Skip to comments.New campaign debate: Is Satan Jesus' brother?
Posted on 12/13/2007 12:10:33 AM PST by tessalu
WASHINGTON Satan has reared his ugly head in the 2008 presidential campaign literally. Republican presidential candidate Mike Huckabee has prompted angry denunciations of religious bigotry by rival Mitt Romney as well as an official retort from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for speculating in a New York Times Magazine interview this weekend that Mormons believe Jesus and Satan were brothers.
"On first hearing, the doctrine that Lucifer and our Lord, Jesus Christ, are brothers may seem surprising to some especially to those unacquainted with latter-day revelations," says the statement. "But both the scriptures and the prophets affirm that Jesus Christ and Lucifer are indeed offspring of our Heavenly Father and, therefore, spirit brothers. Jesus Christ was with the Father from the beginning. Lucifer, too, was an angel "who was in authority in the presence of God," a "son of the morning." (See Isa. 14:12; D&C 76:2527.) Both Jesus and Lucifer were strong leaders with great knowledge and influence. But as the Firstborn of the Father, Jesus was Lucifer's older brother. (See Col. 1:15; D&C 93:21.)"
(Excerpt) Read more at worldnetdaily.com ...
Hmmm, maybe God is in control after all.
There’s a difference between what’s legal and what’s moral. I’ll continue “testing” candidates based on their religious views. For instance, I’ll never vote for a muslim.
From Job, in the Bible:
1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
....... Any Questions?
The problem with Romney’s theology is that it reveals a strongly supersessionist bent - newer, better ideas replace the outdated. This, as well as his political history, would suggest that he would be very comfortable with a loose constructionist view of the Constitution.
“Angels are created beings and have NO brothers. They were not born of a woman, but were created by God.”
Not only that, but, “He was a liar from the beginning and the father of it”.
Ah, but he may get surprised!
Personally, I've come to the conclusion that he's the best of the uninspiring crop of Republican choices.
Amen brother. Does the clay crow to the potter? Can the created boast to the Creator?
yes, whats your point?
I'm not picking a leader who even talks about this subject as a matter of public discourse.
This is their hobby. They're the folks that will copy and paste 98 lines of scripture on any thread you can imagine. Just scroll down on this thread.
And, of those, 64.25675% are expressed to a ridiculous level of precision.
Exactly! And this is why Romney's 'great' speech about his religion proved him to be a hypocrite on yet another topic. His references to Jesus in his speech were not in keeping with the teachings of the Mormon religion.
Not sure what your point is, but that scripture pretty much proves that Satan is NOT a son of God, therefore, Satan is NOT a brother of Jesus.
Wait a minute...are you saying that someone actually wrote the bible? Someone actually translated the original text? Some committee decided that it was “the word of God?” Say it aint so.....
” If a candidate is moral (average American morals) then I dont care what religion they follow.”
Hello, my name is Abdur Abaka Rahman and I’m running for president of the USA. Thank you for your support.
I do not like to pay taxes either, and I resent more than anything politicians USING God or Jesus as their vehicle to legislate compassion or taxes for good Samaritan deeds. It does pay to know what is actually Written to discern when a Bible totting politician tries to guilt with legislation by passing their tax plate.
YEAH! We need to be more like, uh France!
Hardnly, perhaps Rudy should be asked about whether or not the Eucharist is really transubstantiated or not..
The important issues, for any candidate, with respect to religion are:
So let's have a look at Romney's religion and how it will influence his decisions as president.
broncobilly's post on a previous thread provides a good start:
| Abstract theology is not as important as how that theology is meant to translate into public positions. For example:
1) Romneys religion believes in God, and therefore that mane sovereignty comes from God, not government.
And I agree, We should be more interested in Romney living up to the ideals of his religion rather than dismissing him because of his religion.
To this list, I will add some other LDS teachings:
8) We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may. (AOF 11)
9) We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law. (AOF 12)
10) We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of PaulWe believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things. (AOF 13)
11) We do not believe that human law has a right to interfere in prescribing rules of worship to bind the consciences of men, nor dictate forms for public or private devotion; that the civil magistrate should restrain crime, but never control conscience; should punish guilt, but never suppress the freedom of the soul. (D&C 134:4)
12) We believe that rulers, states, and governments have a right, and are bound to enact laws for the protection of all citizens in the free exercise of their religious belief; but we do not believe that they have a right in justice to deprive citizens of this privilege, or proscribe them in their opinions, so long as a regard and reverence are shown to the laws and such religious opinions do not justify sedition nor conspiracy. (D&C 134:7)
This may also be of interest for general information about the LDS Church: Faith, Family, Facts, & Fruits by LDS Apostle M. Russell Ballard.
BTW, My current preference is #1: Hunter, #2: Thompson, #3: Romney. In my opinion, these are the only candidates who are right on "most" of the important issues.
And this matters to the campaign how? The problem with Romney isn’t his Mormonism. It’s his liberalism that’s the problem. Go debate the peculiarities of Mormon theology someplace else.
Just one: why would anyone think that Satan is Jesus' brother?
I personally don't think worshipping Satan is a wise choice.
