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The TRUE definition of a "Natural Born Citizen."
12-16-2008 | unknown

Posted on 12/16/2008 4:19:57 PM PST by briarbey b

Emmerich de Vattel was a Swiss jurist who attained world preeminence in international law. This was primarily the result of his great foundational work, which he published in 1758. His monumental work - The Law of Nations - applied a theory of natural law to international relations. His scholarly, foundational, and systematic explanation of the Law of Nations was especially influential in the United States.

The Law of Nations was so influnntial in the United States because his principles of liberty and equality coincided with the ideals expressed in the US Declaration of Independence. In particular, his definitions in terms of Law governing nations regarding citizenship, defense of neutrality, and his rules for commerce between neutral and belligerent states were considered authoritative in the United States.

Many have said that de Vattel's Law of Nations was THE primary reference and defining book used by the framers of the US Constitution. It is really not possible to overstate the influence of de Vattel's Law of Nations as the primary reference book in the drafting of the US Constitution. Emmerich de Vattel's Law of Nations is almost beyond comparison in its value as a defining document regarding US Constitution intent and interpretation. The Law of Nations, or the Principles of Natural Law, published in 1758, is the first, and ONLY, definitive work the Framers of the US Constitution used for the 'Natural Born Citizen' phrase they placed within the Constitution. It nails what the Constitution means by the "natural born citizen" phrase of Section 1, Article 2, of the US Constitution.

It is amazing how perfectly, precisely, and explicitly what Emmerich de Vattel, wrote in paragraph 212, of book 1, chapter 19, of The Law of Nations entitled CITIZENS AND NATIONS, applies to the Obama FRAUD. Quite clearly and explicitly it defines why Barry Soetoro, AKA Barack Heussein Obama Junior, can NOT possibly be qualified to be the President of the United States. Obama MUST be disqualified from the office of President of the United States according to the US Constitution Section 1 Article 2.

That is simply the only thing the Rule of Law could conclude. All US military personal and every other American under oath to protect and defend the US Constitution will be duty bound to remove the fraudulent usurper. This situation is REGARDLESS of votes, electors, media blackouts, high profile embarrassments, state court decisions, supreme court actions or inaction, birth certificates real or forged, or any other documents - Obama can NOT LEGALLY BE The US President. Fraud and illegality has become customary under the Bush-Clinton-Bush syndicate of sudden destruction.

Emmerich de Vattel's explanation of "Natural Born Citizen" given in his 1759 benchmark work, used, and so often quoted, by the framers of the US constitution, makes the understanding simple, explicit, clear, definite, exact, precise, and strict. In the CITIZENS AND NATIONS, paragraph #212, de Vattel says: "The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. As the society can not exist and perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights. The society is supposed to desire this, in consequence of what it owes to its own preservation; and it is presumed, as a matter of course, that each citizen, on entering into society, reserves to his children the right of becoming members of it. THE COUNTRY OF THE FATHERS IS THEREFORE THAT OF THE CHILDREN."

No documentation is required. Everyone should understand and KNOW the answer to the question of what country is the country of which Obama was a natural born citizen. It is IMPOSSIBLE for Barry Obama, Barry Soetoro, or Barack Hussein Obama Junior, to be a natural born United States citizen. He can NOT POSSIBLY be a "natural born citizen" of the US because his father, Barack Hussein Obama Senior, was a Citizen of UK and/or Kenya. Barcak Hussein Obama Junior could be a natural born British Citizen or a natural born Kenyan Citizen. There is NO possible way Barack Hussein Obama Junior could be a natural born US Citizen; because, at the time of Barack Hussein Obama Junior was born, his father, Barack Hussein Obama Senior was a British and/or Kenyan Citizen. Whether Barack Hussein Obama Junior was born in Hawaii, Kenya, or the moon, is irrelevant. Birth documents, real or forged, are irrelevant. Yes, even VOTES ARE IRRELEVANT. Even Supreme Court action, or inaction, is irrelevant. It is simply FRAUD and illegal for Barack Hussein Obama Junior to be put in the office of US President by any means or reason.

This explains Obama's strange behavior in all of his documents and records being SEALED and why he has already spent over $800,000.00 saying NO DOCUMENTS WILL BE ALLOWED UNSEALED or made public.

