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State science standards in election spotlight (ID/Creation Kansans need to vote!)
The Wichita Eagle ^ | August 1, 2008 | LORI YOUNT

Posted on 08/18/2008 9:35:10 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts

With five seats on the State Board of Education up for grabs this year, education advocates say how children learn about evolution hangs in the balance -- and who voters choose could affect Kansas' national reputation.

A frequent flip-flop between moderate and conservative majorities on the 10-member board has resulted in the state changing its science standards four times in the past eight years.

Conservatives have pushed for standards casting doubt on evolution, and moderates have said intelligent design does not belong in the science classroom.

In 2007, a new 6-4 moderate majority removed standards that called evolution into question.

This year, none of the three moderates whose seats are up for election are running again. Only one of the two conservative incumbents is running for re-election...

(Excerpt) Read more at kansas.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Kansas
KEYWORDS: creation; crevo; education; election; elections; evolution; intelligentdesign; kansas; schoolboard; scienceeducation; wrongforum
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To: tacticalogic

What exactly does your beloved “fundamentalist dogma” pejorative mean?
(I’m making a side bet with GodGunsetc that you won’t be able to define it.)

And you’re right, even among evangelicals, a survey was taken about core beliefs, and around 50% did not have a Christian/Biblical worldview.

Now, if you want the definition of this worldview, here it is:
“The definition requires someone to believe that absolute moral truth exists;
that the source of moral truth is the Bible;
that the Bible is accurate in all of the principles it teaches;
that eternal spiritual salvation cannot be earned;
that Jesus lived a sinless life on earth;
that every person has a responsibility to share their religious beliefs with others;
that Satan is a living force, not just a symbol of evil; and that God is the all-knowing, all-powerful maker of the universe who still rules that creation today. “

Now, if that’s “religious dogma” to you, so be it. I really don’t see any belief in this explanation that is so abhorrent as to deserve scorn and denigration.


661 posted on 08/21/2008 12:19:40 PM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: tacticalogic; MrB

LOL....yes let’s be politically correct!


662 posted on 08/21/2008 12:26:43 PM PDT by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing-----Edmund Burke)
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To: MrB

LOL! Yup...and so easy to criticize others when you have no single set of standards to gop by for others to criticize as well.


663 posted on 08/21/2008 12:26:47 PM PDT by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing-----Edmund Burke)
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To: MrB
"Fundamentalist dogma" in this context means belief in the literal account of Creation according to the Book of Genesis, and the historical record contained in the Blble being complete from the time of Creation.

Unless you're counting that among the "prinples" that the Bible teaches, there's a substantial disconnect between that and finding ToE or Old Earth theories blasphemy.

664 posted on 08/21/2008 12:27:20 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tpanther
LOL....yes let’s be politically correct!

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

665 posted on 08/21/2008 12:29:28 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic
"Fundamentalist dogma" in this context means belief in the literal account of Creation according to the Book of Genesis, and the historical record contained in the Blble being complete from the time of Creation.

OK, then you can hurl your "fundamentalist" pejorative STRAIGHT AT ME!
And I'll wear it giving glory to God.

By the way, did you cut & paste that from somewhere? Just wondering. I'll fully admit to not typing out my worldview.

666 posted on 08/21/2008 12:33:24 PM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: allmendream

Careful now, you’re starting to sound like Wiley Coyoteman.


667 posted on 08/21/2008 12:34:31 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: js1138

What you don’t realize is there’s zero justification in assereting that if people are given the freedom to present their views in science, it doesn’t mean we’ll automatically be a theocracy.

Or maybe you do and just suppress it.

Frankly, as I said earlier, we’ve already been there, and the irony of the results are that the godless were able to impose THEIR will on the rest of society such that they’ve now done exaclty, EXACTLY to everyone else what they were so afraid of...

science is godless, purposeless, random....etc.

(AGAIN, we’ll leave out the other destructive vacuousness concerning homsexuality and so forth forced on society.)


668 posted on 08/21/2008 12:37:00 PM PDT by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing-----Edmund Burke)
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To: MrB
That's all mine.

Whatever the bet was, pay up. Was it greed or pride that prompted you to make that bet in the first place?

669 posted on 08/21/2008 12:37:56 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: GodGunsGuts

Have you looked at the mitochondrial DNA studies yet?

Seems that we’re all, worldwide, descended from one woman who lived around 6500 years ago.


