Posted on 12/03/2008 8:14:35 AM PST by Scythian
This birth certificate issue has been going on for some time now and for those hoping for some kind of dramatic outcome you are in for another big disappointment.
First, there is always the chance that there is a valid birth certificate proving Obama to be a US citizen.
Second, enough time has passed such that the Obama cult has manufactured and installed a phony certificate that will re-route us back up to option 1 above, he will have a valid certificate. Who do you think works in these kinds of government offices? They're all democrats.
Third, no court is going to force Obama to prove himself to be a citizen, the burden is on those making the accusation that he is not a citizen. A criminal doesn't have to prove he didn't commit a crime, the state has to prove that he did.
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Flame on, and sorry for the Vanity, but this is driving me nutz, this issue gets my hopes up but then common sense dashes my hope on the rocks, and this now is a daily occurrence. You are going to find a valid certificate at the end of this road if you are lucky enough to get a judge to demand it, and that is very unlikely, whether the certificate be real or phony it won't matter, and will never be able to proven either way.
The Constitution requires the President be a 'natural born citizen', it doesn't define what a natural born citizen is. A 1790 law, for example, stated that as long as one parent was a natural born citizen, the child was considered that, no matter where he was born himself. Other laws of the time stated it followed the father not the mother. More recent laws (the ones people go back to) state the citizen parent must meet residency requirements of four years after 16th birthday to pass along citizenship. In scenario in post #2, all Congress would need to do would be pass a law clarifying citizenship definitions, heck, they could even go back to the 1790 standard. No Constitutional amendment would be required.
I can think of a few ways. The first is to find a person with standing to file suit. That would probably be another candidate.
The second is to have Congress charged with that responsibility. Congress counts the votes, so it would stand to reason, at least implicitly, that it is also the judge of the returns. It is unfortunate that the Constitution explicitly states that Congress is the judge of its own returns and fails to do so with regard to the EC, but I think a good argument could be made.
The third thought is that the electors could make their own determination.
Something just clicked for me. Something bad.
Once the dust settles, and Obama is in, is there any chance that the Democrats would seek to call a Constitutional Convention?
Much more drastic than a mere Amendment, a Convention would completely overturn everything this country stands for. I can see them doing it too -- you know, mostly to deal with the natural-born citizen thing, but ... ah ... they might tidy up a few other areas while they're at it ...
What the heck kind of argument is that?! So because he lied and cheated to get elected to our highest office, we should just suck it up and deal with it?? Maybe you should just chuck your copy of the Constitution right now before the fight gets too messy.
I guess we should all face the fact the Constitution is but a piece of paper to be shredded by our new tyrants in power.
It's far past time.....
There; fixed it for ya!
Didn’t this guy’s mother have to provide his birth certificate to go to elementary school, High School, International School.
Didn’t he have to provide his BC to go to college(a couple of times), Job applications, etc.
Whatever is provided from Hawaii must be a duplicate of what has been provided before otherwise it is inconsistent and probably a fraud.
And I disagree 100% with you, texas12joe.
This has nothing to do with Innocence and everything to do with Eligibility for the Office of President.
Don’t confuse the issues at hand.
Obama has not proven his eligibility. It is as simple as that.
No person other than Barack Hussein Obama Jr and perhaps Michelle has seen his original birth certificate (if he still has one), not even the Great State of Hawaii officials. They just say there is one stored in a vault per procedures.
And don’t give me any rigamarole about copies of certificates. It is obvious they don’t have a problem showing ‘proof’ via copies. So let’s have the real thing.
The Democratic Party led by Howard Dean fell flat on their collective asses on this one in vetting the candidates and assuming The Messiah was eligible.
I do think he will be elected by the electors and become POTUS, don’t misunderstand me.
The majority on the SCOTUS will not want to cause a revolution in this country if they toss Barack out on his ears due to lack of proper qualification.
Better that the Constitution be perverted then have an insurrection by the Left, will be their thinking.
If true, it would have been produced already instead of the forgery on his website. Next.
Second, enough time has passed such that the Obama cult has manufactured and installed a phony certificate that will re-route us back up to option 1 above, he will have a valid certificate.
You can't "manufacture" a phony birth certificate, especially one created in 1961. The original one has the Mother's and Doctor's signature. Both of them have passed away. Plus there's the embossed seal. The paper used then would be hard to find or probably doesn't exist now.
Also the original one is stored on microfiche and any duplication or forgery would be compared to that one - ASSUMING IT EXISTS.
Who do you think works in these kinds of government offices? They're all democrats.
They're likely older workers who have been in these positions for years and are not open about their party affiliation.
Third, no court is going to force Obama to prove himself to be a citizen, the burden is on those making the accusation that he is not a citizen.
Then that court is violating the Constitution. The proof is on Obama to prove that he is a natural-born citizen.
A criminal doesn't have to prove he didn't commit a crime, the state has to prove that he did.
Specious comparison - criminals usually don't run for a powerful office in which their background is normally scrutinized either.
Fame on, and sorry for the Vanity, but this is driving me nutz
Do you care about the Rule of Law and the Constitution or not??
Your scenario is very unlikely....because obama has not disclosed any information about the universities he attended which is believed to list him as a citizen of Indonesia or Kenya. If that is the case, then he’s fully aware of where he’s from. If he just releases these documents, then its all over and we’ll know. There is a simple solution and it depends on obama.
I hope you are wrong. Otherwise there is no Republic.
This is not a criminal case. We are asking someone to prove they are Constitutionally qualified for the job, because that has been called into question. They must meet the requirements. No employer ever had to prove someone was unqualified for a job/position, the burden fell on the applicant to prove they were qualified.
We the People, are the employers.
So my children, born in San Diego, California, USA, can never hope to be president due to their status as "half" citizens because their mother legally immigrated here from Ukraine and holds Ukrainian citizenship?
You do realize that this is a laughable assertion and that nobody would buy it?
Also, He has publicly affirmed the known copies at Factcheck. If they are proven to be fraudulent, then....?
I think you may be correct. But since ‘natural-born’ status is determined by the fathers nationality at the time of birth where he was born is meaningless if Obama, Sr. is really his father.
I believe that Obama does have a legitimate birth certificate proving that he was born in Hawaii, and that he is a ‘natural-born’ citizen. It’s just that it would show that Obama, Sr. is NOT his father. But someone else, i.e. Frank Davis?
This would be why he doesn’t want to show it. At the very least the birth certificate would show him to be a fraud and that his personal history, and his two “biographies”, are nothing but trash. He may have committed some crimes here too, I don’t know.
The FBI, the State Dept., and our Congresscritters all probably know this. That’s why he was allowed to be a Senator and get a passport. Howard Dean and the Clintoons also probably know. But none of them want to rain on The One’s parade down Pennsylvania Avenue.
African is not a race, so this certification proves is fake.
If mother race is caucasian, the father race should be negroide.
That could simply be a reflection of what the father wrote down on hospital forms, not knowing the US standards for race classification. I wouldn’t consider that proof it is a fake.
“Better that the Constitution be perverted then have an insurrection by the Left, will be their thinking.”
I hope that if he is found ineligible, the above statement does NOT turn out to be accurate.
How is that when this is not a criminal matter? The burden of proof, I think, is on Obama if he wants to attain the position of President. The burden is on him.
Point #2 is something I’ve been saying for a while and no one else seems to care much about. Thanks for going to the trouble of putting this thread up. Of course, you’ll get flamed, but it’s worth it if we can figure out how to deal with it.
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