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Who's Fueling Whom? - Why the biofuels movement could run out of gas
Smithsonian ^ | November 2007 | Richard Conniff

Posted on 11/24/2007 7:19:51 PM PST by neverdem

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To: P-40
But how certain are we of uranium reserves and what is their location?

Use breeder reactors to turn U238 into plutonium and use the plutonium as fuel. If it's on a military reservation, we can have tight control on the fuel

81 posted on 11/25/2007 11:53:07 AM PST by PapaBear3625
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To: PapaBear3625

That would solve two problems at once, power needs and storage needs. From what I understand, the product of the breeder reactors can be turned into a glassy substance that would not be good for a bomb unless you had some serious technological skills.


82 posted on 11/25/2007 12:12:17 PM PST by P-40 (Al Qaeda was working in Iraq. They were just undocumented.)
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To: P-40
"I would only have subsidies for other methods until they also are proven to make no economic sense."

I would only have subsidies for other methods

You took my statement out of context, and then give a questionable reason for doing so.

If you were a major corporation, would you invest in other ways of making ethanol and other biofuels, and there are many, without some sort of signal from the government that they are here to stay? Tax credits, or subsidies if you prefer, are one signal that they are here to stay.

Or we can continue to trade our currency for foreign products.

If you look at the inflation in food prices, the dollar's value is being decreased either way. Subsidies for corn derived ethanol don't make sense. They need to be phased out.

83 posted on 11/25/2007 12:28:20 PM PST by neverdem (Call talk radio. We need a Constitutional Amendment for Congressional term limits. Let's Roll!)
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To: neverdem

The high price of corn has temporarily ended a lot of direct subsidies that farmers received and even with the tax credits, ethanol from corn is getting less profitable, hence the research into other methods of making it. Now that there is getting to be an established market for the product, the research dollars are pouring in to find new ways of making the product.


84 posted on 11/25/2007 12:40:22 PM PST by P-40 (Al Qaeda was working in Iraq. They were just undocumented.)
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To: P-40; All
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html#othercrops

This link will tell you more about Biodiesel and what is the result from each crop. Himp produces about 39 gal per acre, rape seed is 127 gal per acre, there are many that will produce more than rapeseed, but you then need to consider the locations of production and cost of production.

85 posted on 11/25/2007 2:56:02 PM PST by org.whodat (What's the difference between a Democrat and a republican????)
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To: org.whodat
This is a good link to a recent RAND study on diesels and hybrids.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007/11/rand-study-find.html
86 posted on 11/25/2007 3:15:51 PM PST by P-40 (Al Qaeda was working in Iraq. They were just undocumented.)
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To: kinoxi

I wonder how many farts it would take to power my work truck for a day (I drive for Schwans, and my truck runs off of propane).... I would guess that one singe good fart would have the energy to bring at least one piston from TDC on ignition all the way back through the cycle...


87 posted on 11/25/2007 3:44:59 PM PST by Schwaeky (The Republic--Shall be reorganized into the first American EMPIRE, for a safe and secure Society!)
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To: Schwaeky
I wonder how many farts it would take to power my work truck for a day

Depends on how large the farter is and how many quarts of soup beans they have consumed.

88 posted on 11/25/2007 6:18:18 PM PST by org.whodat (What's the difference between a Democrat and a republican????)
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To: org.whodat
Never going to happen, the most efficient plant for making biodiesel is rape seed, what is called canola oil.

The most efficient plant is probably genetically engineered algae, which is where most of the research work on biodiesel is going on today.

Soybean oil, however, is more or less a byproduct of milling the soybeans into cattle feed.

I notice that this article plays fast and loose with the difference between biodiesel, which actually works and doesn't necessarily have to drive food prices up, and corn-based ethanol, which gives lower mileage in engines not engineered for it (= most of them) and is guaranteed to drive food prices up.

89 posted on 11/25/2007 7:58:24 PM PST by Campion
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To: neverdem; AdmSmith; Berosus; Convert from ECUSA; dervish; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Fred Nerks; ...

[(sort of) singing] Your trash ain’t nothin’ but gas...

Pull my finger ping.

Methane, the ultimate stock bubble.


90 posted on 11/25/2007 8:13:10 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Sunday, November 18, 2007"'"'"'"'"'"'"'"'"'"'https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Hunterite

I meant, could they take leaves from trees and do what they do with turkey guts or any other stock feed to make biofuels with ?


91 posted on 11/25/2007 9:01:11 PM PST by Prophet in the wilderness (PSALM .53 : 1 The FOOL hath said in his heart, there is no GOD.)
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To: All

Oh look “the matrix” is on TV again.

How many times did they violate the Conservation of Energy in The Matrix?

Its amazing how this popular movie appeals to such an ignorant audience. “Oh golly I didn’t know you could squeeze erngy out of a human body.”

What Democrats have done to science is unforgiveable. Its also heresy. I wonder if the Catholics felt the same way about religious heresy. Anger.


92 posted on 11/25/2007 10:25:35 PM PST by Hunterite
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To: fightinJAG
I don’t know if that’s entirely true.

I’ve worked at home for the last 20+ years.

The energy costs for my home are substantially higher as a result. Computers, lights, heating and cooling through the day.

I don’t know how those increases balance against the reduction of energy used for transportation.

93 posted on 11/26/2007 1:36:47 AM PST by DB
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To: Schwaeky

The question is how many beans does it take...


94 posted on 11/26/2007 1:50:17 AM PST by DB
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To: Hunterite

It’s call science fiction...

Jeesh...

How’s that Warp thing going...


95 posted on 11/26/2007 1:55:07 AM PST by DB
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To: Campion
I notice that this article plays fast and loose with the difference between biodiesel,

The reason I said the writing was a piece of biased trash. All seed even peanut is put under hydraulic pressure and the oil comes out, have read about the alga and the process a VT, professor has patented but they both seem to have a way to go.

96 posted on 11/26/2007 5:09:21 AM PST by org.whodat (What's the difference between a Democrat and a republican????)
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To: Campion

Planting soybeans, or any other legume that I know of, is a good way to ‘fix’ nitrogen in the soil. In some areas, it makes a nice winter cover to get the fertilizer benefits and to hold the soil in place.


97 posted on 11/26/2007 7:30:24 AM PST by P-40 (Al Qaeda was working in Iraq. They were just undocumented.)
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To: Prophet in the wilderness

That would be biomass production, another area that a lot of research is going into.


98 posted on 11/26/2007 7:31:59 AM PST by P-40 (Al Qaeda was working in Iraq. They were just undocumented.)
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To: P-40
No, it’s increased per pound. Current cost is about 5k per pound.
99 posted on 11/26/2007 4:27:37 PM PST by John Jamieson
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To: Campion

Well, ethanol does work, what you said is something of a misnomer.. Ethanol policy based solely on corn, is doomed to failure for all the reasons mentioned above. Sugar ethanol, switch grass, etc, and any combination not solely relying on corn, however is an excellent idea. Anything less shows one to be beholden, financially or psychologically, to oil interests..

Energy policy needs to be diverse and open to multiple sources to fuel our energy needs, not bet the farm on one single source...


100 posted on 11/27/2007 9:58:46 PM PST by Schwaeky (The Republic--Shall be reorganized into the first American EMPIRE, for a safe and secure Society!)
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