Posted on 01/01/2009 8:27:43 PM PST by SecAmndmt
Somehow, I think brothels and landmines are waaaaaaay off the subject of todays school system. You have left the tangent on the way to the signpost up ahead... the twilight zone. When you get back to earth, please send me a note and lets talk.
You are playing with fire my friend without the fire extinguisher.
We're not... going to a fire. We're just talking about school. A school decides not to play Silent Night in a school play and so folks just snap their fingers and say "Thats it! We've had it! No more public school!"
That, my friends, is just plain nuts. I am surprised at the number of responses invoking Khomeini, land mines, fire, and all manner of dire and dangerous stuff. What are we talking about here? They didn't play Silent Night!!
Now, I'm a traditional sort, so yes, that bothers me. But do we pull out of the public school system only because of that? No. You'll have to give me something much worse than that.
"Teach your children in the Word and they shall not depart from it." (paraphrased)
You underestimate the powerful influence of Christian kids in a school system. Not just them, but the power of God, Himself, and of His Word.
Thousands of kids become believers every year because of the prayers of their Christian friends. They are invited to Church, to Sunday School, Bible class or after school outreach programs and I'm telling you that it WORKS. You don't have to be a wise old man like Paul was to reach others for Christ. Most people make up their minds early in life as to the path they will take. It is VERY important to reach people before they are consumed by the godless religions of materialism and socialism, and you can't reach them if you aren't there to become friends in the first place.
Thus, if you really care which direction this society is going, retreat is not the answer. If you, as a wise old sage, think you can reach the youth of America, please tell us how you plan to do it. I say, an army of thousands of kids who love Jesus can do the job just fine and they have been doing fine, with or without Silent Night, for many decades.
Kids are forced into a 100% godless environment, and it remains godless 100% of the time.
Not one shred of anything they learn is ever framed in, or analyzed from the Christian ( or even a “generic” God) perspective. There is no reference to scripture, or what a child's particular church leaders may have to say.
The lesson that is taught 100% of the time is that God is irrelevant, unnecessary, and nonexistent, and unimportant in the evaluation of the culture and life's conflicts and challenges. This is a POWERFUL non-neutral religious lesson that government **establishes** every government school day.
When religion simply can't be avoided in the curriculum, it is examined clinically, without passion or conviction, as if it were an amoeba under a microscope.
Ok...So..Some Christian teachers may try to sneak in the Christian perspective once in a while. The only thing these Christian teachers are doing is teaching students that Christians are SNEAKY.
EVERY government teacher who walks into a government school agrees to ***ESTABLISH** a godless worldview and to teach children how to evaluate their culture in a godless manner.
Every Christian teacher should know that to scrub the culture completely free from a God-centered perspective is a lie. The kids know this much about Christianity’s beliefs and rightly conclude that their Christian teachers are hypocrites, who will lie to kids for a paycheck.
The godless worldview of the government schools encompasses EVERY teacher and school employee who agrees to work in one. **Every** one of these people are helping children to learn to be godless. I wouldn't call that “few”.
The peer pressure that you blame is merely a **symptom** not a cause.
Is Sunday School better than no Sunday School..Yes of course! It's like deliberately making a kid sick all week long and then sending him to the doctor on Sunday for some religious antibiotic injection. Hey! That's not smart.
You are terribly wrong. You sound like you are reading Satan's talking points. I'll repeat this again... Christian kids lead other kids to Christ by the thousands and thousands every year. They invite them to church, to after school programs, they pray for them. I have seen it happen so many times. We're not going to pull out of the public school system, no matter how disappointing it is. It is the place we win the world.
Christian kids ARE the light and the salt of this world. If only we could muster the faith that some of them have!
Being a missionary is hard **serious*** work and requires **ADULT** maturity in the faith. It is far more likely that the child will be converted to secular humanism. The stats prove it. I've provided links below:
Salt & Light, The Great Commission & Who's
Responsible for Educating Your Children
http://www.exodusmandate.org/art_20050404-salt-and-light.htm
The reality of the situation is that very little Christian witnessing is ever done by children in public schools to begin with. As with everything else in life, there are of course some exceptions to the rule.
Without question, the lion's share of converting and witnessing is accomplished through the public education curriculum, peer pressure from other children — most of whom are non-Christian — and educators who implant (either subtly or obviously and conscientiously or unconscientiously) their humanistic, neo-pagan or new age doctrines within the minds and hearts of Christian children. These children, I might add, are a captive audience with little or no chance to speak up or opportunity to rebut their teachers.
