Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Iraqi Army to Ditch AK-47s for M-16s
Military.com ^ | February 27, 2008 | Christian Lowe

Posted on 03/06/2008 10:27:33 AM PST by gandalftb

In a move that could be the most enduring imprint of U.S. influence in the Arab world, American military officials in Baghdad have begun a crash program to outfit the entire Iraqi army with M-16 rifles.

The initiative marks a sharp break for a culture steeped in the traditions of the Soviet-era AK-47 Kalashnikov assault rifle, a symbol of revolutionary zeal and third-world simplicity that is ubiquitous among the militaries of the Middle East.

"We in the U.S. know that the M-16 is superior to the AK ... it's more durable," said Army Col. Stephen Scott, who's in charge of helping the Iraqi army get all the equipment it needs to outfit its forces.

"The Iraqis have embraced that ... and the fact that it is U.S. manufactured and supplied. They are very big on U.S.-produced [foreign military sales] materials," he said in an interview with military bloggers this month.

So far, the U.S. military has helped the Iraqi army purchase 43,000 rifles - a mix of full-stock M-16A2s and compact M-4 carbines. Another 50,000 rifles are currently on order, and the objective is to outfit the entire Iraqi army with 165,000 American rifles in a one-for-one replacement of the AK-47.

"Our goal is to give every Iraqi soldier an M-16A2 or an M-4," Scott said. "And as the Iraqi army grows, we will adjust."

Scott added the mass of AK-47s from various manufacturers floating through the Iraqi army's inventory could cause maintenance and reliability problems. Getting both U.S. and Iraqi forces on the same page when it comes to basic weaponry is part of the argument for M-16 outfitting.

"I'm also a fan of AKs," Scott said. "But keep in mind most of these AKs have been sitting around in bunkers or whatnot for 30 or 40 years [and] are in various stages of disrepair."

A variety of U.S. troops, including SEALs, Marines and Soldiers - and even civilian contractors - are training Iraqis on the M-16 and M-4 throughout the country. One civilian trainer told Military.com during a brief interview in Iraq that the Iraqi soldiers are a little behind the average American trooper when it comes to learning the various parts and breakdown of the M-16, but they're enthusiastic and quick learners on the range.

After seeing some of the firing range training himself, Scott added that he "asked the Iraqis how they liked the weapon and they said it was far superior, it was more accurate ... and more reliable."

"I think the transition is almost transparent from those older AKs," he said.

A system that registers each rifle with the individual who receives it using biometric data such as thumb prints and eye scans is meant to address concerns over U.S. weapons winding up in enemy hands. A July 2007 Government Accountability Office report concluded that as many as 190,000 weapons delivered to the Iraqi army were not accounted for and could've wound up in terrorist caches.

That's something Scott isn't going to allow on his watch.

"These Iraqi soldiers know that this weapon becomes part of their person," he said. "And they also know that they are responsible and accountable for that weapon."

And from the looks of it, Iraqi soldiers aren't willing to hand them over to the bad guys.

"Most of the soldiers think they will be just like the Americans, and that is making them very happy," said Capt. Rafaat Mejal Ahmed, the Iraqi 1st Division weapons and ammunition officer, in a Marine Corps release. "They think the modern technology will make them more powerful."


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: ak47; banglist; iraq; iraqiarmy; m16
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100 ... 121-131 next last
To: 76Tiger

I have a Norinco Sporter and know what you are talking about, I can shoot clean through an oak tree of 36” diameter with it and still pack enough punch to penetrate 3/4” plywood using full metal jacket ammo. Surplus russian ammo with soft lead load would only go just past halfway of tree trunk. AK is a good gun for guerilla type combatant but I would prefer an M14 type weapon for profesional military.


61 posted on 03/06/2008 11:33:31 AM PST by Camel Joe (liberal=socialist=royalist/imperialist pawn=enemy of Freedom)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: Bosco

I guess what I’m most concerned with is making sure an enemy combatant can’t get off another shot or two after being hit. With a 7.62 that isn’t much of a problem. A 6.8 would be a step in the right direction, but I’m not sure why it would be better than going all the way to a 7.62.


62 posted on 03/06/2008 11:34:37 AM PST by DoughtyOne (Some think McCain should pick his No 2 now. I thought the nominee was No 2. And that No 1s me off!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies]

To: gandalftb
"These Iraqi soldiers know that this weapon becomes part of their person," he said. "And they also know that they are responsible and accountable for that weapon."

This is my rifle. There are many others like it, but this one is mine ...

63 posted on 03/06/2008 11:35:31 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: WakeUpAndVote

In addition to everything said before (mainly, you can carry a lot more 223 rounds than 762) a study done by the Army infantry department in WW-II found that in an infantry engagement only 25% of infantry men fired their rifles. The exception was the BAR man (one per squad), who fired 90% of the time.

