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Catholics Debate Obama Vote
townhall.com ^ | June 06, 2008 | Kathryn Jean Lopez

Posted on 06/08/2008 10:22:04 AM PDT by kellynla

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1 posted on 06/08/2008 10:22:04 AM PDT by kellynla
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To: Salvation; NYer; narses

ping


2 posted on 06/08/2008 10:22:31 AM PDT by kellynla (Freedom of speech makes it easier to spot the idiots! Semper Fi!)
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To: kellynla
... who went from being a Mitt Romney adviser to an Obama supporter.

Which shows that he is well versed in political expediency.

3 posted on 06/08/2008 10:25:30 AM PDT by glorgau
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To: kellynla

Can a Catholic be for Barack Obama?

No, nor can any other true Christian.


4 posted on 06/08/2008 10:30:49 AM PDT by DarthVader (Liberal Democrats are the party of EVIL whose time of judgement has come.)
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To: kellynla

I thought B.O. was the “messiah” (cough)?

Now where are those pesky nails...


5 posted on 06/08/2008 10:32:29 AM PDT by max americana
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To: DarthVader

Kansas’ governor, Sebilius, is supposedly in charge of Catholic outreach for Obama and wants more than anything to be chosen as VP. However, she’s been enjoined from taking communion because she is, first and foremost, a pro-abort politician. And she was just caught trying to stiff the Kansas taxpayers with the bill for a party she threw for her biggest benefactor and at-birth abortionist, George Tiller and some of his abortionist friends.


6 posted on 06/08/2008 10:36:05 AM PDT by Kanzan
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To: kellynla
"Can a Catholic be for Barack Obama?"

Sure. Same as the Jews voted for Keith Ellison.

7 posted on 06/08/2008 10:37:55 AM PDT by Past Your Eyes (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it.)
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To: kellynla
I was asked, in all seriousness, if Catholics can even vote. After all, war is bad. The death penalty is bad. Abortion is bad.

How insulting. This question was asked by a Clueless, whose goal was to insult and who has no idea what it means to be a Catholic, knows nothing of the Catholic Church and doesn't really want to know.

Worth repeating:
Catholics need to know what their Church teaches. Know your candidate. Know abortion isn't just any issue.
8 posted on 06/08/2008 10:39:42 AM PDT by socialismisinsidious ( The socialist income tax system turns US citizens into beggars or quitters!)
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To: DarthVader
Can a Catholic be for Barack Obama?

No, nor can any other true Christian.

I used to have a quote by our pastor as my tagline some time ago. It was one of those rare occassions where he takes off his clerical collar - when the discussion is political.

"I don't know how any Christian can go to Church on Sunday and vote for a democrat on Tuesday."

9 posted on 06/08/2008 10:41:55 AM PDT by Arrowhead1952 (Typical white person, bitter, religious, gun owner, who will "Just say No to BO in Nov.")
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To: kellynla
Can a Catholic be for Barack Obama?
 
No.  The Catholic Church has denounced liberation theology, socialism, and is passionately pro-life.  (Nor does the Church endorse unrestrained Capitalism, but neither does America.)
 
The Vatican has renewed its commitment to the war on terror and has condemned climate alarmists.   The Church has long aknowledged freedom as the safekeeper of the natural law and of human rights. 
 
A Catholic can vote for a Democrat but not for the radical Barack Obama.  Obama is a finger in the face of the See of Peter.
 
 
 

10 posted on 06/08/2008 10:46:56 AM PDT by littlehouse36 (Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. -- G. K. Chesterton)
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To: kellynla

We stopped Saddam Hussein’s reign of terror. He was responsible for the deaths of 1.3 million innocents. We don’t target innocents and go out of our way to protect them. The enemy slaughters innocents. This Catholic is behind a war whose purpose is to stop evil.

Barack Obama would not even vote yes to protect an aborted baby who was alive when ripped from the womb. How can any Catholic support that?


11 posted on 06/08/2008 10:47:05 AM PDT by doug from upland (Stopping Hillary should be a FreeRepublic Manhattan Project)
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To: Arrowhead1952

I say Amen to your pastor!


12 posted on 06/08/2008 10:47:31 AM PDT by Doctor Don
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To: Arrowhead1952

Your pastor is wise.


13 posted on 06/08/2008 10:48:42 AM PDT by DarthVader (Liberal Democrats are the party of EVIL whose time of judgement has come.)
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To: kellynla
It's the kind of reason we will be able to explain, with a clean heart, to the victims of abortion when we meet them face to face in the next life -- which we most certainly will.

No offense intended, but is this really Catholic doctrine?

Every fertilized egg, natural miscarriage and induced abortion is an immortal soul that presumably goes to heaven, since it has had no chance to sin? That will significantly increase the population.

