Should students be allowed to carry concealed weapons?

Christian Science Monitor ^ | April 18, 2007 | Jared Flesher and Alexandra Marks |

[Cincinatus' Wife]

The deadly shooting rampage at Virginia Tech on Monday has reignited an emotional debate about whether students should be allowed to carry concealed weapons on campus.

Virginia Tech, like most universities around the country, forbids students from having guns on campus. But as an increasing number of states have passed laws that allow people to carry concealed weapons, gun advocates from Virginia to Utah have also challenged the academic policies that prohibit weapons at colleges and universities.

[Big Snip]

"Almost every college that has looked at this issue feels they can do a better job of protecting their students by banning guns on campus and taking responsibility to provide good security," says Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence in Washington. "I'm not sure any campus would like to advertise, 'Come to our campus. We have more guns per capita than any other campus.' "

When the issue is debated again as expected this year in Virginia, gun-control advocates will be lining up with members of the academic community in opposing an expanded presence of guns on campus. They believe the problem is that the country already has too many guns.

"We have access to these weapons, and there are people who get angry, and with that access they will use them," says Jim Sollo, vice president of Virginians Against Handgun Violence, a group with 800 members that advocates gun-control measures. "I fear that we will continue to have mass shootings here in the United States."

But gun advocate Mr. Van Cleave contends that control is not the solution. "Gun control only works with the good guys," he says. "Good people obey the laws. The people you're worried about don't. I don't think [the campus shooting] is going to bode well for gun control."

[camle]

should STUDENTS be allowed concealed carry????
what about FACULTY/STAFF????

[Hatband]

Just about all students carry a back pack or book bag. Those with a concealed carry license should just buy a suitable pack, carry their weapon and shut up about it. Nobody will know about it unless using it becomes necessary.

[Sarajevo]

I do not see this as a gun control debate, but more of a debate on how to ensure the public safety without infringing on personal rights. It is a complicated issue.

Should guns be carried in schools? No. A school should be a place of higher education. As we have seen by recent tragedies, schools can and are also turned into scenes of carnage by those who are not responsible enough to have a gun. Also, what does the property owner think of guns on his/her property? I support the 2nd, but I refuse to have a stranger on my property with a weapon.

What to do? If metal detectors are installed in the entrance to every public venue, then we may violate the right to unreasonable search and seizure. "New" gun control laws have proven ineffective time and time again. Security inspections and guards are also lax (think TSA) or they can be overly restrictive.

Gun classes and registrations/certifications seem to have turned into another revenue enhancer for state governments. I ask myself, "After 20+ years of carrying a weapon in the military, why would I want to pay somebody to teach me how to handle a weapon again? (I imagine many LEO's/gun collectors/shooting enthusiasts would feel the same way.) Drivers are licensed regularly, yet every year, many die in automobile accidents.

Perhaps gun safety should be a required part of the cirriculum of our schools. When I was in junior high, we had a very popular class which taught gun safety and boating safety. The teacher was also our local Boy Scout Troop leader. It seemed to be effective, but things are different in Small Town USA, and we can't go back to the "good old days".

This is one of those issues that will defy correction. It's the proverbial double-edged sword, where any course of action will violate the rights of others. Limits have already been set, yet there is always a portion of society that will ignore those limits.

/useless reflective thoughts

My condolences go to those who have lost loved ones.

[durasell]

So, there’s a shooting on campus and the kids start pulling out their guns. Well, this might confuse and/or delay the police who have to check everyone with a weapon. Then, you have kids — already panicked — looking for a shooter...

[Mad Dawg]

I'm not challenging your opinion (yet -- though I may never challenge it.) What we know is that having unarmed students means that only the bad guys carry on campus. What I take you to be suggesting is that if students were allowed to carry, where otherwise permitted and all that, it would be worse -- that is more students would be wounded or killed.

The 'droidhead, though, was illegal twice: he was carrying on a campus in Jersey. So I still have to wonder if he would have been as big a jerk if he knew that others were armed as well, that folks could be armed without risking arrest or suspension.

And I don't understand the last comment. Why would the illicit gun trade grow if there was a licit trade?

[Sarajevo]

Oboy-after reading some of the posts above, I think I’ll slink away and find a pair of fire-proof trousers....

[Hatband]

The only students/faculty with firearms will have a concealed carry permit. They have to be 21 years old. At VT as at Columbine, the police don’t do anything until after the shooting is over so what difference if they have to check on armed students/faculty?

