were taking over.

A close examination of the fossil record suggests moose and other browsers probably competed against the mammoths and other ice-age grazers for food, Dr. Guthrie says.

In this week's edition of the British journal Nature, he makes the argument for a less bloody ending to the mystery of what happened to the mammoths, mastodons, camels, giant sloths, horses and beavers as big as black bears that once lived in North America.

They disappeared from the continent around the same time adept hunters known as the Clovis people moved in. Many scientists argue that the timing was not a coincidence. The blitzkrieg theory, put forward in the 1960s, argued that people quickly destroyed the naive beasts unaccustomed to attacks from humans.

Dr. Guthrie says his evidence doesn't support the idea that animals died in a bloodbath. But it does back up a competing, although less popular, theory that says the warming climate led to their demise.

He examined more than 600 bones in Alaska and the Yukon territory, sifting through them to get several dozen from the period when the Clovis began populating North America.

He found that three animals -- bison, an elk-like creature called a wapiti and moose -- all increased their numbers during human colonization.

As people moved in from Asia, Dr. Guthrie's fossil finds show that moose moved with them. They were better at digesting the available food than mammoths and horses.

Horses, he says, were already decreasing in both size and number in the North before the Clovis people arrived. The horses disappeared before the mammoths, which is a blow to the keystone theory of the extinctions. It says that mammoths were a key species because they ripped out growing forests and kept the land more open for other grazers. Humans hunted them to extinction, which led to the demise of other herbivores. But if the horses died first, the theory doesn't stand, Dr. Guthrie says.

He also says that many large animals, including camels, giant beavers, ground sloths, mastodons, short-faced bears and sabre-tooth cats all disappeared from the fossil record in the North before the Clovis people arrived.

His work suggests that humans are not to blame for the fact that North America has so few big animals compared with Africa. The North is where the encroaching humans first encountered the large beasts. If they didn't kill them in Yukon and Alaska, he says, it doesn't makes sense that they exterminated the same animals as they slowly moved further south.

But others aren't so sure. Researchers have proposed that disease carried by humans may have jumped to their dogs, and then to wild animals.

Anthony Barnosky, a paleobiologist at the University of California in Berkeley, argues that both humans and the shifting climate were to blame. Further south on the continent, the extinction of the large animals happened later, during a period when there is solid evidence humans were hunting them.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: cheese; globalwarming; godsgravesglyphs; mammoth; moose; moosecheesesister; sister
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I will no longer feel guilt over my ancestors treatment of the Wolly Mammoth
1 posted on 05/11/2006 7:11:11 PM PDT by SJackson
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To: SJackson

The mammoth was the paleolithic SUV, it deserved to die.


2 posted on 05/11/2006 7:12:47 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Never a minigun handy when you need one.)
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To: SJackson

Those darned mooses and their evil SUVs did it!


3 posted on 05/11/2006 7:12:47 PM PDT by Bob
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To: SJackson

"Follow the Cheese, Luke."


4 posted on 05/11/2006 7:13:31 PM PDT by PoorMuttly (Free Mexico)
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To: SJackson

Balderdash! Moose are responsible for biting my sister!


5 posted on 05/11/2006 7:13:50 PM PDT by Revolting cat! ("In the end, nothing explains anything.")
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To: SJackson
"I was always suspicious of Moose and Squirrel" - Boris
6 posted on 05/11/2006 7:13:55 PM PDT by Hodar (With Rights, come Responsibilities. Don't assume one, without assuming the other.)
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To: SJackson
If not the Moose, then the Caribou!

Talk about success, this animal has a full 1/4 of the Earth's land surface given over to its grazing needs.

7 posted on 05/11/2006 7:14:23 PM PDT by muawiyah (-)
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To: SJackson

aw come on, it was the illegal moose invasion ... :)


8 posted on 05/11/2006 7:14:30 PM PDT by kinoxi
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To: Bob

Remember the episode of 'Northern Exposure' where a backwoods guy chainsawed a wooly for meat?


9 posted on 05/11/2006 7:15:51 PM PDT by Westlander (Unleash the Neutron Bomb)
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To: Westlander

You mean Hollings, I miss that show.


10 posted on 05/11/2006 7:16:31 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Never a minigun handy when you need one.)
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To: cripplecreek
I miss that show.

NE was ahead of its time. Too bad its humor was too subtle for American tastes.

11 posted on 05/11/2006 7:18:06 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (Any guest worker program that does not require application from the home country is Amnesty)
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To: SJackson
I will no longer feel guilt over my ancestors treatment of the Wolly Mammoth

Jeeze. I must have missed the e-mail. Was I supposed to feel guilt over that one too?

Between the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Atlantic Slave Trade and the arrest of Susan B. Anthony, I have been so damn busy with guilt that it's hard to keep up.

We need a way to automate this stuff.

12 posted on 05/11/2006 7:22:46 PM PDT by Ditto
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To: SJackson

Is this where I can finally say, "All your Moose are belong to us"?


13 posted on 05/11/2006 7:24:39 PM PDT by baseballmom
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To: freedumb2003

The greatest moments of that show always had to do with death and funerals. One of Maggies boyfriends getting killed by a satellite and the trebuchette funeral for Chris's biker buddy.