Barack Hussein Obama Junior is at the epicenter of the greatest national disaster in the history of the United States. NOTHING which Obama would ever do in the office of US President could ever be anything other than FRAUD and ILLEGAL.

I like the way brother Ted said it - The consequences of the Supreme Court declining to address the US Constitution's "natural born citizen" clause on the morning of Monday 12/15/08 — thereafter enabling the College of Electors to transform the crisis from "law" to "political and Congressional", leading to the `inauguration' of Mr. Obama, are nothing less than catastrophic. Lawsuits by members of the military challenging his `commander in chief' status are INEVITABLE. And a military takeover to oust the "usurper" may be inevitable as well. Where is the media? This is no "tin foil hat" joke.

AN-OBAMA-NATION CAN BE NOTHING BUT FRAUDULENT AND ILLEGAL.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: bc; birthcertificate; certifigate; colb; constitutionfraud; naturalborncitizen; obama; obamatruthfile
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Comments? I know this has been hashed out on FR for a while but this explaintion is the best I have seen thus far. I won't disclose the source as he is out of country and I would be concerned for him. The rest of the world seems to know more than we do!!!
1 posted on 12/16/2008 4:19:57 PM PST by briarbey b
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To: briarbey b
He can NOT POSSIBLY be a "natural born citizen" of the US because his father, Barack Hussein Obama Senior, was a Citizen of UK and/or Kenya.

It does not appear that Roberts, Scalia, Thomas and Alito bought that argument.

2 posted on 12/16/2008 4:25:29 PM PST by trumandogz (The Democrats are driving us to Socialism at I00 MPH -The GOP is driving us to Socialism at 97.5 MPH)
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To: trumandogz

He can NOT POSSIBLY be a “natural born citizen” of the US because his father, Barack Hussein Obama Senior, was a Citizen of UK and/or Kenya....

Here is an assumption that could be wrong. Who says that BHO senior is his father? Since we cant see his original typewritten birth documents we don’t know that for a fact.

In fact if he has a different father or no father listed it is a great reason to hide the BC.


3 posted on 12/16/2008 4:31:41 PM PST by Hang'emAll
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To: briarbey b

The situation we are in right now is a direct and natural consequence of not enforcing other, more minor, laws. The first thing that comes to mind is immigration.


4 posted on 12/16/2008 4:33:32 PM PST by RobinOfKingston (Democrats, the party of evil. Republicans, the party of stupid.)
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To: Hang'emAll

Or his father could be Malcolm X or Storm Thurmond.


5 posted on 12/16/2008 4:34:37 PM PST by trumandogz (The Democrats are driving us to Socialism at I00 MPH -The GOP is driving us to Socialism at 97.5 MPH)
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To: trumandogz

That is correct because the Obama Hawaiian Certification of Live Birth that is always referred to is a computer summary document of changes for non-US born citizens, adoptions, error changes based on inputs from relatives etc.


6 posted on 12/16/2008 4:39:58 PM PST by Hang'emAll
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To: RobinOfKingston

I am greatly grieved by what I see happening to this country and I don’t know what to do!!! All we are founded on is being shredded page by page!! :(


7 posted on 12/16/2008 4:41:21 PM PST by briarbey b
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To: briarbey b

If the Arkansas? congressman is able to pass the natural born citizenship legislation, then obammy will be in trouble going forward.

It doesn’t matter who the father is....obama has a duty to represent himself accurately to voters.

Is it possible to sue the DNC? It seems they are the organization that ‘approved’ him as a candidate. If not sue michelle obama or anyone on his inner circle that knows. Make them cough up information.

Berg was right about one thing, if he was slandering or character defamation on obama then why didn’t he sue to make Berg go away?


8 posted on 12/16/2008 4:41:36 PM PST by Doug TX
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To: briarbey b

You know what else from Switzerland inspired the Framers? Private gun ownership aka The Second Amednment. The Swiss had bows going back to William Tell.


9 posted on 12/16/2008 4:42:41 PM PST by Frantzie
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To: briarbey b

“the Law of nations” has no standings in U.S. law, nor should it.

http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_citi.html

Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in those gaps. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are “citizens of the United States at birth:”

Anyone born inside the United States
Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person’s status as a citizen of the tribe
Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national
Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)
A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.
Anyone falling into these categories is considered natural-born, and is eligible to run for President or Vice President. These provisions allow the children of military families to be considered natural-born, for example.


10 posted on 12/16/2008 4:43:31 PM PST by allmendream (Wealth is EARNED not distributed.... so how could it be Redistributed?)
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To: briarbey b

I am greatly grieved by what I see happening to this country and I don’t know what to do!!! All we are founded on is being shredded page by page!! :( ...

All of us are grieved, who have a sense history, a love for this country, and understand what negative change will do to this dreamland.


11 posted on 12/16/2008 4:45:20 PM PST by Hang'emAll
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To: Frantzie

Gotta LOVE the Swiss...Hitler hit a wall with them!!
Does anyone else feel completely stupid and helpless????

I am more than willing to accept Obama as my President but only if it stays within the frame work of our constitution!!


12 posted on 12/16/2008 4:47:48 PM PST by briarbey b
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To: Doug TX

Is it possible to sue the DNC? It seems they are the organization that ‘approved’ him as a candidate. If not sue michelle obama or anyone on his inner circle that knows...

Unfortunately there is no real legally documented proof. Obama saw to that when he shut down college and state agencies who could produce the proof.


13 posted on 12/16/2008 4:48:31 PM PST by Hang'emAll
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To: allmendream

um, some here would disagree with you... just wait!

Stronger legal minds than mine will be here soon to set you straight.


14 posted on 12/16/2008 4:50:36 PM PST by jacquej
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To: briarbey b

And you can bet the founders knew it too. Over and over we see examples where they relied on the important, contemporaneous works of the day, Adam Smith, John Locke, etc.

Vattels “Law of Nations” is THE treatise on international relations and obligations.


15 posted on 12/16/2008 4:51:06 PM PST by djf (...heard about a couple livin in the USA, he said they traded in their baby for a Chevrolet...)
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To: briarbey b

I understand your words. I have asked many people I have met in the last several years, “How is America different than other nations?”

Our founding documents? Perhaps, for now, but, they are aging slowly to dust.

Our citizenry? They have just voted a catastrophe into the White Hut. Consider all the “Chicago” people he is appointing. Given the news lately, does that give anyone confidence?

Do a search on Cathy Buckle and read about how human beings clinically indistinguishable from Americans are faring.

Under the right circumstances, the horrors we see in the world around us are possible right here.

At the root of it, how do we differ from all those people killing and being killed in cesspools around the world?

Civilization is indeed a thin veneer.


16 posted on 12/16/2008 4:52:12 PM PST by RobinOfKingston (Democrats, the party of evil. Republicans, the party of stupid.)
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To: Hang'emAll

“In fact if he has a different father or no father listed it is a great reason to hide the BC.”

FWIW, this is what I wrote on another thread:

Why is O spending large sums to avoid disclosing his birth documents? What could be embarrassing about O’s birth documents if he was born in Hawaii to Ann and O Sr.?

Based on what we presently are allowed to know, if O was born in Kenya clearly he is not natural born. O’s newspaper birth announcement, which states only: “Mr. and Mrs. Barack H. Obama, 6085 Kalanianaole Hwy., son, Aug 4” indicates O was not the child of two US citizens.

What could be wrong? 1) no father named in the documents; 2) Frank Davis appears as the father’s name; 3) place of birth: Kenya; 4) any combination. Can you think of other embarrassing possibilities?

1) is unlikely given Ann and Sr. lived together before and after the birth and in light of the birth announcement published nine days later;
2) again, inconsistent with 1) above - although this would clumsily provide two (unmarried) parents who were US citizens. Further, even if Ann had relations with Davis long before any with Sr., why would anyone advocate offering the name of a man not one’s ostensible husband? There is simply no value in 1961 to the Davis name. Of course, there is value in the Davis name in 2007/8/9 and that may have been part of the self-serving motivation behind O’s sponsorship of the 2008 Senate resolution
3) this ought to be embarrassing because its inconsistent with the life story O tells; but, that would be the least of his problems.

Your thoughts?


17 posted on 12/16/2008 4:52:25 PM PST by frog in a pot (Is there a definition of "domestic enemies" as used in federal oaths, or is that just lip service?)
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To: frog in a pot

I don’t understand what is so hard about this??? We have had 43 Presidents before this...has it ever been an issue before? Why do I feel like the sh*t is about to hit the fan??? Nothing seems right or feels right!!