The research data on the success of the public schools in indoctrinating Christian youth with humanistic or neo-pagan worldviews is overwhelming. The Nehemiah Institute’s worldview PEERS test shows that 83-percent of the children from committed Christian families in public schools adopt a secular humanist or Marxist socialist worldview. At the SBC’s 2002 annual meeting, the Southern Baptist Council on Family Life reported, among other disturbing things, that 88-percent of the children raised in evangelical homes leave church at age 18. Barna Research reports that only 9-percent of born-again teens believe in moral absolutes, and more than half believe that Jesus sinned while He was on earth. We believe the fact that 80-percent of Christian families send their children to public schools is a prime reason for this lost legacy.
We Are Losing Our Children
http://www.exodusmandate.org/art_we_are_loosing_our_children.htm
We are losing our children. Research indicates that 70%of teens who are involved in a church youth group will stop attending church within two years of their high school graduation. Think about that statement. It addresses only teenagers who attend church and participate in the youth group. What does that suggest about those teens who may attend church but do not take part in the youth group, or who do not go to church at all?
In a talk at Southwestern Seminary Josh McDowell noted that less than 1/3 of today's youth attend church. If he is right and 67% do not go to church and then we lose 70% of those who do, that means that within two years of finishing high school only 10% of young Americans will attend church.
(snip)
Everyone has a worldview, a perspective of the world around him. Bob Reccord referred to this as a”reference point.” He may not think of it in these terms. Indeed, he may not think of it consciously at all, but you cannot exist without a framework within which you place events and individuals, which determines your values, which values in turn guide your actions and reactions to events and people.
Although there are many worldviews designated by many exotic or not so exotic terms, they all boil down to just two types: Your worldview will be man-centered or God-centered.
Everyone has a religious worldview. It is either godless or God centered.
Reading, writing, and arithmetic can NOT be taught in a vacuum. It will be evaluated from and framed in a godless perspective or a God-centered one. BOTH are extremely religiously non-neutral and teach non=neutral religious attitudes and behavior.
There can **never** be a religiously neutral school because ALL schools must choose between godless or God-centered and **MUST** accept the non-neutral religious consequences and content of the decision.
This is why government must be eliminated. They are a First Amendment and freedom of conscience abomination!
We're not going anywhere.
Do you gain any income from the government schools directly or indirectly? ( Just wondering)
If you, as a wise old sage, think you can reach the youth of America, please tell us how you plan to do it.
One at a time. If you read my post carefully, you would note that I said that the choice of options depended on the family, the child, and the stage of development. In our case we used a Christian school for K-2, home schooled from 3-8, and used the state school from 9 onward. Our kids were very well grounded with a Christian world-view by 8th grade and were able, with our help, to learn to sort truth from error in high school. Both finished advanced degrees at a state University. Both maintained Christian fellowship and their testimony through out. The key is a solid foundation. Want to reach youth for Christ? Have a home bible study, AWANA, or Good News Club or the like. Get involved in the lives of your children and their friends.
wintertime wrote:
Research indicates that 70% of teens who are involved in a church youth group will stop attending church within two years of their high school graduation.
Quite reminiscent of the Campus Crusade survey at UB that my son shared with me. 80% of entering freshmen claimed to be Christian. Only 20% of seniors did. The rest were atheists or into New Age or Eastern religions.
The key is that the burden of evangelism rests on mature believers. Lambs are to be protected from wolves, not fed to them.
My kids were homeschooled until they were 13, 12, and 13. They entered college at these ages and attended community college and a state university. The two younger graduated with B.S. degrees in mathematics at the age of 18.
All are strong in the Gospel. The two younger married handsome engineers who are faithful members of our faith.
These children were able to move into a highly atheistic secular environment, find good friendships with Christian-minded people, take part in wholesome activities, and ( most of all) boldly defend their faith.
They could do this because they had well sheltered in their very early years. The roots of their faith grew strong and long in the rich soil of our Christian home.
The oldest by the way, is a highly ranked athlete. He is studying accounting. He attends night school part-time and trains full-time. He did take time off to work for the church, though, for a few years in Eastern Europe. As a result of living and working in the Baltic States my son is fluent in Russian. He will soon finish his MBA ( accounting ) at an age typical for a young person.
This young man attends services every Sunday, is a leader in the congregation, and only dates women of his faith. It seems as if his current girlfriend may lead to something serious. :-)
More and more,
the wisdom of “youth groups”,
or age/sex segregated discipleship at church
is being questioned.
“Family integrated” is the key word. And FATHERS are responsible for discipling their children, not a “youth pastor”.
So what exactly are you wanting?
A geometry teacher to say, “And then God handed down to Pythagoras the theorem that bears his name. Although it should bear God’s name, but then how could we tell it apart from all the other theorems that should bear his name”?
“and it is the exact kind of propaganda I would expect from godless DNC operatives.”
You don’t come across as being very sincere in your Christian convictions. If anything, you sound like a “godless DNC operative” yourself.
So...are you employed in public education?
bookmark.
