Posted on 07/27/2007 12:31:46 PM PDT by Michael2001
RICHMOND, Va. – The crowded, chaotic sidewalk on Main Street, across from the federal courthouse, was an unlikely location for a lesson on the virtues of the fifth amendment.
But standing behind a throng that wanted a pound of Michael Vick's flesh – people that had just screamed for the Atlanta Falcons quarterback to "burn in hell" and held signs advocating his murder, torture and neutering – was Thomas Smith in work boots and a white t-shirt.
High above his head he held a simple sign with just a single word: "Constitution."
"These folks have convicted a man who hasn't even had a chance to defend himself," said Smith. "They just forget everything about America."
But here was America in full force, full vision, mixing it up while Vick pled not guilty to federal charges pertaining to an alleged dog-fighting ring on property he owned in rural Surry County. And front and center, impossible to ignore, was race.
Like Smith, almost all of the people supporting Vick or holding signs pleading for "due process" and "innocence until proven guilty" were African American.
On the other side was an emotional, angry, passionate anti-Vick group that was overwhelmingly white.
Certainly not every animal rights supporter was screaming for Vick to die. Many were just there to support the cause of caring for animals, ending the barbaric practice of dog fighting and using the massive media presence to benefit good.
But a significant number were focused on Vick. When he emerged from a black SUV and made a slow walk up a ramp and into the courthouse, they pushed toward police barriers and let loose.
"Burn in hell you (expletive) (expletive)," repeatedly screamed one woman.
"Die like those dogs," shouted another.
Not long after Vick got inside the courthouse – and in a scene that was repeated when he left less than two hours later – the two sides clashed in shouted voices and dueling signs.
White people screaming for justice; black people asking if they still remember everything justice entails.
That a case involving dog fighting can break so quickly along racial lines is a testament to how it bubbles below just about everything in this country. We all wish it wasn't so, including both sides here. No one wanted this. Almost no one even wanted to acknowledge it. But it was there, plain as day in black and white.
"I wouldn't say it's a racial thing," said David Williams, an African American, in a hopeful tone. "It's not racial. But for these animal rights people to take one person and crucify him isn't fair."
The thing is, the "animal rights people" here were an estimated 90 percent white. The pro-Vick/due process crowd was probably 95 percent black.
Obviously, both animal rights advocates and due process proponents come in all colors. And certainly a circus show like this, revved up by a massive media presence, isn't representative of America.
But, then again, I also know what I saw and what I heard.
"They are not going to give the man a chance?" Williams said. "You're innocent until proven guilty. He hasn't even had a trial yet."
There should be two undeniable, 100 percent agreed upon truths concerning this case: First, dog fighting is a barbaric felony and whoever participated in it on Vick's property should get hammered by the justice system.
Second, Vick deserves the right to defend against the charges. The indictment cites four "cooperating witnesses," but presuming each is a dog fighter himself, potentially facing prosecution unless they rolled on Vick, who and how reliable are they?
That said, the U.S. Attorney's office is known for its detail and diligence – this isn't some hack county prosecutor like the Duke lacrosse case. They rarely lose, so the challenge for Vick is serious and significant. But he has the right to fight.
"This is going to be a hard-fought trial," agreed Billy Martin, Vick's attorney.
It may not be any less intense than the scene out on Main Street, where two sides, clearly divided and easily identifiable, both anchored in righteous beliefs and moral causes went at it.
Two black women held a sign declaring: "I support Mike Vick due process." That caused vocal jeering from the protesters, which in turn caused the women to taunt them back by waving the sign at them. Later two men had to be separated by security as their debate descended toward physical confrontation, all as a crowd surrounded shouting in all directions.
And on and on it went on this hot Southern sidewalk.
So what’s the media’s position?
Is the media insinuating their friends on the left in the animal rights groups who are protesting are bigots?
I mean WHY is this a race issue!
Is it because of the mostly white people protesting him, or is it because of the blacks supporting him.
Which group is the one making it about race.
Well...we all know which group.
wow..the best and most articulate post on this issue I have read!!!!
This has nothing to do with race. It's because sillassed white folks worship animals more than people.
No self respecting black this side of the Congo would fall for that bullshite.
Some fool sportscaster down there alluded that what Vick did was worse than Ray Lewis or that Wrestler ...in other words, it's worse to kill dogs than men women and children. This obsession with nature and animals is bizarre. He broke the law. Prosecute him. Calls for his death or torture are absurd and a pitiful reflection of screwed up priorites.
That is wholly untrue...completely unequivocally untrue. Where did you get that from?