18 posted on 12/16/2008 4:56:25 PM PST by briarbey b
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To: briarbey b
Lawsuits by members of the military challenging his `commander in chief' status are INEVITABLE. And a military takeover to oust the "usurper" may be inevitable as well. Where is the media? This is no "tin foil hat" joke.

All of this is reasonable except this

I can not ever imagine the US Armed services Officer Core ever challenging the legitimacy of the US President as Commander In Chief.

Other than the President surrendering US Sovereignty to a foreign power it is inconceivable.

19 posted on 12/16/2008 4:59:12 PM PST by Pontiac (Your message here.)
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To: LucyT

Ping


20 posted on 12/16/2008 5:01:03 PM PST by hoosiermama (Berg is a liberal democrat. Keyes is a conservative. Obama is bringing us together already!)
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To: briarbey b
As repetituous as this post is, you still didn't make your point.

He can NOT POSSIBLY be a "natural born citizen" of the US because his father, Barack Hussein Obama Senior, was a Citizen of UK and/or Kenya.

His mother was a citizen. Nobody doubts that. Why doesn't that count?

21 posted on 12/16/2008 5:01:45 PM PST by mlo
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To: briarbey b
"I won't disclose the source as he is out of country and I would be concerned for him."

Good grief. Drama ... catastrophe ... crisis ... national disaster ... birthers.

22 posted on 12/16/2008 5:04:17 PM PST by JustaDumbBlonde (America: Home of the Free Because of the Brave)
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To: frog in a pot

Your thoughts?...

The whole thing is so convoluted and no one except Obama has the real story. So many possibilities, there is no way to accurately guess what is on the original BC.

And we should not have to guess he should have shown us the original. Since he refuses to show us any, I repeat any records, of course everyone will make their own guess.


23 posted on 12/16/2008 5:08:53 PM PST by Hang'emAll
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To: briarbey b

I wish this were true, but we all must reluctantly admit that political expediency now trumps constitutionality, and even legality.

For years politicians in border states have left the borders porous because to take any action in accordance with the constitution and the law of the land would cost them votes. Now we have a situation where the Supremes, who are supposedly immune from political considerations, will never uphold the constitution or the law because they are afraid of the race riots and/or open Islamic war that would follow a correct and proper decision.


24 posted on 12/16/2008 5:10:13 PM PST by Bertram3
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To: briarbey b

“Nothing seems right or feels right!!”

It appears history is about to repeat itself. In the 1930’s Mussolini and Stalin were regarded by American “intellects” and the MSM to be brilliant political figures who were leading their nations to wonderful things.

Of course, much of what FDR accomplished is now regarded as being ineffectual or counter-productive. His USSC-packing attempt speaks for itself.

No matter the outcome between now and Jan 20, it seems clear America will have a Marxist president in 2009. I recommend folks step up and become seriously active in politics, it is our opportunity to be patriots.

Plug; see my About page.


25 posted on 12/16/2008 5:10:55 PM PST by frog in a pot (Is there a definition of "domestic enemies" as used in federal oaths, or is that just lip service?)
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To: JustaDumbBlonde

Figures a dumb blonde would pick that small snippet of some pretty intelligent information to comment on!! ;)

EVERY American citizen should be terribly concerned about what they see happening around them. From the election to the stock market, to the economy, the corruption that is being uncovered ect. ect. ect.

OR you can stick your head in the sand and whistle a little tune,pretending none of it is happening.... when it is!!!


26 posted on 12/16/2008 5:19:40 PM PST by briarbey b
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To: frog in a pot

Thanks Frog for that draft on your about page!


27 posted on 12/16/2008 5:25:10 PM PST by briarbey b
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To: briarbey b

If you actually believe that Obama was born in Kenya, all you need to do is file a suit against U.S. Department of State to release Obama’s DS-1350.

If Obama were born in Kenya, to an American mother, he would have a DS-1350.

Why not just get that document and prove to everyone that Obama was born in Kenya?


