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Breaking the War Mentality (Barack Obama, circa 1983 at Columbia)
Sundial (via Columbia University Archives) ^ | 03/10/1983 | Barack Obama

Posted on 01/29/2009 7:30:27 PM PST by Ultra Sonic 007

Most students at Columbia do not have first hand knowledge of war. Military violence has been a vicarious experience, channeled into our minds through television, film, and print.

The more sensitive among us struggle to extrapolate experiences of war from our everyday experience, discussing the latest mortality statistics from Guatemala, sensitizing ourselves to our parents' wartime memories, or incorporating into our framework of reality as depicted by a Maller[?] or a Coppola. But the taste of war -- the sounds and chill, the dead bodies -- are remote and far removed. We know that wars have occurred, will occur, are occurring, but bringing such experience down into our hearts, and taking continual, tangible steps to prevent war, becomes a difficult task.

Two groups on campus, Arms Race Alternatives (ARA) and Students Against Militarism (SAM) work within these mental limits to foster awareness and practical action necessary to counter the growing threat of war. Though the emphasis of the two groups differ, they share an aversion to current government policy. These groups, visualizing the possibilities of destruction and grasping the tendencies of distorted national priorities, are throwing their weight into shifting America off the dead-end track.

"Most people my age remember well the air-raid drills in school, under the desk with our heads tucked between our legs. Older people, they remember the Cuban Missile Crisis. I think these kinds of things left an indelible mark on our souls[?], so we're more apt to be concerned," says Don Kent, assistant director of programs and student activities at Earl Hall Center. Along with the community Volunteer Service Center, ARA has been Don's primary concern, coordinating various working groups of faculty, students, and staff members, while simultaneously seeking the ever elusive funding for programs.

"When I first came here two years ago, Earl Hall had been a holding tank for five years. Paul Martin (director of Earl Hall) and I discussed our interests, and decided that ARA would be one of the programs we pushed." Initially, most of the work was done by non-student volunteers and staff. "Hot issues, particularly El Salvador, were occupying students at the time. Consequently, we cosponsored a lot of activities with community organizations like SANE (Students Against Nuclear Energy)."

With the flowering of the nuclear freeze movement, and particularly the June 12 rally in Central Park, however student participation has expanded. One wonders whether this upsurge comes[?] from young people's penchant for the latest 'happenings' or from growing awareness of the consequences of nuclear holocaust. ARA maintains a mailing list of 500 persons and Don Kent estimates that approximately half of the active members are students. Although he feels that continuity is provided by the faculty and staff members, student attendance at ARA sponsored events -- in particular a November 11 convocation on the nuclear threat -- reveals a deep reservoir of concern. "I think students on this campus like to think of themselves a sophisticated, and don't appreciate small vision. So they tend to come out more for the events; they do not want to just fold leaflets."

Mark Bigelow, a graduate intern from Union Theological Seminary who works with Don to keep ARA running smoothly, agrees. "It seems that students here are fairly aware of the nuclear problem, and it makes for an underlying frustration. We try to talk to that frustration." Consequently, the thrust of ARA is towards generating dialogue which will give people a rational handle on this controversial subject. This includes bringing speakers like Daniel Ellsberg to campus, publishing fact sheets compiled by interested faculty, and investigating the possible development of an interdisciplinary program in the Columbia curriculum dealing with peace, disarmament, and world order.

Tied in with such a thrust is the absence of what Don calls "a party line." By taking an almost apolitical approach to the problem, ARA hopes to get the university to take nuclear arms issues seriously. "People don't like having their intelligence insulted," says Don. "so we try to disseminate information and allow the individual to make his or her own decision."

Generally, the narrow focus of the Freeze movement as well as academic discussions of first versus second strike capabilities, suit the military-industrial interests, as they continue adding to their billion dollar erector sets. When Peter Tosh sings that "everybody's asking for peace, but nobody's asking for justice," one is forced to wonder whether disarmament or arms control ensues[?], severed from economic and political issues, might be another instance of focusing on the symptoms of a problem instead of the disease itself. Mark Bigelow does not think so. "We do focus primarily on catastrophic weapons. Look, we say, here's the worst part . Let's[?] work[?] on that. You're not going to get rid of the military in the near future, so let's at least work on this."

Mark Bigelow does feel that the links are there, and points to fruitful work being done by other organizations involved with disarmament. "The Freeze is one part of a whole[?] disarmament movement. The lowest common denominator, so to speak. For instance, April 10-16 is Jobs For Peace week, with a bunch of things going on around the city. Also, the New York City Council may pass a resolution in April calling for greater social as opposed to military spending. Things like this may dispel the idea that disarmament is a white issue, because how the government spends its revenue affects everyone."

