Posted on 05/16/2007 1:25:01 PM PDT by dcwusmc
This is a question which requires a lot of thought and introspection. I realize and understand that many of you are pure knee-jerk, but try. Did the United States and the Federal Government in ANY way contribute to 9/11? Were our policies in the mid-east in any possible way factors which allowed a nutjob like Osama Bin Awful to recruit moonbats who were and are willing to die to kill "infidels," whether in the U.S. or overseas? If you say "no,' I ask for clear evidence to back you up. If you say "yes," then to what DEGREE did our policies contribute to 9/11 and subsequent attacks and attempted attacks? Which policies and why?
This is in no way to excuse what happened, of course. But to many of you here, it seems we were pure as the driven snow and 9/11 happened out of thin air and is totally inexplicable in terms of our own government's past actions and policies. Since the roots of it go back to Clinton and beyond (I would say at least to Jimmy the Peanut, myself, perhaps sooner), this does NOT constitute Bush-bashing, as some others are wont to claim (again, a kneejerk reaction).
It is my considered opinion that MANY of our presidents have thought so highly of themselves that they could consider that THEY, alone, held all the answers to all the factionalism and all the troubles in the Middle East. That they could, by virtue of their own personalities and whatever, overcome CENTURIES of fighting, infighting, atrocities and counter-atrocities by all these Arabs and Persians and even the Jews. (It seems that throughout history, MOST societies have scapegoated the Jews for all their ills.) Add the witches' brew of Mohammedanism to an already-backwards culture and we have semi-literate people with hair-triggers who WANT to believe the worst about outsiders, Jew OR Gentile. Then give them even the least bit of fact to bite on and a nutcase like Osama can wind up with scores of thousands of wanna-bee martyrs. And WE fell into that trap. When we took sides in their fratricidal civil wars. Even when we abandoned an "ally" and then allowed him into our country for medical treatment... one group took things one way, another took things THEIR way and now it seems we have the three main sects of that false religion after us.
Let me clarify now that I am a fervent supporter of Israel and the Jewish People, God's Chosen. However, I am NOT a supporter of GOVERNMENT AID to Israel. Besides the very questionable constitutionality of it, the aid comes with, in my opinion, way too many strings which inhibit Israel from mounting a proper defense of herself when needed. Also it gives American presidents, who are already too full of themselves, an arrogance that THEY ALONE can surmount the hatreds and ill wills that drive the Muslim countries to want to see Israel eradicated and all the Jews of the world exterminated.
The main problem as I see it is that if we refuse to look beyond our own prejudices and biases to the FACTS, we will LOSE our country and our culture. If we choose to blindly follow dangerous or misguided or even evil policies and policy makers, we will wind up with NOTHING of the once-free nation handed off to us by the Founders. I even sometimes do it, then I have to actually THINK for myself. Mostly I come down on the side that says that the people who attacked us and who continue to act like a plague upon the land should be wiped slick from the earth. However, I often strongly question the MEANS for doing that... and I question the WILL of the Bushites to WIN the war on terrorists and their sponsoring countries. I also have trouble with the name of this: The Global War on Terror. Terrorism is a TACTIC used by those who are too cowardly to come up against an opposing force on an even footing. It is also SPONSORED by certain nations who would see us done ill, but who want to keep their own hands "clean." Thus, there can be NO "war on terror," and it is the semantics which get in the way of WINNING, because there is no way to determine when or if you HAVE won. This is why I, along with others (including a presidential candidate who shall remain nameless), am convinced that we should have had a declaration by the Congress that specifically stated that a state of war exists between the United States and al-Qaeda, the Taliban and any nation which supports or harbors them. That way we would have mobilized our national resources, went on an actual WAR-footing and committed our country and our people and our resources to WINNING this thing instead of having it now to be used as a political football by the Left and the chickenhawks on the right.
So, in hindsight, COULD we have taken a different path years back that would NOT NECESSARILY have led to 9/11? Or are we as pure as the driven snow and those nutballs just up and decided to attack us because they could get away with it?
Typing too fast... I meant American policy makers...
We didn’t “ask for it”, but I also don’t think that they attack us just because we are for freedom. Of course radical Islam wants to take over the world, but over the last century they have had more immediate problems at home. It seems that they do have a grand unified plan, which is, in order:
1. Restore Islamic rule to Muslim countries;
2. Gain back the ground once held by Islam, but now lost;
3. Convert the rest of the world to Islam.
Lately they have been having a lot of trouble even with #1, which is where al Qaeda had been spending most of its resources. Iran has been the Islamists only real victory in decades. They perceive that the US military stands in the way of these goals (which they do). However, I don’t think that our military needs to, or can, fight this fight. The spread of Western culture and economics has been slowly but successfully destroying Islamic rule for decades - examples include Turkey, Morocco, Pakistan, Malaysia, the Gulf States, and others. It is a force that they cannot fight successfully.