Psychologically, a man with an automatic rifle is more likely to believe that he can affect the outcome of an engagement. If you’re going to be firing on AUTO your ammo will last longer if it’s 223 than 762. The difference in lethality is less important than getting lead on target.


64 posted on 03/06/2008 11:36:36 AM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets (The women got the vote and the Nation got Harding.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: DoughtyOne
Why a 6.8? Just curious.

6.8SPC is designed to fit in an M-16 magazine. Just change the upper to the 6.8SPC barrel. The greater mass of the bullet is less affected by wind and delivers more terminal energy.

65 posted on 03/06/2008 11:36:48 AM PST by Myrddin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: DoughtyOne
M-16 platform in 7.62 is doable. Here's a review.
66 posted on 03/06/2008 11:38:15 AM PST by Bosco (Remember how you felt on September 11?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 62 | View Replies]

To: Myrddin

Does it have the same diameter only longer?

I do like the idea of more stopping power.


67 posted on 03/06/2008 11:39:49 AM PST by DoughtyOne (Some think McCain should pick his No 2 now. I thought the nominee was No 2. And that No 1s me off!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 65 | View Replies]

To: Bosco

Very good. Thanks for the link.


68 posted on 03/06/2008 11:41:36 AM PST by DoughtyOne (Some think McCain should pick his No 2 now. I thought the nominee was No 2. And that No 1s me off!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 66 | View Replies]

To: DoughtyOne

I just did a search @ Bushmaster for a 7.62. They make a sniper rifle (bolt action), but not the AR-10 type.


69 posted on 03/06/2008 11:44:20 AM PST by Bosco (Remember how you felt on September 11?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 68 | View Replies]

To: DoughtyOne
Here's a 6.8SPC vs. 7.62 discussion.
70 posted on 03/06/2008 11:48:18 AM PST by Bosco (Remember how you felt on September 11?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 68 | View Replies]

To: 76Tiger

But, as I remember, the problem was that the soldiers were using armor-piercing rounds, so the rounds would go right through the Somalis, and not fragment and do internal damage. Although higher-caliber rounds always help. But you’ll have less of them. And it’s true what they say - you can never have too much ammo!


71 posted on 03/06/2008 11:48:32 AM PST by tlj18 (2008 is the Year of the Rat. So say the Chinese (zhong ren).)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: Bosco

I have shot both .223 AK & AR... both work...

my AK did not jam, my friends LMT M4 did


72 posted on 03/06/2008 11:51:20 AM PST by MD_Willington_1976
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 53 | View Replies]

To: Bosco

Thanks. I appreciate the information related to the 6.8 vs 7.62. These links have helped a lot.


73 posted on 03/06/2008 11:53:02 AM PST by DoughtyOne (Some think McCain should pick his No 2 now. I thought the nominee was No 2. And that No 1s me off!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 70 | View Replies]

To: MuttTheHoople

My nephew is on his second tour over there and he tells me that nobody carries their weapons wet with anything. They all use dry lube.


74 posted on 03/06/2008 12:05:54 PM PST by SirFishalot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: TLI

No kidding. The M16 is a great gun, if you can take care of it...and not leave it outside of the tent in a sandstorm.


75 posted on 03/06/2008 12:09:54 PM PST by July 4th
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: doorgunner69

With some Blackhawk gear, you could carry more than 6 magazines of 7.62.

=)


76 posted on 03/06/2008 12:10:55 PM PST by wastedyears (Iron Maiden in two weeks' time.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Bosco

Heckler and Koch make the 416.


77 posted on 03/06/2008 12:15:26 PM PST by wastedyears (Iron Maiden in two weeks' time.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 53 | View Replies]

To: DoughtyOne
The 6.8SPC is essentially a .277 caliber bullet with a 115 gr weight. The 5.56 is .224 caliber 69 gr (green tip). See the article here for a review of characteristics.
78 posted on 03/06/2008 12:17:09 PM PST by Myrddin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 67 | View Replies]

To: gandalftb
"We in the U.S. know that the M-16 is superior to the AK ... it's more durable"

People like this are one of the reasons we are still fighting in Iraq and that ammo prices are going through the roof.

If we were fighting poodles in a sterile Clean Room the M-16 would be the ticket.

Fighting Jihadis in the real world the M-16 and the .223 round are at a disadvantage - it just doesn't have the stopping power of the AK and is too susceptible to malfunction from a dirty environmenmt.

This poodle shooter and round got a lot of our guys killed in Nam and I have hated it ever since.

79 posted on 03/06/2008 12:18:16 PM PST by Iron Munro (Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: WakeUpAndVote

My Son in Law has a M-16 in .308, that’s a real mean little motor scooter. .


80 posted on 03/06/2008 12:33:57 PM PST by oyez (Justa' another high minded lowlife.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100 ... 121-131 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson