Posted on 10/04/2007 5:25:13 AM PDT by Neville72
You could have phrased that thus: Some people learned nothing from the George W Bush debacle......Nominating someone because he’s “electable” isn’t the answer.
“No, what’s hurting the party is the ignoring of all other things conservative and ONLY focusing on social issues.”
What’s killed the party is people separating “social issues” from everything else. They’re all related. We can’t govern without moral authority, that comes from God, not the constitution, not secular education, not enlightenment. We can’t justly close our borders unless we have the moral high ground, we can’t justly invade terrorist sponsoring countries unless we’re morally obligated.
Born agains are people that were basically the least desirable of us for the first half of their life, then suddenly turned 180 degrees and went the opposite extreme. They then become hyper critical of us that never were the horrible people they once were and never became the religious extreme that they are now. I am not impressed with born agains. I am not impressed with alcoholics that join AA. I consider them 2 peas in a pod. I’m glad they finally found some sanity in their lives, but if they think they are better than me, they better think again.
But I gotta add the disclaimer at the end, naturally. There are plenty of life long church goers that are just as snobbish about religion. There are also lots of born agains that are not snobbish about religion. Many of them do find an "even keel" after awhile and then get off their soap box.
yes, I meant that I don’t know anyone who followed Falwell prior to his death...but I didn’t think I needed to clarify that.
However, for a man of his age, with his southern background, I was rather shocked at his rather flippant - kiss off approach to an elder statesman who has done far, far more with his life than any of the candidates for Prez not the least of which is Sen. Thompson.
I fear he has spent far too much time around actors to think that "attitude" without substance is impressive.
In actuality, Thompson was rather disappointing as a Senator and his track record was far to left of center for my tastes.
Apples and oranges. The question you should be asking is this:
Should we have voted for a third party candidate instead of GW Bush because he wasn’t exactly what we wanted? Would Al Gore or John F. Kerry have been better?
Answer: Lord no! GWB is infinitely better than either Gore or Kerry.
We have primaries for a reason. If we can’t get our favorite nominated, we’ll have to be more effective in the next primary (in four years).
No. But I am saying that if you don't love what Christ loves, something is wrong with you. If you "follow the teachings of Christ," you'd not forsake the gathering together of the saints, e.g., church.
You're free to disregard the Bride of Christ, of course. That's between you and God.
Of course not. We are saved by faith in Christ alone.
All I'm saying is that if you love what Christ loves -- the Church as manifest through the local church -- then your heart is in the wrong place.
Do you think Christ is passionate about His Bride? Why then are you not?
Are you saying that the church is full of sinners? Guess what -- you're right.
Jesus used that term. When I use it, I’m referring to Jesus’ use of it.
Not sure why anyone would be ashamed of Christ’s words.
Dobson goes out of his way to insult Fred, and ONLY Fred, twice, and you think that FRED is the rude person?
From what Dobson has said, I think this is essentially correct. I don't want a president who "talks openly about his faith". Words are cheap, I want a president who lives his faith.
The last two Democrat presidents have talked about their faith. One was even a Sunday School teacher in an evangelical church, and we all know how bad he was.
I’ve said that before as well. Balance is needed. I posted up further on the thread, actually.
No, the media go out of their way to make it look like Dobson is the only one to comment on Fred. I’m more inclined to distrust the liberal MSM than a decent Christian man trying to honor God as well as he can.
Fred’s fine. He’s spunky that way. I’m pro-Dobson, and I’m pro-Fred. Just like the MSM doesn’t want me to be.
The biggest problem here is that the Christian Right keeps forgetting that they’re NOT the only voters out there. They are a great help to the party, and we can’t win without them, true. The problem is that they (in large part) have a rather bad image among the far-greater-in-size mass of people out there who ALSO have votes and use them on occasion.Not everyone out there has a high opinion of Falwell, Robertson, Dobson. ( I’d take Graham as an exception, I don’t know of many who think ill of him). There’s a REASON that the spoof character the Church Lady became popular on SNL.. because the humor had a bit of the truth in it. Far too many “Christians” out there think that THEIR particular way is the ONLY way. Christ is the ONLY way, but the way we each interpret His words is going to vary considerably. I’m not saying we have to tolerate the more extreme examples, but I think there are far too many who are willing here to consign those who worship differently to the eternal flames of damnation.
For whatever reason, Fred, who is largely acceptable to most on the right, also has considerable appeal to the non-religious-right masses. Here on FR, we’re almost an echo-chamber, not as bad as the one the Left lives in, but sometimes almost as short-sighted in our quest for ideological purity. We need to nominate someone who agrees with us as much as possible, on as many issues as possible,without looking like a kook or a fanatic to the average, everyday folks out there.We need the Christian Right, but we also need the Christian Moderate, the economic conservatives, etc. The people that may not be as committed of Christians as we like, or as fervently in support of FairTax or Social Security Reform, or as vehemently opposed to gun control, or whatever our individual hobby-horses are. FR is NOT representative of the American public at large, because we’re a self-selected group of internet-using, highly involved, conservatives. Tell me where that makes up a majority of the US? We need a majority, or at least a plurality to get someone acceptable to us elected President. I’m not saying we have to go wobbly, but if we straitjacket our choice to 100% purity, we’re TOAST. And rather burnt toast at that. The stakes are too high this time for us to become badly-cooked breakfast food.