I'm in Nashville and come from a 200 year old line of white Southerners in Mississippi who have been here since the First Families of Virginia and Pocahontas and Rolfe.
Rich aristocratic Southerners race horses, own Tennessee walkers and maybe used to cockfight. Nowadays they duck hunt and still raise all manner of horse. Dog fighting and bull baiting were always the province of the yeoman class.
Today here in Tennessee it is the domain of urban black dope dealers and white country boy pot growers and meth cooks. Society's lower levels...hardly the gentry.
Bingo Mrs Z......our culture including some here would hang a man over killing dogs but either endorse, accept or just mutter about murdering babies as birth control
“I think it is as simple as that. As long as all sides are working with the same rules, “the constitution” the results and behavior are fair.”
The results and the behavior certainly are not fair if someone is affected economically, socially or professionally on an assumption of guilt.
“You seem to be trying to impose concerns that I’m sure many couldn’t care less about.”
Well, I would certainly be concerned if some horrendous liberal harpy yelled obscenities into my face. I think most people would be, especially if they were innocent.
“As well they should. If he is even remotely connected to this, and a sane person couldn’t deny it at this point, he should pay the just price.”
But this is my point. Certainly he SHOULD pay, and pay heavily, but only IF he is guilty. I don’t know if he did this awful thing or not. He may very well be guilty. But I do know that that is something that should be determined by a court, a judge and a jury of his peers, not the media, lobby groups, or even public opinion.
“That’s a great idea. Let’s just amend the constitution to satisfy your concerns. When can I get mine in there? Can I be the next amender?”
There’s no need to sneer. I have a perfect right (and in fact, in a free society, a positive duty) to put forward my concerns and thoughts. I’m not ramming them down anyone’s throat, you don’t have to agree. And in the same way, if you think something is wrong and should be amended, by all means present it before the bar of opinion of this board. If the rules (aka the constitution) are any good at all I’m sure they can take and stand up to constructive criticism.
Whose books are you reading, surely you haven’t been around here that long.
You’re not making sense OP. I’m 50 and my family has been in the South since they were Huguenots or third sons 400 years ago this year on a tiny estuary on the Virginia coast..
and there is darn sure no dog fighting today with rich white folks.
your previous post of Vick did wrong by acting white was patently absurd and constructed for your usual agenda
very odd OP
Okay, so your family never had fighting dogs, they just went around making horses run themselves to death for your entertainment, then, right?
Vick’s visibilty makes him very high-profile - as an example, who else is being charged with him?
OK, how about if I cop to the fact that my post was an unidentified parody and I then sat back to await the outrage, don’t you think that the core complaint of punishment without conviction is still a valid principle?
Great post. I thought the comparison between this guy Vick and the Duke Lacrosse players would come up alot sooner. I didn’t notice alot of blacks rushing to the aid of the Duke Lacrosse players. I do believe that had it not been for the internet and a few in the media those white college students would have been sacrificed at the alter of political correctness. To this day the black stripper has gotten no payback.
On the other side was an emotional, angry, passionate anti-Vick group that was overwhelmingly white.
Does anyone recall a similar reaction involving three young men from Duke University? Did these hyphenated-Americans believe them to be innocent until proven guilty? Where was “due process” for them?
It’s been my experience — and I will probably get flamed for saying it — that for a lot of people, it doesn’t matter if a black criminal is caught red-handed. Anything he or she does is excusable, because it’s “The Man” persecuting and keeping him/her down. Or, “they wouldn’t have to commit the crime if they weren’t black!”
Amen! Matter of fact someone on the news said if it had been a child killed there would not have been such an outcry as with an animal.
The classic cry "innocent till proven guilty" will turn to "no justice, no peace!" if he's found guilty.........
Wonder if the writer of the article will cover that.......
to be honest....I have been more interested in all the outrage over animal cruelty which like most folks I find lamentable but hardly a capital crime
a misdemeanor to me
or maybe a class G Felony is repeated or involving other crimes
for some, dog fighting ranks with child rape...which in my opinion is absurd
absolutely and many here go beyond just thinking he is guilty and are already calling for rope or even torture...a lot of punitive hyperbole
this fascination with nature and animal "crime" really vexes me
it's so selective....we are cruel to and kill animals by the millions daily as a resource....course not dogs...at least not here on any scale
we do kill them in large amounts for population control....and it;s pretty brutal
It's pathetic that so many people feel that we can't convict a black man of a heinous crime unless we find a white counterpart to convict as well. American political correctness gets more embarrassing every year.
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