Posted on 01/27/2007 2:26:06 PM PST by narses
Rudolph W. Giuliani, who developed a national reputation for decisive and reassuring leadership after 9/11, now faces the odd challenge of having to reassure some supporters that he can be decisive about a very different issue: running for president. Even as his fellow Republican John McCain and fellow New Yorker Hillary Rodham Clinton have all but formally declared their candidacies, Mr. Giuliani has proceeded more cautiously.
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
Agreed. Abortion is settled law, it is here to stay. Even if Rowe v. Wade were overturned tomorrow, which will never happen, it would go to the states to decide and virtually all of them would allow it. Anti-gay marriage, again, the voters have spoken and the courts have where the voters haven't. It will be a state law matter just like abortion so forget about it. Hate it, despise it but realize no politician has any effect upon it.
Look at competence and leadership and nothing more. G is honest and may be the world's worst husband but too bad.
Abortion is here to stay so get over it and move on to important issues like the survival of western civilization.
Check out this stuff.
>>>>>With Rudy you are not getting a liberal, you are getting a man who is conservative on most issues ...
~ Rudy supports big government Republicanism.
* Conservatives support limited government.
~ Rudy has supported gun control and an assault weapons ban.
* Conservatives oppose gun control and an assault weapons ban.
~ Rudy has supported abortion on demand and a ban on partial birth abortion.
* Conservatives oppose abortion on demand and support a ban on partial birth abortion.
~ Rudy has supported and even promoted special rights for homos.
* Conservatives oppose special rights for anyone.
~ Rudy supports liberal immigration reform, amnesty and a path to citizenship for illegals.
* Conservatives are opposed to liberal immigration reform, amnesty and a path to citizenship for illegals.
There is nothing conservative about Rudy Giuliani. Rudy`s major accomplishment upon leaving office as Mayor of NYCity was to reduce crime. The current liberal mayor of NYCity Mike Bloomberg has also reduced crime. Doesn't mean conservatives will vote for either Giuliani or Bloomberg to be POTUS. Only a moderate, centrist or liberal Republican could vote for Rudy. Unless you pull a "Vito Fossella", and sell out your conservative principles for the liberal bandwagon of Rudy Giuliani. Rudy`s given a lifetime of support to liberal policies and liberal causes, and that should be a turnoff to anyone who calls themselves a conservative.
http://www.kennedyvmachine.com/?p=2796
The man described here doesn't sound like a liberal too me and completely refutes you argument on Rudy about immigration and being a big government Republican. As far as abortion goes, like I said in Post 16 we can't stop it. As far a gay rights go, Rudy is against gay marriage. All other gay issues, who cares. Gays don't affect your life or mine. Lets worry about things that affect our life, like the WOT, taxes, ect.
You're dead on. Another pragmatic conservative that understands reality.
Well said. I agree with you completely.
Well said!
Broad as the Republican party platform may be, Giuliani fell off the left side of it long ago.
I don't care what he calls himself, he's a Democrat. He talks like one, governs like one---and if elected President, he would talk like a Dem and govern like one.
Yep.
There's been a lot of material posted recently exposing Giuliani for the liberal he is and demonstrating how his views and record as mayor conflict with the Republican Party Platform. Compile some of that and use it. He can be stopped in his tracks if enough grassroots Republicans stand in opposition to him.
Thanks!
My post was on the mark. Read it. Rudy has a lifelong record in politics and that record is clearly one of a liberal, not a conservative. Rudy employs rhetorical obfuscation to give the impression he is more of a moderate or even a centrist. As Rush says, the words moderate and centrist are just two other ways to say, liberal.
Pres Reagan and the current Pres Bush were/are both strong pro-lifers who employed Executive Orders and Presidencial edicts to stop abortions within their power as the POTUS. Rudy`s remarks through out his life have supported abortion on demand. No doubt about it.
“I am pro-choice. I’m pro-gay rights,” Giuliani said in 1999, when he was contemplating a Senate campaign. When a reporter asked if he at least favored a ban on partial-birth abortion, Giuliani said, “No, I have not supported that, and I don’t see my position on that changing.”