What do I want?
I want our states to start the process of privatizing universal K-12 education. Why? Because government schools are **fundamentally** a First Amendment and freedom of conscience abomination. They never were, are not now, and never can be religiously, politically, or culturally neutral. It is **axiomatic**!
I attended Catholic schools through the 10th grade, and graduated from a Catholic university.
Math taught within a God-centered worldview would teach the students that all things are a creation of a rational God. Math is merely one example of His rationality. Not only is math rational it is **beautiful** in its elegance as well. To appreciate this rationality, beauty and elegance is to have better appreciation and thankfulness to our God.
A school that was God-centered in its worldview would taught that not only should we strive to understand and discover as much as possible about God's creations, it is our duty to do so ( reference to the parable of the talents) .
Throughout the year the teachers in a God-centered math class would take opportunities to impress on us that math does not exist in a vacuum. Math and the study of math have philosophical spiritual aspects to it as well.
To teach about science or math from within the context of a godless worldview also has profoundly religious consequences that are not neutral. The child is taught to believe that math exists in a sphere sphere separate and independent of any Supreme Being. All glory is given to man.
No, it is not religiously neutral to teach a secular humanist philosophy toward math in school and then try to apply the spiritual dimension at home. The lesson learned by the student is that religion can be discarded when he walks out the door of his house.
Also, When the discussion of God and His glorious creations are banned from the class the children are taught that their religion is somehow shameful and must be hidden away as if a bathroom activity. They are also taught that they need not to depend on God, and the teachers fail to make the connection between the beauty and elegance of math as an example of God's glory.
It is **impossible** to have a religiously neutral education. It will be either godless in its worldview or God-centered. Neither worldview is religiously neutral in what will be discussed in class, nor are the consequences neutral for the child or our nation.
By the way, my 3 homeschoolers entered college at the ages of 13, 12, and 13. All finished Calculus III by the age of 15. The two younger children had B.S. degrees in mathematics by the age of 18. The older of these two earned a masters in math at 20.
I have a B.S. in science and a doctorate in one of the most academically competitive health professions. I have earned the highest academic honors in my profession and have been invited to be on the board two state professional societies. My husband had a Ph.D. in chemistry and worked as a research team leader in one of the world's largest chemical firms until he retired. He had 6 patents for his inventions, has lectured worldwide, and published many articles in the leading publication of his field.
So...I would say, that as a family we are scientifically and mathematically aware. Everything my husband and I have done in our adult lives, both professional and personal, has been framed within the context of a God-centered worldview.
Why the sarcasm? What have I done to antagonize you?
In the parable of the talents, the master gives his servants a differing number of coins. He told them to make them grow. Two did so, they invested the coins in profitable enterprises. The third buried his talent (coin).
When the master returned he was pleased with the servants who had an increase in wealth. He punished the man who had buried his talent ( coin).
So....We are given abilities. God won't do the work for us. We must do it...so... No, God did not hand down the Pythagorean theorem from Mt Sinai. Through at lot of hard work it was discovered.
It does seem that those atheistic secularists who mock religious belief forget the origins of Western Civilization's progress in science. Our earliest scientific investigators were **deeply** religious men who had absolute faith in the rationality of God and the orderliness of His creations. They went looking for **rational** reasons for natural phenomena because the **believed** in God's rational creations.
That we even enjoy the freedom of Western Civilization is due to the Christian's belief in our equality before God. The natural outcome of this belief was a grassroots demand that all men be equal before the state's laws, and a demand that those laws be administered by honest judges and enforced by honest government officials.
Why mock religious belief, especially Judeo Christian belief, when it is this very belief that tamed the warlords of Europe,and build the institutions in which science and cultural, freedom, and prosperity could flourish?
Without Judeo Christian belief we would be living like the barbarians of Africa. We would live in constant fear of spirits, voodoo from shamans, hexes from our neighbors, and live or die at the whim and threats of warlords.
Uh, actually yes, in a sense. In a godless universe axiomatic truth is irrational: It's just sort of "there" for no apparent reason, with nothing behind it. It makes much more sense in an ordered universe with a beginning and an ultimate purpose.
...which is the default, rational worldview. Atheists act as though God were some kind of superfluous unnecessary appendage. On the contrary, God is presupposed prior to all other endeavor as the rational basis for truth. It is taking away God from the equation that is the aberration; assuming Him first as the basis for all truth is crucial to all subsequent scientific inquiry.
BTW in that sense, scientists who try to remove any religious component from their work are correct in a way: God should not be discussed not because science cannot prove Him but rather because He is presupposed a priori as a given, whether the observer chooses to acknowledge it or not (since God provides the only rational basis for the very truths that form the stepping stones of such inquiry). IOW it's not white on a black background, but black on a white one.
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