14 posted on 05/11/2006 7:26:35 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Never a minigun handy when you need one.)
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To: SJackson

I'm suprised the "A moose bit my sister" routine has started yet.


15 posted on 05/11/2006 7:26:45 PM PDT by Dead Dog
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To: freedumb2003
Subtle? Okay, explain the bubble boy plot line. It JTS'd way too soon for all of its potential.

Probably didn't help that Rob Morrow bailed. Maybe he saw what was coming?

Maybe the mammoth was just too stupid to survive? Global warming/climate change?

I fell asleep listening to C2CAM last night. A "cryptozoologist" said the sabre toothed tiger was pretty dumb compared to some other cat. Perhaps that was the
case with the mammoth?

16 posted on 05/11/2006 7:29:21 PM PDT by Calvin Locke
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To: cripplecreek
The greatest moments of that show always had to do with death and funerals

That was great, but the native Aleutian lady (who, according to all accounts playd her part as she lives her life), was so funny. The episode when she went to the city still stays in my mind!

(headed for IMDB to get the details)

17 posted on 05/11/2006 7:30:28 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (Any guest worker program that does not require application from the home country is Amnesty)
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To: freedumb2003

NE was a great show...very relaxing. Love "Numbers"!! It's noticeable that the show is also not "intense".


18 posted on 05/11/2006 7:32:10 PM PDT by Sacajaweau (God Bless Our Troops!!)
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To: Calvin Locke
I fell asleep listening to C2CAM last night. A "cryptozoologist" said the sabre toothed tiger was pretty dumb compared to some other cat. Perhaps that was the case with the mammoth?

C'mon. It was a very funny TV show. No need to get angry.

19 posted on 05/11/2006 7:33:58 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (Any guest worker program that does not require application from the home country is Amnesty)
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To: SJackson
I heard it was a redneck driving a white van
20 posted on 05/11/2006 7:41:42 PM PDT by Oztrich Boy (Natural Selection is the Free Market : Intelligent Design is the Centrally Planned Economy)
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To: SJackson


Actually, even newer evidence shows it's all Bush's fault...


21 posted on 05/11/2006 8:07:21 PM PDT by Tzimisce (How Would Mohammed Vote? Hillary for President! www.dndorks.com)
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To: SJackson
He has found evidence that the climate in Yukon and Alaska was warming between 13,000 and 10,000 years ago, around the time a wave of human hunters moved into North America from Asia

Proof that humans cause global warming.

22 posted on 05/11/2006 8:25:29 PM PDT by stop_fascism
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To: freedumb2003
I'm not angry. And I didn't that it wasn't a funny show.

Just that they [producers] squandered and mishandled what should have been a long running classic.

23 posted on 05/11/2006 8:47:23 PM PDT by Calvin Locke
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To: Calvin Locke
Just that they [producers] squandered and mishandled what should have been a long running classic.

Jumped the shark early. Yes, I agree that is sad.

24 posted on 05/11/2006 8:49:15 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (Any guest worker program that does not require application from the home country is Amnesty)
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To: SJackson

Mynd you, møøse bites Kan be pretty nasti...


25 posted on 05/11/2006 8:52:56 PM PDT by RichInOC ("On second thought, let us not go to Camelot. 'Tis a silly place.")
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To: SJackson

My senator, Debbie Stabenow, proves that mammoths evolved into fat communists.


26 posted on 05/11/2006 8:57:34 PM PDT by sergeantdave (And though getting up in the world attracts attention, it does not establish solid worth.)
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To: sergeantdave
I thought it was that one from Maryland. The one that has a cow when ever money is spent on science, not preceded by "social".

I guess that makes two.

27 posted on 05/11/2006 9:09:17 PM PDT by Calvin Locke
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To: Dead Dog
I'm suprised the "A moose bit my sister" routine has started yet.

It did, you must have missed it. See post #15.

28 posted on 05/11/2006 9:15:21 PM PDT by ASA Vet (Those who know don't talk. Those who talk don't know.)
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To: freedumb2003
Speaking of which: Now part of TV history can be yours (THE "NORTHERN EXPOSURE" BAR IS FOR SALE)
29 posted on 05/11/2006 10:25:16 PM PDT by Calvin Locke
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To: SJackson; texianyankee; JayB; ElkGroveDan; markman46; palmer; Bahbah; Paradox; FOG724; ...
(((GLOBAL WARMING PING)))



You have been pinged because of your interest in environmentalism, alarmist wackos, mainstream media doomsday hype, and other issues pertaining to global warming. Freep-mail me to get on or off. Please ping me to all note-worthy threads on global warming.



So was it moose or climate change that killed them off? Either way, it looks like we have here another trend of global warming and cooling from our past.
30 posted on 05/12/2006 9:37:00 AM PDT by DaveLoneRanger ("You're not going crazy! You're going sane in a crazy world!" - The Tick)
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To: SJackson; GreenFreeper

Ping


31 posted on 05/12/2006 4:58:06 PM PDT by proud_yank (A liberal's 'generosity' is limited to the funds available in someone else's account.)
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To: 75thOVI; AFPhys; Alice in Wonderland; AndrewC; aristotleman; Avoiding_Sulla; BenLurkin; Berosus; ...
from over a year ago.
 