Here's what Terry Jeffrey, the editor of Human Events wrote about Rudy`s position on gay relationships:
"Giuliani’s pro-gay rights position is so extreme, he advocated stripping away the special legal status of traditional marriage. In 1998, he pushed a municipal ordinance that wiped out all distinctions between married and unmarried couples in New York City law, regardless of their gender. The late Cardinal John O’Connor gave a sermon from the pulpit of Saint Patrick Cathedral condemning Giuliani’s proposal. “It is imperative, in my judgment,” said the Cardinal, “that no law be passed contrary to natural moral law and Western tradition by virtually legislating that marriage does not matter.”
>>>>>Lets worry about things that affect our life, like the WOT, taxes, ect.
There is no evidence that Rudy has some special talent or skills for national defense or homeland security issues that would place him above most of the other GOP candidates.
Btw, when Rudy left office as Mayor of NYCity, he left behind a projected pre-9/11 deficit of $2.0 billion and a $42 billion debt, second largest only to the federal governments. In addition, Rudy added 15,000 teachers to the city`s employment rolls. That increased the membership of two of the largest liberal organizations in America today. The National Education Association and the American Federation of Teachers.
I'm telling you, Rudy ain't no conservative!
"My post was on the mark. Read it."
Actually, my post is the one that's on mark. We'll just have to agree to disagree because we aren't going to change each other's minds.
How many damn times are you going to post that same crap today?
~ Rudy supports big government Republicanism.
* Conservatives support limited government.
~ Rudy has supported gun control and an assault weapons ban.
* Conservatives oppose gun control and an assault weapons ban.
~ Rudy has supported abortion on demand and a ban on partial birth abortion.
* Conservatives oppose abortion on demand and support a ban on partial birth abortion.
~ Rudy has supported and even promoted special rights for homos.
* Conservatives oppose special rights for anyone.
~ Rudy supports liberal immigration reform, amnesty and a path to citizenship for illegals.
* Conservatives are opposed to liberal immigration reform, amnesty and a path to citizenship for illegals.
There is nothing conservative about Rudy Giuliani. Rudy`s major accomplishment upon leaving office as Mayor of NYCity was to reduce crime. The current liberal mayor of NYCity Mike Bloomberg has also reduced crime. Doesn't mean conservatives will vote for either Giuliani or Bloomberg to be POTUS. Only a moderate, centrist or liberal Republican could vote for Rudy. Unless you pull a "Vito Fossella", and sell out your conservative principles for the liberal bandwagon of Rudy Giuliani. Rudy`s given a lifetime of support to liberal policies and liberal causes, and that should be a turnoff to anyone who calls themselves a conservative.
My posts are based on facts. Yours are based on fallacies. Big difference.
Wise words there; and yet here we have a whole group of people on this web site with one agenda -- stopping abortion -- and their answer is to turn power over to the very people who will GUARANTEE that there is abortion on demand for the foreseeable future.
I just don't get it.
You'll have to pardon me if I don't take your word for anything.
You seem to have an agenda here.
Giuliani should be proud to have a supporter like you! :)
I just don't buy the argument sorry. IF WE DID NOT HAVE ANY OTHER CANDIDATES (if that was possible), I could see us social conservatives considering Giuliani or Romney (not McCain! :), but WE HAVE CHOICES... GOOD CHOICES I might add... Do you know what I mean?...
Now, I think everybody should be able to make arguments for our favorites, just like you and I do, and let people decide. We forget we are still TWO YEARS AWAY from the election... well, at least one year anyway... So we have plenty of time to discern and examine each candidate's record to death. That does not mean that if we see that your side is sugar coating over issues (Pro abortion, pro homosexuals... and God know what would happen with the homos in the Military with this guy (a chance we can NOT take), anti-gun, etc, etc, etc.)... we are going just to let it go.. No! We should be as nice as possible, but we must bring those issues into the open... Because what we say here - as you know you know - goes far beyond FR...Which by the way, it is my main objective.
Also, we should remember we are on the same team... Or not?... MY tag has never changed... and it will remain the same for as long as I participate on FR. Because if we can not talk among ourselves in a 'conservative' forum... If we can not give each other a little bit of leeway... Where can we go then?
You know, in all honesty, I am just wondering, if you can find so many good things about Giuliani and somehow minimize the bad ones, how come you are no crazy about Duncan? Oh... That is not well known enough? What kind of a silly argument is that?..:) Rember Carter? Slick? and with today's communications, Duncan WILL BE KNOWN TO EVERYONE soon enough, you'll see.
Sorry to be so long... That is the punishment to those of us who do not master the English Language... Too late for me :)
I do. Life. The Constitution. Little stuff.
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