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1 posted on 08/30/2006 2:42:34 PM PDT by shrinkermd
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To: shrinkermd

It may say more about the state of our system of education than about the test.


2 posted on 08/30/2006 2:46:33 PM PDT by texgal (end no-fault divorce laws return DUE PROCESS & EQUAL PROTECTION to ALL citizens))
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To: shrinkermd

I find the title of your post interesting:

"SAT Scores See Biggest Decline Since 1975"

Then two posts later is the following title:

"Home-schooled students successful at A&M"

Do I need to comment further?


3 posted on 08/30/2006 2:47:28 PM PDT by Kimmers
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To: shrinkermd

This is a great way to improve affirmative action. All of a sudden, test results appear not valid enough to be considered for admission. "There must be something wrong with this year's test so we'll just have to look for other factors to admit this year's freshman class."


5 posted on 08/30/2006 2:50:36 PM PDT by Zuben Elgenubi
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To: shrinkermd

6 posted on 08/30/2006 2:50:57 PM PDT by Andy from Beaverton (I'm so anti-pc, I use a mac)
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To: shrinkermd
Scores on the new writing tests averaged 497 points out of 800, with females averaging 502, 11 points higher than males.

Test is sexist...

Males should have their score automatically increased by 11 points to make up for historical disadvantage.....

7 posted on 08/30/2006 2:51:00 PM PDT by Onelifetogive (* Sarcasm tag ALWAYS required. For some Freepers, sarcasm can NEVER be obvious enough.)
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To: shrinkermd
Must be Bush's Faulttm.
8 posted on 08/30/2006 2:51:26 PM PDT by COEXERJ145 (Free Republic is Currently Suffering a Pandemic of “Bush Derangement Syndrome.”)
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To: shrinkermd

I would like to see the SAT scores graphed against rap sales.


11 posted on 08/30/2006 2:58:46 PM PDT by Dumpster Baby ("Hope somebody finds me before the rats do .....")
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To: shrinkermd
I took the SATs in 1983 and I did poorly. I am now a Professional Engineer with a degree in EE and BA.

SATs do not mean a thing.
12 posted on 08/30/2006 2:59:56 PM PDT by Perdogg (Democrats = terrorists)
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To: shrinkermd

I couldn't access the original article to see if it had more details, but I would offer several possible explanations.

1) Kids are getting dumber. (I don't really think this is the case. I include it for the sake of completeness and because most people, out of PC-ness, refuse to consider the most obvious explanation.)

2) Quality of education is dropping. (I strongly believe this is true.)

3) The test is too darn long and the exhaustion factor causes scores to drop. (A good possibility.)

4) Many more kids are taking the test. (Highly likely. I think far more kids are encouraged to take it than in the past. If the test used to be taken primarily by college-bound A and B students, but is now being taken by a lot of C students, then the average scores are sure to drop.)

5) The test is faulty. (Actually, I'd bet that all the test tinkering would be more likely to raise scores. They have eliminated the analogies and a lot of the tougher questions, although in some areas, I think they claim to have added a higher degree of difficulty.)

6) The change in average scores is not statistically significant. (I'd have to have a lot more data to judge this.)


13 posted on 08/30/2006 3:01:04 PM PDT by generally (Ask me about FReepers Folding@Home)
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To: shrinkermd

Guess it's time to "renorm" them.


16 posted on 08/30/2006 3:04:04 PM PDT by reelfoot
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To: shrinkermd

And, who's fault is it?


17 posted on 08/30/2006 3:04:19 PM PDT by rightinthemiddle (Without the Media, the Left and Islamofacists are Nothing.)
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To: shrinkermd

It appears that the lavishly-funded Bush/Kennedy "No Child Left Behind" program has failed. What a surprise for the Bushbots!


18 posted on 08/30/2006 3:06:21 PM PDT by mdefranc
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I've got a cousin who's got two children: A son and a daughter, one year apart. About 4 1/2 years ago, the son took the SATs, and aced it, a perfect store. He graduated from Stanford, and I believe he's going to be starting at the Stanford medical school this term.

