Skip to comments.'Crusader' Takes On eBay Over Sales of Relics
Posted on 11/24/2006 2:49:16 PM PST by rightwingintelligentsia
(Nov. 23) -- Hardly an hour goes by without Thomas Serafin or one of his cyber-sleuths checking what eBay has to offer.
They're not hunting for bargains and never place a bid. Their interest is bone shards, bits of wizened flesh and a contemporary twist on the sacred and the profane: How the ancient trade in the most coveted religious relics has moved into the global flea market of online bidding.
"You can find bone fragments supposedly from St. Augustine being hawked on the Internet along with trinkets and antiques. There is something very wrong here," said Serafin, a professional photographer and Catholic activist based in Los Angeles, who has led an expanding campaign since the late 1990s to block the online sale of objects purported to contain the remains of Christian saints.
Last month, Serafin's group, the International Crusade for Holy Relics, opened a new front that's truly worthy of a David and Goliath metaphor: a call to boycott eBay.
It seeks to pressure the world's largest online auction site to close alleged loopholes used to bypass its ban on allowing bids for human remains.
(Excerpt) Read more at articles.news.aol.com ...
Lol! Chicken bones.
HMMMMM. I wonder what they want for shipping?
Is selling these things on the Internet any worse than using them to stimulate contributions from the "faithful"? This just sounds like a new twist on an old scam, to me.
Make sure I know where you're buried, maybe one of your relatives will buy your bones from me... then again, maybe not... i'm sure you wouldn't care by then. I dare them to litigate too.
I was in contact with this guy at one time. He's very...ummmmm...intense.
Sorry, I plan on being cremated. Maybe you can get my ashes with a Dustbuster, but all my kids will care about is how much money I left them. They sure won't venerate any non-financial remains I leave behind, if any.
Brilliant! Yet very strange.
**Lol! Chicken bones.**
But, but the items are not as advertized? I want my money back!
What is my bid on Origen's private parts that he himself cut off?
The Idea! Holy Relics on ebay! There is a sucker born every minute.
If this groups wants the items so badly, they are welcome to bid and buy them up.
Their website had a message board, which I guess only their group was supposed to be able to see. I didn't hack it, I just clicked on the link to it and it took me right there. (I assume the board was supposed to have some kind of security to limit access but that it wasn't working and they didn't realize it.)
After reading their board for a while, I was horrified when I recognized one of their members who posted on the board as a seller of relics on eBay. I figured Serafin didn't know -- or else this guy wouldn't be allowed to be a member of their group. I emailed Serafin back and forth a few times, giving him all the particulars, and the guy ended up being booted from the group. It was pretty nasty. The guy had supposedly been recommended by a bishop.
Serafin was just barely polite and never really thanked me -- just let me know by cc'ing me on an email to someone else that the guy was no longer a member. He then made sure the board was no longer accessible to the public.
I think he was mad that I'd read the board, but I hadn't done anything wrong since anyone could read it. And if I hadn't, the "bad guy" wouldn't have been caught as soon, or maybe even at all. I thought I was doing him a favor.
Anyway, my impression was that Serafin seemed to think he walks on water. He's doing a good thing, but he seems to have quite an ego about it.
I have an antique Greek cross that is supposedly a reliquary (it's thick and looks as though it could be opened). Have no idea how old it is or which saint it's supposed to be.
Jesus Christ is alive! You can talk to him through prayer anytime also.
Why seek after bones of dead people?
do you know if people are buying them for quasi-religious (or magical) reasons or just to try to turn a profit later on?
1 Timothy 2:5
And your scriptural reference for this is...?
I guess with some people, holy chicken bones are more important than being rational. I wouldn't waste a lot of time with these numbskulls -- they don't want to know the truth.
Your question assumes the truth of 'sola scriptura', which people in the Catholic and Orthodox communions have never held. But even so, here's a scriptural reference for you: 2 Kings 13:21.
But even so, the Scripture referenced tells me only that touching Elisha's bones can bring a dead man back to life, not "The bones (of those whom the Catholic Church call saints.) are holy, sanctified by the righteousness of the saint to whom they belonged."
That's a pretty big leap.
I've heard of businesses being started on a wing and a prayer, but...
Which brings us back to 'sola scriptura'.
They can sell my ashes all they want. It won't be me any longer.
I love tombstones and graveyards. One of my favorite:
"Here lies the body of Solomon Pease.
The Pease aren't here...only the pod.
The Pease shelled out, and went home to God."
God glorifies His holy ones even through their mortal remains: "and as a man was being buried, lo, a maarauding band was seen and the man was cast into the grave of Elisha; and as soon as the moan touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood on his feet." (II Kings 13:21)
Relics aren't just another thing if you believe in the resurrection of the body--they are destined to be revitalized and spend eternity in glory.
Why would anyone believe in the resurrection of the body? The soul is resurrected, not the body.
Ditto that. Praying to bones. yeeuck.
It means that relics are unnecessary.
Cars, clothes, phones etc???? What are you talking about? I mean relics are not necessary to have a relationship with God. Relics are not necessary if you want to pray to Jesus, he will hear you whether you have a relic or not.
If there is anything I am certain about, it is that Jesus Christ is who He said He was. Moreover, I know I am forgiven and I am saved from hell because of Him.
The bible warns against false teaching (i.e. the bones of dead people are "holy"). To point out false teaching is biblical.
Here is what Paul said:
"The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron...If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed" (1 Timothy 4:1-2,6).
Peter warned of false teachings (see 2 Peter 2:1-3).
You tried to admonish me, yet the scripture supports my saying that worshiping bones is not biblical, and we should not be afraid to say it is so.
If you would like further proof that the bible tells us to refute false teachings, here are some other scriptural references:
Matthew 7:15-23; Matthew 24:10; Mark 22:23; Acts 20:25-31; Romans 16:17-18; Galatians 1:6-9; Colossians 2:8,18-19;
2 Thessalonians 2:1-12; 1 Timothy 1:3-7; 1 Timothy 1:18-20; 1 Timothy 4:1-8,16; 1 Timothy 5:3-10;
1 Timothy 6:20-21; 2 Timothy 2:14-18; 2 Timothy 3:1-9; 2 Timothy 4:1-5; Titus 1:9-16;
2 Peter 2:1-22; 2 Peter 3:14-18; 1 John 1:18-27; 1 John 4:1-6; 2 John 7-11; Jude 3-19
Ive got a sixpack of Holy Beer I want to sell
maybe we can get a device from e-bay (or sharper image) that would measure the holiness that is attached to or is inside of various objects.
you could point it at the object, in the way they use geiger counters, and it would give a reading.
the ad on e-bay would list the reading (verified by an independent examiner), so that no one would get ripped off.
i think this would solve the whole problem, and end the debate.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.