14 posted on 06/08/2008 10:49:27 AM PDT by Sherman Logan (Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves. - A. Lincoln)
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To: Sherman Logan

“but is this really Catholic doctrine?”

is what Catholic docrine?


15 posted on 06/08/2008 10:52:13 AM PDT by kellynla (Freedom of speech makes it easier to spot the idiots! Semper Fi!)
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To: kellynla

The writer must not be familiar with the “Just War Doctrine” of the Catholic Church.


16 posted on 06/08/2008 10:52:22 AM PDT by Cuchulain ("...never treat with the enemy; never surrender to his mercy, but fight to the finish.")
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To: kellynla
Can a Catholic be for Barack Obama?

The question should be how could an American vote for Obama.
Should not any person that wants to be the President of the United States at least believe in their core that America is the greatest Nation on the planet and its people are the best?
I know it is not a written requirement in the Constitution but it is one of those things that our founders could never have believed needed addressed.

17 posted on 06/08/2008 11:01:09 AM PDT by SECURE AMERICA (Patriot Guard Riders - Standing for those that stood for us.)
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To: kellynla

Here’s my debate: NO.

It isn’t just Obambi’s disregard for life, it is his Marxian worldview and his choice of friends.


18 posted on 06/08/2008 11:05:25 AM PDT by OpusatFR (School of Cynics)
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To: kellynla

The answer is an emphatic NO.


19 posted on 06/08/2008 11:05:40 AM PDT by ishabibble (ALL-AMERICAN INFIDEL)
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To: kellynla

-— Can a Catholic be for Barack Obama? -—

Not one that’s got an ounce of morals.


20 posted on 06/08/2008 11:06:31 AM PDT by boycott
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To: kellynla
Contraception, masturbation etc. are like all sins, sins of selfishness, putting our own pleasures before God. They are acts of the individual and most often affect no other person beyond the actor( actors in the case of a couple.) But abortion reaches beyond as it impacts the existence of another human.

The Holy Church sees contraception as sinful, but it understands that many others do not and to seek to impose Catholic dogma on the public is at best a return to medieval times. Abortion, however, is the taking of innocent human life and that action demands the Church speak out and endeavor to influence society.

Most non Catholics, and some Catholics, do not see the nuance here. They look at Church efforts against abortion as being the same as compelling Sunday Mass or meatless Fridays. Just another Catholic religious practice and belief that should never be imposed on non Catholics.

A question I always ask these people is are they absolutely sure the embryo is not a human life? If they are 100%certain then I cannot hope to sway them, but if they have even the slightest doubt, I turn the argument against capital punishment upon them. If there is the slightest question of guilt or responsibility for a crime then the final punishment should never be invoked. If there is the slightest possibilty of the true humanity of that embryo then ending its existence should never be an option.

21 posted on 06/08/2008 11:06:38 AM PDT by xkaydet65
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To: kellynla
Obama proudly supports partial bith abortion, and as a senator in Illinois held up a bill and would not vote for it or allow it to come to a vote, that would have outlawed live birth abortions.

What's to debate?

Barack Hussein Obama is the apex of the hate-America, domestic enemy in this country. His election as president would be the greatest coup any enemy has ever scored against this country and could easily lead to the worst, horrific disaster in our nation's history.

THE AUDACITY OF TRUTH ABOUT BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA

22 posted on 06/08/2008 11:07:01 AM PDT by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: SECURE AMERICA
The question should be how could an American vote for Obama.

Vote for a real conservative. Vote for Bob Barr, or write in Tom Tancredo or Lou Barletta.

23 posted on 06/08/2008 11:08:14 AM PDT by E. Cartman (Just say "No" to mug-whores.)
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To: All

Barack Obama voted against the Born Alive Protection Act in the Illinois Senate. He’s a radical abortionist, baby killer, and by that vote, shows he supports infanticide. What’s the question here?

As the bumper sticker says: “You Cannot be Catholic and be in Favor of Abortion”


24 posted on 06/08/2008 11:11:21 AM PDT by RooRoobird20 (Thankkfully Converted Catholic)
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To: kellynla
No Catholic can vote for ;BabyKiller Obama' since he has voted repeatedly to support abortion and partial birth abortion. He also takes and gets earmarks for Planned Parenthood.

enter the Table of Contents of the Catechism of the Catholic Church here

1: CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2271  (618 bytes )  preview document matches
1 Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion,
URL: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2271.htm
97%**********

2: CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2272  (580 bytes )  preview document matches
2 Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. "A
URL: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2272.htm
96%**********

3: CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2322  (290 bytes )  preview document matches
2 From its conception, the child has the right to life. Direct abortion, that is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, is a "criminal" practice (GS 27 § 3),
URL: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2322.htm
96%**********

4: CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2274  (554 bytes )  preview document matches
gravely opposed to the moral law when this is done with the thought of possibly inducing an abortion, depending upon the results: a diagnosis must not be the equivalent
URL: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2274.htm

25 posted on 06/08/2008 11:14:17 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: kellynla
Catholics Debate Obama Vote

US Bishops Urge Voters to Give Priority to Life [Ecumenical]

Corralling the Catholic vote: Political necessity or pipe dream?