28 posted on 12/16/2008 5:25:48 PM PST by trumandogz (The Democrats are driving us to Socialism at I00 MPH -The GOP is driving us to Socialism at 97.5 MPH)
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To: briarbey b
There is no serious argument that Vattel was a great authority for the Founders however he was a basis not a sole authority. His work, Montesquieu, Puffendorf, and Blackstone were all used for legal matters. Citizenship is not passed only through the father in this day and age and the Constitution does not use gender specific language in any case. Nor would the Founders claim that a child born to an operative in service to nation would lose any of his rights.

Allegiance is the key to being a natural born citizen not geographical proximity. Native born is not the same as Natural born but if you are native born your are natural born as well. McCain is not Native born but his Natural born because of the allegiance of his family as citizens. This is why this case was rejected and because Congress has the ultimate rule on eligibility. Unlike McCain Zero has not presented a BC to a court as far as we know and, hence, we do not know if he is Native born, Natural born or Kenyan born.

29 posted on 12/16/2008 5:28:36 PM PST by arrogantsob (Hero vs Zero)
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To: trumandogz

I don’t know where he was born. The whole point of the post was the definition of “a NATURAL born citizen.” NOT just a citizen but a NATURAL born citizen. I am that..it is no big deal for me to prove I am that. I was always taught..where you find smoke..you will find fire! I see alot of smoke!!


30 posted on 12/16/2008 5:31:15 PM PST by briarbey b
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To: allmendream

Nice reminder. Thanks for staying on the case. If Zero was born in Hawaii he is eligible. All this other crap does is distract from the real issue. No wonder the Court dropped the case.


31 posted on 12/16/2008 5:31:28 PM PST by arrogantsob (Hero vs Zero)
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To: briarbey b

Can you point to me where in the Constitution, legislation of case law, where “Natural Born Citizen” is defined?


32 posted on 12/16/2008 5:34:15 PM PST by trumandogz (The Democrats are driving us to Socialism at I00 MPH -The GOP is driving us to Socialism at 97.5 MPH)
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To: mlo

It counts but not when the mother is under 18. After becoming 18 she could have passed on citizenship to her offspring.


33 posted on 12/16/2008 5:34:33 PM PST by arrogantsob (Hero vs Zero)
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To: briarbey b

LOL ... oh, okay. Since I won’t jump on the dramatic birther bandwagon, I must not care about the economy or any other important issue of the day. Jeez, you guys are simply bizarre ... but entertaining nonetheless.


34 posted on 12/16/2008 5:34:54 PM PST by JustaDumbBlonde (America: Home of the Free Because of the Brave)
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To: arrogantsob
Unlike McCain Zero has not presented a BC to a court as far as we know and, hence, we do not know if he is Native born, Natural born or Kenyan born.

I fear as a country we have been so globally brainwashed it doesn't matter one way or another to most people. Sovereignty is no longer important.

Anyone seen my T.V. remote????

35 posted on 12/16/2008 5:35:33 PM PST by briarbey b
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To: trumandogz
I don't buy that argument, either. His place of birth is important. If he were born in Hawaii, he's a natural-born U.S. citizen. In the United States, citizenship is by location, not blood.
36 posted on 12/16/2008 5:36:13 PM PST by GAB-1955 (Kicking and Screaming into the Kingdom of Heaven! (USCG Aux))
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To: JustaDumbBlonde

Thank ya sweetie...but I’m not a guy...just ANOTHER DUMB blonde!! LOL And I have concerns and questions.


37 posted on 12/16/2008 5:38:06 PM PST by briarbey b
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To: RobinOfKingston

Under the right circumstances, the horrors we see in the world around us are possible right here.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Search Stanley Yankus, wheat farmer and read the story of a farmer who left this country for Australia in 1959 because the government, basing their actions on laws passed under FDR, levied fines on him for growing wheat to feed to his own chickens. In truth, the ink was not dry on the newly written constitution before the scoundrels started plotting how to bypass its provisions.


38 posted on 12/16/2008 5:38:17 PM PST by RipSawyer (Great Grandpa was a Confederate soldier from the cradle of secession.)
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To: Bertram3

That is false. This case has been dismissed because it is based upon a misinterpretation of law. It was dead in the water from the beginning. And the claims that the offspring of military families is not Natual born is contemptible.

It is a huge exaggeration scaring people away from this. A riot or two might occur but they can be easily put down and might allow the permanent removal of a lot of riff raff. This is not a serious consideration for the USSC. Certainly not one which would cause it to jettison the constitution.