So true.
Simple! We wont convert, we wont implement Sharia Law,so they must kill us, each and every one.QED
I hope we win the next Crusade, although Zionists didn’t fare too well in the last one.
barbra ann
Ding Ding Ding - we have a winner.
“The Caliphate and Jihadist Philospohy was founded approximately ONE THOUSAND YEARS!”
I was waiting for the C-word (Caliphate) to show up in this thread.
I agree! Al Quida has not only targeted the US, but many other countries as well.
Well, we could have decided not to be a great power, or the leader of the West.
The roots of this go back to centuries of Muslim decline vis a vis the West. To make matters worse, the Arabs lived under Turkish rule for four centuries and had the title Caliph appropriated by the Turkish emperor, their holy places occupied by the Turks.
Then came the fall of the Turkish Empire after WWI, creating a power vacuum in the Middle East. The Arabs thought they had been promised a state with Damascus as the capital (very significant, the capital of the Arab empire at its greatest extent). But, they were double-crossed by the British and French who carved most of the region into colonies.
The Arabs gave up on their traditional leaders and turned to fascism to resist the Western powers, with Nazism as a useful model. In addition, they turned to fascism's favorite tactic, terror. Gradually, most of the colonial and pro-Western regimes fell to fascist parties or movements.
At the beginning of WWII, pro-Nazi regimes had to be toppled in Syria, Iraq and Iran. Sound familiar?
After the war, they reasserted themselves, but as leadership of the West transitioned from Britain and France to the U.S., guess who became their number one target?
Could we get out of the cross-hairs? Maybe. Give up on the West and start a Fortress America. Abandon Israel to a second Holocaust (although they might not go as easily as you think). Let Iran have the bomb. Allow the Taleban and AQ back into Afghanistan. Let Las Vegas post odds on whether AQ or Iran will emerge dominant in Iraq and Saudi Arabia.
Then pray that once primacy in the region is sorted out among probably several nuclear powers, that they have no interest in reclaiming former Muslim lands in the Balkans and Iberian peninsula and will not interfere in the world economy or flow of oil to enhance their power further. I.E., pray that they will be the first new power in history to be content with their initial gains.
Since you are a Ron Paul supporter, part of the Constitutional Party / Libertarian / anti war bunch,
This post proves what narrow thinking and lack of history
will take you.
You take an argument to the lunatic fringe.
What you are saying, if someone breaks into your car and cuts their hand on the glass window, it is your fault because you didn’t have the window down to make it easy for them to rip off your car.
What do you say about the Jews rounded up and killed by the Nazies. If they wern’t in Europe it wouldn’t have happened. This is how you reason.
You are in group think and need to back out of what you are in.
You probably thought that your statement was witty - but not every academic can be pigeonholed into your framework, so it only shows your ignorance and prejudice.
1) Even if Israel did not exist these folks would try to kill us (the 'West'). Their 'good book' demands it. Convert, die, or be enslaved.
2) The events that caused 9-11 occurred because we breathe air.
3) From a purely political/survival of the West standpoint, we need to support Israel (they are in the frontlines of this war).
There will be no change until:
A) The islamic world realizes that following the 'jot and tittle' of their book is not worth the blow-back, or
B) The islamic world realizes their book is a piece of satanic fiction, and they convert to Christianity.
“What did India do to earn their islamderthal attacks? How about Bangladesh or Nepal. Did Indonesia or the Philippines occupy muslim lands? Several hundred years ago, did north Africa and southern Europe occupy muslim lands?”
They are murdering unarmed farm workers in Thailand this week. ROPMA
“IMO, this thread ranks up there with what upset Charles Manson and why did he want to murder Sharon Tate. Or, who upset Adolf Hitler and why did he murder 6 million Jews. The Jews must have asked for it, right? Anyone consider Islamic fanatics to be cold blooded murderers who need NO valid reason to hate you other than they want you dead.”
IMO this thread and its “question” belongs at DU. Or KOS.
You didn’t answer the question.
saying that the US has fault for 9/11 is like saying that a woman with a short skirt is at fault if she is raped.
Gee... do you think that's why last week the Navy fires commander of USS Constitution? More Muslim capitulation? ;-)
-PJ
It was a stupid question that deserved no answer. Ward Churchill wouldn’t teach at a law school.
Classical historical fallacy.
Actually, that's a pretty good analogy. Nothing justifies rape, even if the girl is wearing a miniskirt and is in your hotel room. But it would be STUPID for a girl to go into a guy's hotel room alone, especially wearing sexy clothes. That's asking for trouble.
So the question is whether anything the US did contributed to the anger in the Muslim world. Nothing justifies taking 2 civilian airliners and crashing them into civilian skyscrapers, but our foreign policies may well have set us up for it.
Bill Clinton did.
So did Anita Hill.
Your point?
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