Catastrophism
· join · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post new topic ·

32 posted on 06/16/2007 1:34:57 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Time heals all wounds, particularly when they're not yours. Profile updated June 15, 2007.)
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The Cycle of Cosmic Catastrophes: Flood, Fire, and Famine in the History of Civilization The Cycle of Cosmic Catastrophes:
Flood, Fire, and Famine
in the History of Civilization

by Richard Firestone, Allen West, and Simon Warwick-Smith


33 posted on 06/16/2007 1:35:30 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Time heals all wounds, particularly when they're not yours. Profile updated June 15, 2007.)
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To: blam; FairOpinion; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1ofmanyfree; 24Karet; 3AngelaD; 49th; ...
This one is a Blast from the Past, May 2006.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
Gods, Graves, Glyphs PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

34 posted on 06/16/2007 1:36:18 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Time heals all wounds, particularly when they're not yours. Profile updated June 15, 2007.)
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To: SJackson

a moose once bit my woolly mammoth!


35 posted on 06/16/2007 1:37:38 PM PDT by mdmathis6
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To: mdmathis6
...and møøslimbs will be responsible for human civilization extinction...
36 posted on 06/16/2007 1:43:46 PM PDT by null and void (Wherever liberty has sprouted around the world, we find its seeds were watered with American blood)
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To: SJackson

The whole humans-slaughtered-the-mammoths thing is a complete myth.

Look at ancient America... the native Americans could have tried to wipe out the buffalo until hell froze over and never would have gotten even close - until two things happened - the horse, and the firearm.

And compared to a mammoth, a 3,000 lb buffalo is small change.


37 posted on 06/16/2007 1:50:39 PM PDT by djf (Bush's legacy: Way more worried about Iraqs borders than our own!!! A once great nation... sad...)
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To: SJackson

Mind you now, moose bites can be pretty nasti.


38 posted on 06/16/2007 1:58:32 PM PDT by LibKill ("RUDY GIULIANI" is just "HILLARY CLINTON" misspelled and wearing a dress.)
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To: SJackson

Both rabbits and moose eat the same thing but don’t compete since moose eat high on the shrubs and rabbits nibble around the bottom. It would be hard to imagine moose out-eating mammoths unless there were a lot of moose. The most moose do now is leave the hedge kind of irregular.


39 posted on 06/16/2007 2:01:11 PM PDT by RightWhale (Repeal the Treaty)
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To: SJackson

40 posted on 06/16/2007 2:05:26 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: mdmathis6
a moose once bit my woolly mammoth!

Should have kept your pants up.

41 posted on 06/16/2007 2:08:37 PM PDT by decimon
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To: SJackson

Moose bit my sister


42 posted on 06/16/2007 2:09:45 PM PDT by Wheee The People (Go FRed)
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To: SJackson

unknown: moose

List this article on additional topic pages. Choose up to 4 additional topics using abbreviated names (i.e. “Activism/Chapters” is just “activism”.) A complete list of topics and their abbreviated names may be found on the topics list page.)

moose


43 posted on 06/16/2007 3:04:01 PM PDT by BenLurkin
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To: SJackson
"Dr. Guthrie says his evidence doesn't support the idea that animals died in a bloodbath. But it does back up a competing, although less popular, theory that says the warming climate led to their demise."

Calling Dr. Albert Gore, PhD, MD!! "Climate change" is implicated and there must be human responsibility for it!
44 posted on 06/16/2007 3:07:07 PM PDT by Enchante (Reid and Pelosi Defeatocrats: Surrender Now - Peace for Our Time!!)
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To: Oztrich Boy
I heard it was a redneck driving a white van But I didn't do it.
45 posted on 06/16/2007 3:41:05 PM PDT by rdl6989
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To: SJackson

of course it’s impossible that these animals could have been wiped out in a worldwide Flood /sarc


46 posted on 06/16/2007 3:45:07 PM PDT by balch3
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To: SJackson

So... Bullwinkle’s ‘dumb moose’ act was just an attempt to hide his guilt?

I should have suspected as much.


47 posted on 06/16/2007 5:53:02 PM PDT by Pelham (deport and impeach)
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To: Hodar

Great minds think alike.

Now that Moose has been found out, how soon before Squorrel has his dirty laundry exposed?


48 posted on 06/16/2007 5:57:19 PM PDT by Pelham (deport and impeach)
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To: sergeantdave
My senator, Debbie Stabenow, proves that mammoths evolved into fat communists

No, the mammoths died of extinction, fat Debbie hasn't gotten that memo nor have the others here in Michigan.........

49 posted on 06/16/2007 5:58:12 PM PDT by Hot Tabasco (The only UFO's I'm worried about are the ones without flashing lights........)
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To: Hot Tabasco
A mastadon once bit my moose.
50 posted on 06/16/2007 5:59:39 PM PDT by unspun (What do you think? Please think, before you answer.)
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