39 posted on 12/16/2008 5:38:51 PM PST by arrogantsob (Hero vs Zero)
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To: trumandogz

See #10. A citizen at birth is a Natural born citizen.


40 posted on 12/16/2008 5:41:41 PM PST by arrogantsob (Hero vs Zero)
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To: trumandogz

“Can you point to me where in the Constitution, legislation of case law, where “Natural Born Citizen” is defined?”

While you are waiting for a response, will you let me ask two questions?

1. Will you accept the definition provided by one of the authors of the 14th amemdment?
2. Do you believe if O was born in Kenya he is qualified to be president?


41 posted on 12/16/2008 5:42:20 PM PST by frog in a pot (Is there a definition of "domestic enemies" as used in federal oaths, or is that just lip service?)
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To: briarbey b

It is in the last place you used it.


42 posted on 12/16/2008 5:42:42 PM PST by arrogantsob (Hero vs Zero)
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To: jacquej
It is not me that they need to disagree with, it is U.S. law.

There are two types of U.S. citizens. Natural born and naturalized. The natural born are those who are U.S. citizens at birth. The naturalized become U.S. citizens by legal proceedings. Obama never went through a naturalization process, so he is either a natural born citizen or an illegal immigrant.

43 posted on 12/16/2008 5:42:52 PM PST by allmendream (Wealth is EARNED not distributed.... so how could it be Redistributed?)
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To: Pontiac

It is not impossible. There are enough officers that believe in the Constitution and the rule of law. All it takes is one with guts enough to do something. As soon as Obama is delared a usurper or suspected of being one then the US military is bound to move on it. The officers that are “political” and won’t have the guts to move on it will also not have the guts to oppose those who do. It may be surprising to see those that stand up and those that go to ground.

It is what happens after that, that will be interesting


44 posted on 12/16/2008 5:44:06 PM PST by .44 Special (Táimid Buarch)
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To: mlo
"However, in 1795 the Congress passed the Naturalization Act of 1795 which removed the words "natural born" from this statement to state that such children born to citizens beyond the seas are citizens of the U.S., but are not legally to be considered "natural born citizens" of the U.S. This was done to clarify for those living at that time who was and who was not a "natural born citizen" per the framers intent at that time, since the 1790 Act had introduced confusion into that subject in regards to the use of those words in the Constitution. George Washington was also President in 1795, and thus he was aware of this change. And if he disagreed with the clarification and change in the wording in the new act in 1795, he would have vetoed the Naturalization Act of 1795."

Rep. John Bingham of Ohio, considered the father of the Fourteenth Amendment, confirms the understanding and construction the framers used in regards to birthright and jurisdiction while speaking on civil rights of citizens in the House on March 9, 1866:
” ... I find no fault with the introductory clause [S 61 Bill], which is simply declaratory of what is written in the Constitution, that every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen...”

45 posted on 12/16/2008 5:44:36 PM PST by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: GAB-1955

Native born is geographic. Natural born is allegiance based and can be based upon blood line as child of citizens no matter location of birth.


46 posted on 12/16/2008 5:45:57 PM PST by arrogantsob (Hero vs Zero)
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To: arrogantsob

N00b! Hasn’t Axcelrod changed your talking points for astroturfing yet?


47 posted on 12/16/2008 5:49:24 PM PST by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: frog in a pot

1. Unless his definition is included in the 14th Amendment, then no, his personal definition does not appear to be relevant.

2. If he was born on the moon to an American parent, then yes he is natural born.


48 posted on 12/16/2008 5:50:05 PM PST by trumandogz (The Democrats are driving us to Socialism at I00 MPH -The GOP is driving us to Socialism at 97.5 MPH)
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To: arrogantsob; mlo

That is an outright lie, and I suspect you damn wel know it! The law when Obama was supposedly born stated that his mother had to have been residing int he US for at least five years past the age of fourteen. You agitprop Obamanoid liars are getting bold!


49 posted on 12/16/2008 5:51:46 PM PST by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: MHGinTN

Why would Axelrod agree with me? He wants Zero to show his BC to a court now like Johnnie Mac did?

One would think an “Old timer” would not say such stupid things.


50 posted on 12/16/2008 5:52:38 PM PST by arrogantsob (Hero vs Zero)
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