His younger sister took the SATs the following year, and she aced it too! She'll be graduating from University of PA at the end of this year. I think that she's looking at going to Georgetown for her grad school.

I can't believe I'm related to kids that smart!

Mark


20 posted on 08/30/2006 3:10:27 PM PDT by MarkL (When Kaylee says "No power in the `verse can stop me," it's cute. When River says it, it's scary!)
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To: shrinkermd

I tuk the SAT tess 3 times my first senur yer.

I tuk it agan 4 times my sekund senur yer.

Now, how many times do I haf to tak this dam tes?? Yu wood think that 5 times is mor then enuf!!!!


22 posted on 08/30/2006 3:13:47 PM PDT by Paloma_55 (I may be a hateful bigot, but I still love you)
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To: shrinkermd

If you take into account that they have dumbed down the test, they scores have really fallen.


25 posted on 08/30/2006 3:25:34 PM PDT by TheLion
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To: shrinkermd

Some guesses off the top of my head:

1. Four hours is a long time to be sitting in a room with a number two pencil and a bubble sheet.

2. Many students don't read a lot any more. I teach some bright male students who can read well enough, as long the reading consists of cheats for video games and short articles in Maxim or GQ. Most of my female students read more than the males since they're e-mailing all the time. None of them, however, read newspapers. A few read novels. A lot of them, both male and female, read the Internet, which is often fragmented and presented in tiny bits.

3. A lot of the standards that we used to have back when I was child in the late Stone Age (circa 1965) have vanished. I know teachers who smile and brag that they can't spell. Grammar lessons are scattered in the curriculum; it used to be the main subject of learning. Proper diction, smooth prose, and elegant style are virtually ignored in the modern English class and rarely imposed on a student, unless it is part of a lesson about an author or a specific book.

4. Just observing my society over the years I've noticed a decline in clarity as more and more of us adopt legalese as a our "main mode of communication" (speaking). At the same time, comedy has devolved from wit and banter (Newhart, Tom Lehrer, the Marx Brothers) into crudity and grossness ("American Pie," Larry the Cable Guy). You have to understand something about language to catch the jokes in a Marx Brothers movie; shouting a vulgarism followed by a fart doesn't require much verbal understanding.

5. Compare the lyrics of Motown to the lyrics of a rap artists.

6. And let me tell you about the science teacher who once told me with some apparent pride that "I don't read books."

So those are some ideas. Overall, it doesn't surprise me that the reading scores of today's students would decline.

My two cents worth.


26 posted on 08/30/2006 3:26:33 PM PDT by redpoll (redpoll)
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To: shrinkermd
Scores on the new writing tests averaged 497 points out of 800, with females averaging 502, 11 points higher than males.

The test is sexist and doesn't have enough essays about cars and sports.

27 posted on 08/30/2006 3:28:22 PM PDT by Moonman62 (The issue of whether cheap labor makes America great should have been settled by the Civil War.)
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To: shrinkermd
SAT scores drop, yet ACT scores post the biggest gain since 1991. Hmmmmm.....
33 posted on 08/30/2006 3:36:21 PM PDT by mjwise
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To: shrinkermd
The more money the government throws at education, the lower the performance.

We need mo money to ficks edookashun. Den it be all bettor.

I would bet that half the English majors today could pass this test.

http://www.okcupid.com/tests/take?testid=14457200288064322170

34 posted on 08/30/2006 3:42:41 PM PDT by Cobra64 (All we get are lame ideas from Republicans and lame criticism from dems about those lame ideas.)
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To: shrinkermd

Political Correctness has evidently dumbed down everybody.

On the one hand we are told that Latino illegal immigrants total 12 million people and this huge number doesn't even include their US citizen offspring. Then we are told that these folks don't fare too well in our education system.

Now I see that the brightest people in the our country can't see why our educational stats are down.

Kinda stupid to inject millions of people who don't excell in education into our schools then wonder why average performance stats are down.


39 posted on 08/30/2006 3:50:13 PM PDT by umgud (Do moderate muslims luv us infidels and Jews?.... Didn't think so.)
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