Posted on 09/22/2008 10:48:40 AM PDT by dalight
Yep, just like Joe Kennedy who helped found, and then looted RKO. Oh, wait a minute, Ol' Joe was the son of a Boston saloon owner, and his dad inherited the saloon from his Irish immigrant mother. There's got to be a joo in the family woodpile somewhere, even though there's no evidence for it! Keep looking, even though you'll have to make it up!
Why does this add nothing? These “Rabbis” claim to represent Judaism to the American public, yet they represent a specific sect of Judaism that has rejected most of the Oral Torah and have replaced God with progressivism.
The great Rabbi Moshe Feinstein (zt”l) said non-Orthodox Jews were never taught real Judaism. I’d have to say the same about most of these Rabbis.
This adds nothing because it takes away. It adds nothing because it divides. By your count there are only about 1 Million "real" Jews in the world. This is insanity.
Some folks are lost, for sure, but Reform Judaism is Judaism. You might not like the approach but conforming to the forms and practices of Jews from the middle ages is not the definition of Judaism.
Many Jews have attempted to splinter off and say this is the way or that is the way. Some have rejected the Oral Torah as made up and unreliable. Some believe that what was never to be written may now never be changed, the last words written so long ago.
It is both non-sense and the highest understanding to see through this record for what it is and what it is not. But, these topics are just not appropriate for this thread.
Your rant is a little silly. I don’t want to hijack the thread but if you want to discuss it in private I will send you some links to educate you on the history of communism with Lenin and the CPUSA. After all, CBS got the name “Communist Broadcasting System” about fifty years before FR ever transmitted its first electron.
The problem these rabbis seem to have is they are unable to separate their religious faith and practice from their political opinions. Being a liberal and voting democrat are articles of faith and religious acts for them.
Before you get into your hammer mode and mistake me for a nail, by “these rabbis” I mean the ones whose names are on this Obama circular. Their demoninations are not listed and I am making no assumptions.
PIMF
In terms of loyalty to the text of the Torah, observance of all the mitzvos (commandments) of the Torah, devotion to the fundamental concepts of Divine creation and Divine authorship of the Torah, I’m willing to bet there’s not one “Rabbi” on the whole list.
No real Rabbi would declare support for a shady, unprincipled, untruthful, baby-killer snake-oil candidate like Obama. Then again, these are not Jewish Rabbis, but priests of liberalism, so they are just observing its pagan ritual of fealty to the Ba’al, Mammon, Dagan, whatever the name of the DemocRat standard bearer happens to be.
Don’t ever Freep mail me, anything you have to say is best said on the forum.
Perhaps. Several of the Rabbi's I recognize on this list are not affiliated with a congregation as such. They are doing other things. However, one in particular on this list makes my jaw drop and I assure you he is not Reform Rabbi. This reminds me of Ed Koch's clueless endorsement of a week or so ago.
I would have to say, of this group probably many are knee jerking because of the mis-information that is flying around.
The real sad situation is that so many folks I know are in the category of hopeless because they are not prepared to even listen to sources of information that provide alternate views.
Ultimately you get the effects of "Group Think" where a group gets disconnected from reality and cannot accept data indicating that they are astray.
In New York this week, many got an unpleasant wake up call where the whole community was embarrassed and put at greater risk for purely political ends. Some are stunned into attempting to explain what they have seen and this is good. Many prefer to cast it aside as just the normal bickering.
The air is clogged with vitriolic comments and at some point it is hard to cut through the rancor and shouting.
Ultimately, one puts their faith in God, and acts like everything depends upon us just the same.
I listed these Rabbis because they have publicly listed themselves on the referenced website. If you know one of these people, they should be asked why they chose to do this. It is not something that benefits the community and frankly, seeing how little the Obama camp cares for Jews and Israel and the security of the United States being threatened by Iran, for you can be sure they would be happy to deliver us a city killer if they could.
Many have woken up and many more need too. We need a Democrat party, but the thing we have right now is some sort of sick freak show that has pushed the Democrats that we all know out of the way.