670 posted on 08/21/2008 12:38:44 PM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: tacticalogic

Didn’t really make the bet, but I figured he’d go along with it.

I have to say, it was my experience with people hurling “fundamentalist dogma” around as a pejorative that made me goad you with it - most can’t define it in the least without simply being anti-theistic. Congrats.


671 posted on 08/21/2008 12:40:54 PM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: allmendream; MrB

I think the oil is where the oil is rather the earth is 10000 years old or 10 ga-jillions of years old.

But what we DO know is godless liberals are busily preventing us from getting to it!

As I said godless liberals are ruining all that they touch.


672 posted on 08/21/2008 12:42:56 PM PDT by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing-----Edmund Burke)
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To: tpanther
I think the oil is where the oil is rather the earth is 10000 years old or 10 ga-jillions of years old.

Same facts, interpreted through different worldviews and base assumptions, coming to disparate conclusions. That's what this whole crevo argument is about.

673 posted on 08/21/2008 12:44:38 PM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: Ha Ha Thats Very Logical

Science shouldn’t be about winning or losing but honest exploration of ideas. Let them stand up to scrutiny without whining “but that’s not science...pretending you somehow have exclusive rights to the very definition of what science is or isn’t in the first place!

Ever even consider that?

I don’t know....it’s your side that’s whining about keeping science pure from religion while at the same time hijacking the courts to ensure it.

Apparently it’s ok to enforce science through legal action, but it must be kept pure from “religion”?

Seems you’re awfully fearful of something to me!

STILL no explanation of the hot air cult though...apparently that’s OK too...even though it’s been proven beyond all doubt there indeed IS no more debate and if you send your carbon credit money to algore he’ll just buy more jet fuel with it!

But that kind of junk science is just fine apparently!

So you’ll excuse sane people for seeing the truth that godless liberalism is vacuous everywhere ESPECIALLY sicence and that as we all have known from day one...

it’s a God anger issue, having next to nothing to do with science.


674 posted on 08/21/2008 12:49:34 PM PDT by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing-----Edmund Burke)
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To: MrB
I'm a firm believe in the Rush Limbaugh "Words mean things" philosophy.

When I say "fundamentalist dogma" I mean exactly that, according to the commonly accepted meaning of the words.

I take exception to people who try to mischaracterize "secular" as meaning "atheistic" on the same grounds.

675 posted on 08/21/2008 12:53:14 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: MrB

Maybe I’d better back off the hot air cult...in hopes that it’ll play itself out...

the algoreacle gets his religion so fired up they eventually come to the conclusions:

humans emit CO2,

CO2 is evil

the only way out is mass suicide and the algoreacle
is leading them through this darkness to utopia and setting the example for all of them.


676 posted on 08/21/2008 12:58:24 PM PDT by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing-----Edmund Burke)
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To: tacticalogic

There is some confusion around those terms.

The “Secular Humanists”, in their manifesto, declare themselves to be atheists, and Secular Humanism itself a religion.

And even “atheist” is a misnomer for most of these folks. If you don’t believe in pink unicorns, you don’t go around complaining about them and folks that do believe in them.

Most “atheists” these days are “anti-theists”. It’s not that they don’t believe in the Creator and therefore don’t care. They actively seek to remove any vestiges of faith from all aspects of life (and don’t give me the BS that their OK if you practice it in private, I don’t buy it).


677 posted on 08/21/2008 12:58:34 PM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: tpanther

It’s a more accurate description of their religion to state that only the elite should be able to emit CO2.


678 posted on 08/21/2008 12:59:57 PM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: MrB

Just because they are confused about the term, doesn’t mean I have to be.


679 posted on 08/21/2008 1:00:21 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: MrB
Careful, you're inadvertently swerving into the fact that the Christian worldview is the basis of modern scientific thinking.

I will certainly accept the possibility that a religion that emphasises submission to the will of God is at a disadvantage when it comes to science. Fortunately, that concept is foreign to Christianity.

On a more serious note, neither religion scores all the points. Scientific thinking originated with the pagan Greeks, was preserved by Muslims, and rediscovered by devout Christians like Galileo and Bruno, who were only too happy to submit to the teachings of the Church. Fortunately the early scientists always put the authority of Genesis over their empirical findings. Otherwise they might have stumbled into heresies like believing the earth moves.

680 posted on 08/21/2008 1:04:42 PM PDT by js1138
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