[tcostell]

That's exactly the kind of mentality that liberals take on this issue... that common people are too stupid or irresponsible to take care of themselves.

It's not effective to limit the rights of the law abiding to prevent a few people from doing illegal things. If there is a drug war, then do something about it without preventing law abiding people from protecting themselves.

I'm not calling you names here, I suspect you just haven't thought it through carefully, but your position on gun control is the Mike Bloomberg/Barbara Boxer position exactly. And naturally, I think it's a mistake.

[Mad Dawg]

Then, you have kids — already panicked — looking for a shooter...

As opposed to kids -- already panicked -- being lined up and shot "execution-style" as they say.

It's a "compared to what" problem: Allowing students to exercise their rights is not a perfect solution. The question is would it be a better solution than the current imposition of defenselessness.

While I'm beginning to distrust the judgment of anybody under 45, these alleged "kids" are old enough to vote and to serve in the military.

While I am no proponent of rushing kids into adulthood, it is also true that we are enabling a whole bunch of kids to grow up with a sense that somebody else will take care of all the messy stuff. I was struck with the radio sound bites of students saying things like, "We never though this could happen here ..." I was screaming at the radio: It's six years after the 9-11; somebody shot up a mall in Utah a few weeks ago; HOW could you think that you were immune? Denial is not just a river ......

"Let's hope it doesn't happen here" is not a strategy.

---

[Eclectica]

Just about all students carry a back pack or book bag. Those with a concealed carry license should just buy a suitable pack, carry their weapon and shut up about it. Nobody will know about it unless using it becomes necessary

'Just saved me a bit of writing.

Though I would have added, "...just tell the judge that you voted for Al Gore so you get off light with a 'first offense'".

:^)

[shekkian]

That would just be politically incorrect.

[Hatband]

But Mad Dawg, people who refuse to defend themselve and allow themselves to be executed by a maniac are morally superior to someone who uses an eeeevil gun to shoot the maniac.

[ExSoldier]

My ONLY hesitation in wholeheartedly agreeing with you comes from the fact that I teach seniors in high school. None of them are near enough mature for me to even give them firearms training, let alone touch a real weapon.

OTOH, I myself had a CCW permit at U of Alabama in the 1970s. We weren't very serious either during those times, except when we contemplated our imminent military commissions and when we were armed. Then it was 100% business.

A nice compromise would be to allow returning combat veterans who are attending school to go armed, perhaps even offer tuition breaks for doing so.

Secondarily, I'd offer firearms classes as a semester or summer course to prep the rest of campus. Contract with local NRA Instructors (like me) to teach and find a local range/gunshop to work with for live fires and perhaps rentals of weapons. Good advertising and a huge potential source of eventual revenue. That should also go a long way to relieving concern of other students, faculty and administration. Of course it will only cause the media to really rip their hair out and drive the anti-groups nutz as well.

[durasell]

I’m not up on the law — so, what charge is brought against a student who mistakenly shoots an innocent student? How about the cop who accidentally shoots an innocent student?

[theBuckwheat]

This all hinges on the meaning of “student”. First consider the conditions that must be met to have a CCW. So, not every person who is enrolled as a student is even in the group of adult, qualified, licensed, CCW holders. But secondly and just as importantly, “students” also includes people who have just gotten out of serving in the military. One of my classmates was in the Army Special Forces. Another was on a SR71 groundcrew.

But we shouldn’t even be getting this far, because when we have to defend a right in this manner, we have already allowed the person attempting to do away with it to define the terms. He who defines the terms controls the discussion.

We don’t defend the free speech component of the First Amendment on campus by saying that some people who used to be newspaper reporters, commentators or activists may need to exercise that right. And we shouldn’t have to defend the Second Amendment like this either.

We allow universities to regulate speech, which most frequently means they allow all manner of leftist rantings including public sexual festivals, while doing what they can to suppress speech from conservatives. But we cannot allow universities to regulate free speech in a manner that forbids it. We have allowed the RKBA to be regulated away. And that is wrong.

[Hatband]

What charges do you bring against a suicided maniac who has just murdered 32 people?

[theBuckwheat]

>>
Just about all students carry a back pack or book bag. Those with a concealed carry license should just buy a suitable pack, carry their weapon and shut up about it. Nobody will know about it unless using it becomes necessary
<<

How many on this thread have CCW, and regularly carry, and have never been discovered?

[durasell]

He’s dead. You can’t bring charges.

[Cindy]

You have some good ideas ExSoldier.

[MrBambaLaMamba]

Should students be allowed to carry concealed weapons? Yes!