I think these topics are very appropriate for this thread.
I never said there were 1 million real Jews in this world. The Orthodox opinion is that non-Orthodox Jews are Jews but are just on the wrong path.
The only names I recognize on this list are Michael Lerner (known moonbat) and Capers Funnye, Michelle Obama’s cousin.
There is someone on this list who has the same name as me, except for the middle initial, but I have no idea who this person is.
I know for a fact, you are wrong. Because I know some of the people on this list and your hideous description couldn't be more wrong. All of these individuals despite this error are deserving of some modicum of respect.
I don't agree with their actions and I do believe that these actions can amount to supporting true evil and thus this is completely lamentable.
Nevertheless, it is not for you to judge them as unthinkingly and as foolishly as you have. I am sure that some on this list may almost fit your description, but many truly wonderful, devout and faithful people I know believe exactly the same way that these Rabbi's do and worse, it is very difficult to bring to them evidence of the folly of their choice because they are unable to accept the credibility of this info because it comes from sources they have come not to trust.
You cannot say these people are not what they are because they do not accept your Dogma. But this is small minded and pig headed.
Just as we must also understand that what we read and trust is subject to verification as well.
Free Republic is a wonderful source of info because of the debate, the contrary opinions that are allowed.
Accord to others the respect you desire for yourself.
I believe these Rabbis have acted in error and we are all poorer for it but this doesn't mean they are evil people unless they have specifically made this choice.
Jewishrighter has it right. There are probably a few misguided Orthodox on there but they are mostly liberal reform who have no loyalty to the Torah, only to liberal causes.
“Most of them wouldn’t know a Jewish value if it hit them in the face”
-Rav Kahane (HY”D).
Dalight: Please spare me the non-judgmental kumbaya stuff. Judaism is not a coffee klatch where everybody gets to have an opinion of what Judaism is. If you are not loyal to the Torah, you may be Jewish, but you’re not practicing Judaism. If you deem abortion on demand acceptable, you are not abiding by the Torah. If you accept homosexuality and perform weddings between homosexuals, you, and they, are violating a very serious Torah prohibition. If you completely disregard the Oral Torah and all the halachos (specific laws and regulations for performing the 613 mitzvos) you have nothing but secular humanism with a star of david.
It means nothing to say I believe in the G-d of the Torah and then, to pick and choose what you agree with. The very concept of G-d, if it is to mean anything at all, is not your buddy, your cousin, your golf companion or your fellow-traveler in liberal causes. His morality, His “politics”, His justice and His virtues are not subject to the self-determination of men.
I challenge you to prove that the people on that list that you claim to know are worthy of the title of Rabbi as that title is properly defined. In other words, not by my judgment or your judgment, but what the Torah calls Rabbi: someone who is unyieldingly loyal to Hashem and the Torah and wouldn’t sell one grain of that loyalty for all the “social justice” “community organizing” “the right to choose” “progressive taxation” or any other garbage that amounts to the latest man-made definition of G-d’s law.
I am not judging them unthinkingly or foolishly or pigheadedly. I am not judging them at all. The Torah does all the talking. If you usurp the title of “Rabbi” and lead thousands astray with false gods and anti-Torah values, you are not only not deserving the title, you are deserving much worse than anything I could say in polite company.
I love the Jewish people. But, as I’ve said about a few other choice cases, there is an especially hot place in hell for these charlatans. I will not accord them respect and I do not want their respect.
Please explain to me how they have the audacity to tear the Torah to shreds and then call themselves “Rabbis”.
The Co-Chair writes (it seems he is for Obama because of a smear campaign?):
Rabbi Steven Bob, of Congregation Etz Chaim of DuPage County, Illinois, writes:
I am one of the founders of Rabbis for Obama. I have joined our chair, Rabbi Sam Gordon, and others to gather rabbis in support of Senator Obama.
We have formed Rabbis for Obama because we are deeply concerned with the smear campaign targeting Jews, particularly elderly Jewish voters. Senator Obama has been viciously attacked by rumors, racial slurs and lies.
