Posted on 11/15/2006 10:26:31 PM PST by RunningWolf
Dawkins is riding the crest of an atheist literary wave.
DAWKINS: The question of whether there exists a supernatural creator, a God, is one of the most important that we have to answer. I think that it is a scientific question. My answer is no.
(Excerpt) Read more at time.com ...
You're right. Dawkins doesn't know much about theology. His comment that any god must be "a whole lot bigger and a whole lot more incomprehensible than anything that any theologian of any religion has ever proposed" is trivial, sophomoric and trite.
In the technical sense, if God is, He exists. Though, if you take the word not so strictly... It's doubtless true that He does not exist as we do. He has no beginning or end, He Himself does not change, and His existence alone is dependent on nothing. I don't think human beings are capable of fully grasping any of that.
What God will say to him when he begs to get into heaven. (Unless he smartens up.)
For the very nature of divinity must necessarily enjoy
immortal life in the deepest peace, far removed and
separated from our affairs ; without any pain,
without danger, itself mighty by its own resources,
needing us not at all, it is neither propitiated
with services nor touched by wrath.
- Lucretius
YES! A very good description of this concept is in the book "Illusions" by Richard Bach.
This concept is about as hard for us to accept as a round earth concept would have been for those several hundred years ago. But if you accept the premise that God, our Source, is only spiritual then we (as offspring of that Source) must also be only spiritual.
Really?
My first thught was it was typical of Big Bang believers. Slanted from the first 2 or 3 sentences. That's where I quit reading. No one is going to shake my Christian beliefs and it would be a waste of time to read it. If I'm wrong because I didn't read further, so be it. After all, it s Time Ragazine. Not my usual source of info. In fact, never my source of infrmation
There is a way of looking at this concept which I like: There are two realms, the relative and the absolute. In the relative you are what you believe: maybe a sinning, sometimes sick, mortal human being. In the absolute you are the spiritual offspring of a spiritual Source with none of the flawed manifestations of the human consciousness.
Then you say God is a lier. How interesting.
If your Christian beliefs can be shaken by reading something, you might consider working on your beliefs. You always have the option (and responsibility) to evaluate everything you read and accept or reject what you want.
Also, you might consider the possibility that any belief should be often reevaluated and improved upon since we don't seem to understand the complete truth about anything - especially spiritual matters.
If your life exists only in this plain, then you are right. However, those of us who believe in the God of the Bible will tell you all day and night you are wrong but first you have to realize you really don't control anything and thats its the best part.
I'm so sorry you can't see the truth. It's all around you but you have to want to see it and that requires knowing not being in control is a gift. An open mind is a good thing but not so open that your brains fall out.
No. I say that it is possible to misunderstand the meaning of what was written about 2 thousand years ago and translated several hundred years after that. What was written at that time was for people who had a fraction of 1% of the knowledge about our universe that we have today. The language used to explain spiritual concepts to those people had to be much different than what would be used to explain those concepts to us today. Therefore a literal reading of the Bible would not be appropriate today.
Either A) god exists or B) god does not exist.
If B then one must be mindful that the weight of reason shows the wisdom and necessity to be moral and ethical.
If A then god is either 1) just or 2) unjust.
If 2, then there is no hope anyway, and you might as well not believe in it without direct incontrovertible evidence.
If 1, if god is just, then it doesn't matter what you believe, it matters what you do, especially what you do to other sentient beings.
So whether god exists or not, it doesn't matter, the one true path is to behave ethically and morally.
My point is that nothing CAN shake (change) my Christian beliefs. There could be nothing I could take away from reading such a piece that could benefit me. It comes from the premise that Christianity is flawed. I do not accept that. I'm not afraid of it. I'm also no longer interested in it. I've made my choice for God and very glad I did.
yes.. Transcendent, transcends the reasoning mind. That doesn't mean it cannot be known. The reasoning mind can know - prove using reason - that there exist reality beyond that which reason - and the more limited science - can be used to know.
God can be known through the senses, through science, through reason - each including what is known in the previous sphere and adding something more..
Most theologians would agree that God can be known in many ways with many tools of mind, however never fully or completely.
Dawkin's and other's mistake is go from 'science cannot see it" to "therefore it does not exist." Scientism. Which was debunked shortly after its birth a few centuries ago.
thanks for your reply..
Thanks, Russ, I look forward to reading it..
Excellent description. And, consider, Dawkins holds the Chair in the Public Understanding of Science at the University of Oxford.
I think he embarrasses that institution as well.
Are you certain that your Christian beliefs are totally complete and correct?
A tried and true way of strengthening anything is through exercise and competition. It has been said that competition is one of the best forms of cooperation because it makes you stronger. The competition of ideas is an opportunity to strengthen and expand your Christian beliefs. It is easy to say I am totally right and anyone who disagrees with me is wrong and then run away so to speak. Don't give up and run away from the fight; stay and defend your beliefs in the arena of ideas with research, study, reason and experience. Surely your Christian beliefs have made your life experience better. Proof of a concept is what science is all about.
In my opinion, Xenophanes had the last word on God 2500 years ago. To paraphrase, he said that if horses and oxen were able to conceive of gods, those gods would be in the image of horses or oxen. Personally, I've never believed in supernatural things.
I dont think whether there is a God or not is a scientific question at all. Moreover, I think those of us with a faith shouldnt get into this God vs Science mindset. It should be God AND science.
I like that concept. One theologian presented something similar - that beings can only "see" others on its level or below. E.g., an ant cannot see - know - humans.
As for the supernatural - this can mean, only, something above "nature" and that depends on how we define "nature.' You could define it as all the creative, physical processes. Then that which causes this set of processes vs. another would be 'super" natural.
As far as believing, I only believe - in its limited definition of reality - what experience directly. However our experience goes beyond sensory and reasoning.
Then there's the line from the movie: "Some things exist whether you believe in them or not."
Thanks for your reply...
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