DOUG KMIEC: Catholic Reasons for Hope in the General Election

EDITORIAL: Why This Catholic Dreads the Campaign The Catholic-Obama Problem (Pope Benedict XVI instructs Catholics about pro-abortion candidates)

Thoughts On ‘Roman Catholics For Obama’

How Obama's Catholics Will Dodge the Infanticide Question

Catholic Pro-Life Leader Feuds With Barack Obama's "Catholic" Backers

McCain and the Pope: McCain cannot win in November without the Catholic vote (Reagan re-visited?)

Catholics Cannot Vote for Pols Who Support Abortion, Except for Morally Grave Reasons: KY Bishops

26 posted on 06/08/2008 11:16:11 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation

“No Catholic can vote for ;BabyKiller Obama’ since he has voted repeatedly to support abortion and partial birth abortion”

And he also has supported post birth abortion aka opposing the born alive infants’ protection act.

He thinks babies are “punishments.”


27 posted on 06/08/2008 11:18:25 AM PDT by Scotswife
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To: E. Cartman

You really want Obama to win, don’t you?

Think about it.


28 posted on 06/08/2008 11:18:30 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Jeff Head

Barack also is big into supporting so called “Gay Marriages” and wants The Defense of Marriage Act “modified”.

Name your social, religious, or cultural issue and it is a safe bet that he is outside the mainstream.


29 posted on 06/08/2008 11:19:25 AM PDT by padre35 (Conservative in Exile/ The Obamao v Mad Jon, win the battle and lose the war..choice of evils be..)
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To: RooRoobird20
Another bumper sticker that I have seen:

Aren't you glad that your mother didn't believe in abortion"

30 posted on 06/08/2008 11:19:59 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: All

Any Catholic who votes for Obama is automatically excommunicating themselves.


31 posted on 06/08/2008 11:20:52 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Sherman Logan

“Every fertilized egg, natural miscarriage and induced abortion is an immortal soul that presumably goes to heaven, since it has had no chance to sin...”

A miscarriage is a natural event and could be for God’s own purpose and plan. An abortion is the murder of an infant. The fetus doesn’t become a “dog is a pig is a whale is a human” a la PETA, but a human being in fetal or embryonic form.

The point is that by interfering with the development of a human being, we become the judge of who lives and who dies. IUD’s prevent an embryonic human from attaching to the womb to grow. An infant is clearly human early in the pregnancy.

Do we know for a fact that the little souls are present in the embryonic stage or in the early fetal stage? God said he knows us from before our gestation. Who are we to say otherwise.

There are 45,000,000 missing children in the world who had a purpose since we believe that each person is born with a specific God-given purpose, even if it is only to sit there disabled to teach someone something necessary in God’s plan or as a victim soul.

About baptism: “God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments...”

There is baptism by blood also. Those innocents who die by such violence in the womb certainly are baptised by blood.

Try this site for a better answer than my poor attempt:
http://www.catholicculture.org/library/view.cfm?recnum=4050


32 posted on 06/08/2008 11:26:35 AM PDT by OpusatFR (School of Cynics)
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To: kellynla

Divorce and abandoning one’s crippled wife for a younger, hotter, rich girl also isn’t indicative of “good family values.”

We can’t “pick and choose” which of the teachings of the Church to follow and which to abandon...but politicians aren’t saints. We have to choose the lesser of two evils once the primaries are done.


33 posted on 06/08/2008 11:31:20 AM PDT by Chucky is a girlie man
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To: doug from upland
Barack Obama would not even vote yes to protect an aborted baby who was alive when ripped from the womb. How can any Catholic support that?

I am not Catholic but I attended a Catholic School for 12 years. I was taught that murder was wrong, and it is! However, killing like in war is often necessary, but not especially desirable. A method of last resort. The Bible tells of necessary war. No one with a speck of humanity likes to see killing. To be anti-war can be noble but can also be ignorant and self destructive.

Abortion however is outright murder and anyone who votes for a candidate who approves/supports abortion in any stage of pregnancy is in my opinion also a murderer by proxy.