God created Satan. That’s all I need to know.
BIG mistake, IMO.
I think the problem starts with what that 'brotherhood' means to LDS and non-LDS audiences. From the LDS perspective, we are all spiritually born of Heavenly Father, including Christ and his followers (everyone born on earth), and Satan and his followers [else who created them?]. As such, we are all spirit siblings but Christ is the only begotten of the Father [born as a biological child of Heavenly Father with a physical body]. Some anti-LDS authors want to imply that our belief that Satan's spiritual father is the same as Christ's is in conflict with the statement that Christ is the only begotten. Here is the official press release on this issue from the LDS.org Newsroom:
SALT LAKE CITY 12 December 2007 Like other Christians, we believe Jesus is the divine Son of God. Satan is a fallen angel.Certainly some of this doctrine will seem strange to Trinitarian Christians. With so many religions with different doctrines, it's apparent some (all?) of us are at least a little off track. Christians believe the Jews missed a switch and are caught in a loop waiting for the coming of the Messiah, whom we believe already came. Catholics believe they've always been on track. Protestants believe Catholics drifted away and various Protestant Reformers set the church back on the right track. Mormons believe all of these are still on the wrong track and Heavenly Father revealed to Joseph Smith where the right track is. We are all worshiping our understanding of the same God. In the end, God will judge if we lived our lives according to the knowledge we were given.
As the Apostle Paul wrote, God is the Father of all. That means that all beings were created by God and are His spirit children. Christ, however, was the only begotten in the flesh, and we worship Him as the Son of God and the Savior of mankind.
Regarding how religion should imfluence selecting a candidate for President, see Post 72.
Thank you for that post.
Nor do I. But that's his call, not mine.
It is not ‘my’ point but rather what we can deduce from the words of the Holy Bible. The sons (a mystery for another thread) gathered and Satan came ALSO among them.
To me, this clearly shows that Satan was not among the group of sons.
I would not say, “I gathered all the people that were in the house and also 2 that were in the living room”. Redundant, don’t you think?
It would make more sense to say, “ I gathered all the people that were in the house and also 2 from the street outside.” The 2 from the street were not in the group in the house.
“This is silly, and unbecoming in a pluralistic Republic.
YEAH! We need to be more like, uh France!”
I’d much rather live in France than some FReepers’ theocratic utopia.
Really, jude, do you think a Satan worshipper would lead America wisely!!!???
I think MANY Mormons don’t realize what their DOCTRINES say.
Do you not recognize rhetorical exaggeration when you see it?
LOL Nice try, jude!
I'm certainly not a prophet, but I have no problem in predicting that the growth of the LDS Church will CONTINUE to slow dramatically and the actual size will DECREASE globally, as it already is in the US.
Thanks for your help, Mitt! Run, Mitt, run!
Are you suggesting that questioning whether the Mormon church teaches that Satan and Jesus are brothers is an attack? You do know that that is exactly what they believe, don't you? If you don't like the sounds of that theology, then you should be upset at the Mormons for teaching such a thing and not mad at someone for uttering the truth. Talk about backwards!
Nope, no questions. The Bible is clearly separating Satan from "the sons of God". The Bible makes it clear that Satan was an angel. The Bible also makes it clear that NO angel has ever been called a "son of God".
Thanks for pointing this verse out!
I agree 100%, or at least they haven't really thought things through and taken them to their ultimate conclusion. For instance, let's delve into this whole Jesus/Satan thing a bit. According to LDS theology, God the Father, a physical being, had sex with umpteen wives (also physical beings) and their offspring were not physical children, but "spirits". Hmm. Ok. Anyway, 3 of those spirit children resulting from physical intimacy were Satan, Jesus, and Mary. Now, stay with me...LDS doctrine also holds that God the Father had sex with Mary to make her pregnant with Jesus. To sum it up, they believe that God had sex with one of his wives to give birth to Jesus' spirit, then had sex with another woman to give birth to Jesus' body. The second person He had sex with was not one of His wives, but was in fact His (spirit) daughter.
Now, seriously, is that twisted or what?!
“Is Satan Jesus’ brother?”
(Don’t know Him, Know Hell.)
(Don’t know Him, Know Hell.)
I’m afraid that my opinion on this divisive subject might be considered somewhat biased.
While the political offices of the nation do not require, nor are they associated with the salvation or believing status of the candidate, God still judges and discerns not only individually, but by groups also.
If one is unwilling to discern the difference between God and the Adversary, nor commit to remaining faithful to one or the other in our choice of leadership, then the remainder of the political issues really only involve worldly constructs without any divinely value in the promotion of good works.
IMHO, those candidates who are so woefully neglectful of the basics of fellowship with God through faith in Christ are not qualified in worldly leadership, while being tested in their belief to remain faithful. Accordingly, IMHO, such candidates are not worthy of even consideration of the position.
Doesn't say much for Somebody's parenting skills.
Is that what their doctrine says??? REALLY??? Are you certain??? That is unbelievable! WEIRD and SACRILIGIOUS.
Ah I see. Sorry I didn’t understand what you were saying.
I agree. That is straightforward.
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