Excellent summary. Your post is basically what I, in about 20 posts today...was trying to articulate.
Is this true or was Fred a liar last night?
Your Response:
Fred did say that someone from Dobson's office called to apologize about that flack in March...this article is from
July. (in another post it was stated that Fred sent an email to Dobson back in March.)Since then the supposed leaked email came out. And if you heard Fred ...he said that Dobson could apologize again. But neither has “spoken” to the other.
so sorry no lie.
I must say that someone here is not telling the truth!
Mr. Gilgoff who stated that "Dobson and Thompson have since talked"
Fred Thompson"Someone from his Dobson's office called"
Taking the statements from the Associated Press and WUSWN& Reports and bashing a Dr. Dobson as a moron is exactly what the left wants US to do. And too many Freepers here are more than willing to participate with glee!
When it is convenient to side with the MSM to support the trashing of the a Conservative Christian like Dr. Dobson it is beyond my personal understanding. Statements like:
" I am a Christian, but I am getting sick and tired of the Dobson's and Robertson's of this world thinking they can speak for me. "
Thinking that they can speak for me? What would make someone believe that this is what they Think? This is a fact less statement. I am sure that these men do not "think" that they speak for anyone but themselves. Just who are these people that have Dr. Dobson "speak" for them?
"Mr Dobson needs to remember that he’s not Christ and therefore does not make the decision on who and who is not a Christian."
When did Dr. Dobson lose the right to his opinion? Does he think that he is Christ? Way would anyone help the Liberals with this post? The Left is winning here again by leading people with "leaked emails and having them support their undeniable hatred for the Conservative Christian. Again The left cannot thank you enough.
"I have never hated Dr. Dobson, never felt or posted negatively about him, but based on what i have seen attributed to him, i think he is wrongheaded in this and it has affected my opinion of him."
From a Freeper since 1998! A blatant smear job from the MSM has affected your opinion of a good man. I am losing all hope these days when I read things like this. I guess your opinion of Rush has been affected also?
"Christians pretty much ran the show for 20 years. Now Christians are going back to sulking in the corner."
Unbelievable that I can read this on the FR. Sulking in the corner?
" About time someone put this jackass in his place"
Amazing.
The Judgmental, fact less, and hateful opinions expressed in this thread toward Christians and Dr. Dobson make his opinion of Thompson just a pinprick compared to the character assasinations by Freepers. You are all upset about two "liberal as they come sources" and assist the left with smearing Dr. Dobson and "Born Again Christians" I would wager that 95% do not know a thing about Dr. Dobson or his ministry.
Do Freepers believe that the Christian Voters in the USA are a worthless voting block that have become irrelevant? That has been a message that the Liberals have been infecting the MSM with for a few years now. Seem some Freepers also subscribe to that lie.
AMAZING
Why would "far too many" Christians believe otherwise? That is silly. Of course they think that. What would the alternative be?
"The problem is that they (in large part) have a rather bad image among the far-greater-in-size mass of people out there who ALSO have votes"
I wonder where that "image" came from? Could it be the smear machine from the Liberal MSM?
Mission accomplished!
I thought that it was the left was intolerant? This is an amazing thread.
“You are all upset about two “liberal as they come sources” and assist the left “
Perchance you take a tad of your own advice. And might I add that you take a deep breath and read what the words are ...in my posts anyway...and not put your own interpretation in them.
Isnt that what you are asking of everyone concerning Dr.Dobson?
You put down people because they bought into two liberal as they come sources. Had you read this thread and follow the links offered you might have come across this...
http://www.citizenlink.org/content/A000004681.cfm
In it Dr. Dobson says, Unfortunately, the media has not been willing to let the issue die – Gilgoff is still suggesting there is controversy where there is none.
You quote Gilgoff as your source for your assertion that someone is lying. Maybe as you detest the same buy in of others, you should not take him at his word.
I have a suggestion since this seems to bother you so.
It too is from a link that someone provided....
http://www.focusaction.org/press/A000000236.cfm
They offer this....Anyone who ever has a question concerning what they read about Dr. Dobson or Focus on the Family is encouraged to contact us for clarification. The chances are they have been misinformed.”
maybe you could contact them and set us all straight.
Good night.
My whole basis of every post is distrust for the MSM and people like Gilgoff. You posted links that I brought to this thread. I am not going to sit by and watch the FR carry the message of hate towards the Conservative Christian movement and smear a good man like Dr. Dobson.
Good links..they brought some clarity...and they should have stayed your focus.
Why then pose a question that is indeed disingenuous.
You could have quoted to show what point you wanted to make.
Instead it came across as argumentative and lost the real meaning and the opportunity to show if only one person, a different perspective.
Please take this in the spirit it is meant.
Its in the approach...sometimes confrontation becomes just that, and no one learns a dang thing.
I know its easy to get heated over things we hold dear. But lets try to remember ...at the end of the day we really are in this together. And we better get it together before its too late. Lets not lose the sight of what should be our focus.
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