34 posted on 06/08/2008 11:31:33 AM PDT by oswegodeee (Dee) ( Born in the South and raised in a G_D centered home)
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To: Arrowhead1952
Can a Catholic be for Barack Obama?

I know a bunch of em who voted for Clinton. Twice. Actually thrice, if you include Hillary's primary run.

35 posted on 06/08/2008 11:34:38 AM PDT by gitmo (From now on, ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put.)
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To: socialismisinsidious

It CERTAINLY is worth repeating!

“Catholics need to know what their Church teaches. Know your candidate. Know abortion isn’t just any issue.”


36 posted on 06/08/2008 11:38:42 AM PDT by SumProVita ("Cogito ergo sum pro vita." .....updated Descartes)
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To: OpusatFR

Something else worth repeating:

“NO.

It isn’t just Obambi’s disregard for life, it is his Marxian worldview and his choice of friends.”


37 posted on 06/08/2008 11:41:11 AM PDT by SumProVita ("Cogito ergo sum pro vita." .....updated Descartes)
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To: E. Cartman

“The question should be how could an American vote FOR Obama.

Vote for Bob Barr, or write in Tom Tancredo or Lou Barletta. This will take votes away from McCain...and GIVE the election to Obama.


38 posted on 06/08/2008 11:43:24 AM PDT by SumProVita ("Cogito ergo sum pro vita." .....updated Descartes)
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To: kellynla

catholics voting for b. HUSSEIN is no different than Jews voting for b. HUSSEIN.....this closet muzzie will sell out both groups!!!!


39 posted on 06/08/2008 11:56:42 AM PDT by nyyankeefan
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To: kellynla
Can a Catholic be for Barack Obama?

Only if that voter believes that the pope isn't Catholic.

How a practical, practicing Catholic could support ANY candidate that belongs to the party of death is difficult to understand.

40 posted on 06/08/2008 11:57:30 AM PDT by CWWren (Suppose you were an idiot and suppose you were a member of Congress....but I repeat myself.)
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To: gitmo
To a Liberal, party affiliation trumps Religious beliefs.

Some view Catholicism as a smorgasbord, choosing to believe only in what fits their lifestyle. I truly feel sorry for them.

41 posted on 06/08/2008 11:58:00 AM PDT by Rational Thought
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To: Rational Thought
Some view Catholicism as a smorgasbord, choosing to believe only in what fits their lifestyle. I truly feel sorry for them.

We've got the same problem on the Protestant side of the fence, my friend.

Come to think of it, that's where our side of the fence came from, wasn't it?

42 posted on 06/08/2008 12:01:58 PM PDT by gitmo (From now on, ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put.)
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To: glorgau

Yep. Republican campaigns this season have been infiltrated by Democrats who have no intention of seeing a Republican victorious in November.

Howard Dean’s team supported McCain going as far back as 2006 for his 2008 campaign. They became part of his website team.


43 posted on 06/08/2008 12:02:16 PM PDT by weegee (In 1988 Lenora Fulani was the 1st black woman to appear on presidential ballots in all 50 states)
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Comment #44 Removed by Moderator

To: DarthVader; Doctor Don

Well, I’ll say one thing - he is from the OLD school.


45 posted on 06/08/2008 12:08:58 PM PDT by Arrowhead1952 (Typical white person, bitter, religious, gun owner, who will "Just say No to BO in Nov.")
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To: JohnDanvers
I would love to hear from Ted Kennedy how he justifies abortion being a practicing Catholic.

Makes me think of a time years ago I heard some nut on the radio justifying his pro-abortion position and how there was no conflict with that position while being a practicing Catholic. That guy's name was Bernie Ward.

‘nuff said.

46 posted on 06/08/2008 12:19:54 PM PDT by Rational Thought
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To: JohnDanvers
Ted Kennedy is a devout Catholic who supports Obama.

Wrong.
Ted Kennedy is a devout DRUNK, a murderer and an enabler of rape. Kennedy, by his own actions and deeds excommunicated himself from the Catholic Church long ago.

And he will soon be burning in Hell for all eternity.

47 posted on 06/08/2008 12:52:21 PM PDT by Condor51 (I have guns in my nightstand because a Cop won't fit)
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To: socialismisinsidious
Know abortion isn't just any issue.

But war and the dealth penalty are?

48 posted on 06/08/2008 12:56:04 PM PDT by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: SumProVita

Those not voting for Bob Barr are giving the election to a liberal.


49 posted on 06/08/2008 12:56:42 PM PDT by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: SumProVita
This will take votes away from McCain...and GIVE the election to Obama.

Depends on one's state. My vote for Bob Barr is unlikely to have any effect, but if it does have some effects I'd say the good ones would outweigh the bad.

50 posted on 06/08/2008 1:37:36 PM PDT by supercat
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