I recognize that within the Jewish community there exist different ideas about the war in Iraq, taxation, trade, education and the right to choose. Obama and McCain suggest differing approaches to these key issues. Some of us agree with McCain, others with Obama. On Israel, there is very little difference betweens the two senator’s positions. Both candidates have been strong supporters of Israel.
High Volume. Articles on Israel can also be found by clicking on the Topic or Keyword Israel. or WOT [War on Terror]
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This thread is pretty mild compared to this blog.
http://blogs.jta.org/politics/2008/09/09/1536/rabbis-for-obama/
Political Insider: Rabbis for Obama
With Election Day now looking perilously close, the Barack Obama presidential campaign is ramping up its Jewish outreach in critical states like Florida.
And this week a group of rabbis - now approaching 400 - pitched in to make the Illinois senator’s case.
In its initial press release Rabbis for Obama announced that it represents “every corner of the American Jewish community,” but in truth the group, which was started by two Reform rabbis from the Chicago area is weighted heavily to the Reform and Conservative side of the Jewish spectrum.
Insiders say, though, that about twelve Orthodox rabbis have signed on.
“It began with me and Rabbi Sam Gordon,” said Rabbi Steven Bob, spiritual leader of Congregation Etz Chaim in Lombard, Ill. “We independently approached the campaign with this idea in June, and they were encouraging.”
He said the group “started out with Reform rabbis, because that’s who we knew,” but that it has spread almost virally in recent days, with more than 40 signing on in the 24 hours after the group was announced.
“More importantly, we’re getting a lot of rabbis, some of them retired, who are calling and asking if they can go out and speak,” he said. “We’re seeing a lot of spontaneous efforts by rabbis to get involved.”
He said he believes this is the first official rabbinic group created to support a candidate.
The rabbis’ effort comes as the Obama campaign prepares a wave of ads targeting the Jewish community nationwide, but with a special focus on the handful of key states where Jews could make a difference - starting with Florida.
Kean University political scientist Gilbert Kahn said the Obama campaign “wants to stay ahead of the curve on Jewish issues,” and predicted the McCain camp will trot out its own list of rabbis - probably drawing more heavily from the Orthodox side.
Can a group like Rabbis for Obama sway voters?
“Among affiliated Jews, these kinds of efforts do get peoples’ attention,” Kahn said. “But non-affiliated Jews don’t put much stock in what rabbis say, anyway. And knowledgeable people will dissect the list of signers to ascertain who’s on it - and who isn’t.”
James Besser Editor The Jewish Week.
The list is full of female rabbis which is 100% bull anyway. These are dumb conformist liberal Jews. (disclaimer: I’m Jewish)
Wake up. You are throwing rocks at your own house. This is crap that just isn't acceptable. Loyalty to books is for our brothers the Muslims. We love God, and we read the book.
Some, revere the book because it is the source of so much and our connection back through the centuries to our Fathers and Mothers and the Blessing of Gods choice to reach out to humanity to bring truth and light and redemption to us all. There is no shame in this. Others see a deeper story, reach out to reason and faith and find interesting things. Reform Jews are the majority of "practicing" Jews in America. And, the Reform movement is slowly in some ways becoming the most religious of the sects in the US, as shocking as that might be.
The mixture of Liberal orthodoxy into many Reform Jews value system is real, and the people leading the movement are still very much in this mode. But, the movement itself is revitalizing and digging in. The new Reform Siddur is a great step forward, the re-emphasis on Shabbot and Saturday services is re-engaging the community.
Much is happening that is good and if these folks would just say out of politics they would be golden.
Nevertheless, there is no more ham fisted, lame excuse for misjudgment and poor reasoning than the URJ when it comes to Patriotism, relations with the Christian community, or preparation for being self reliant in times of stress. URJ has consistently made the most bone headed resolutions possible at the worst time and this isn't likely to change in the near future.
The community is the community and ultimately the majority has its say, those of us in the minority are not silenced though and perhaps one day our opinions will lead. For now, its a holding action.
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