The very real advantages of concentrating on a single issue is leading the National Freeze movement to challenge individual missile systems, while continuing the broader campaign. This year, Mark Bigelow sees the checking of Pershing II and Cruise missile deployment as crucial. "Because of their small size and mobility, their deployment will make possible arms control verification far more difficult, and will cut down warning time for the Soviets to less than ten minutes. That can only be a destabilizing factor[?]." Additionally, he sees the initiation by the U.S. of the Test Ban Treaty as a powerful first step towards a nuclear free world.

ARA encourages members to join buses to Washington and participate in a March 7-8 rally intended to push through the Freeze resolution which is making its second trip through the House. ARA also will ask United Campuses to Prevent Nuclear War (UCAM), an information and lobbying network based in universities, nationwide, to serve as its advisory board in the near future. Because of its autonomy from Columbia (which does not fund political organizations), UCAM could conceivably become a more active arm of disarmament campaigns on campus, thought the ARA will continue to function solely as a vehicle for information and discussion.

Also operating out of Earl Hall Center, Students Against Militarism was formed in response to the passage of registration laws in 1980. An entirely student-run organization, SAM casts a wider net than ARA, though for the purposes of effectiveness, they have tried to lock in on one issue at a time.

"At the heart of our organization is an anti-war focus," says junior Robert Kahn, one of SAM's fifteen or so active members. "From there, a lot of issues shoot forth -- nukes, racism, the draft, and South Africa. We have been better organized when taking one issue at a time, but we are always cognizant of other things going on, and collaborate frequently with other campus organizations like CISPES and REELPOLITIK."

At this time, the current major issue is the Solomon Bill, the latest legislation from Congress to obtain compliance to registration. The law requires that all male students applying for federal financial aid submit proof of registration, or else the government coffers will close. Yale, Wesleyan, and Swathmore have refused to comply, and plan to offer non-registrants other forms of financial aid. SAM hopes to press Columbia into following suit, though so far President Sovern and company seem prepared to acquiesce to the bill.

Robert believes students tacitly support non-registrants, though the majority did not comply. "Several students have come up to our tables and said that had they known of the ineffectiveness of the prosecution, they would not have registered." A measure of such underlying support is the 400 signatures on a petition protesting the Solomon Bill, which SAM collected the first four hours it appeared. Robert also points out that prior to registration, there were four separate bills circulating in the House proposing a return to the draft, but none ever got out of committees, and there have not been renewed efforts. An estimated half-million non-registrants can definitely be a powerful signal.

Prodding students into participating beyond name signing and attending events is tricky, but SAM members seem undaunted. "A lot of the problem comes not from people's ignorance of the facts, but because the news and statistics are lifeless. That's why we search for campus issues like the Solomon bill that have direct impact on the student body, and effectively link the campus to broader issues." By organizing and educating the Columbia community, such activities lay the foundation for future mobilization against the relentless, often silent spread of militarism in the country. "The time is right to tie together social and military issues," Robert continues, "and the more strident the Administration becomes, the more aware people are of their real interests."

The belief that moribund institutions, rather than the individuals, are at the root of the problem, keep SAM's energies alive. "A prerequisite for members of an organization like ours is the faith that people are fundamentally good, but you need to show them, and when you look at the work people are doing across the country, it makes you optimistic."

Perhaps the essential goodness of humanity is an arguable proposition, but by observing the SAM meeting last Thursday night, with its solid turnout and enthusiasm, one might be persuaded that the manifestations of our better instincts can at least match the bad ones. Regarding Columbia's possible compliance, one comment in particular hit upon an important point with the Solomon bill, "The thing we need to do is expose how Columbia is talking out of two sides of its mouth."

Indeed, the most pervasive malady of the collegiate system specifically, and the American experience generally, is that elaborate patterns of knowledge and theory have been disembodied from individual choices and government policy. What members of ARA and SAM try to do is infuse what they have learned about the current situation, bring the words of that formidable roster on the face of Butler Library, names like Thoreau, Jefferson, and Whitman, to bear on the twisted logic of which we are today a part. By adding their energy and effort in order to enhance the possibility of a decent world, they may help deprive us of a spectacular experience--that of war. But then, there are some things we shouldn't have to live through in order to want to avoid the experience.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 1983; 198303; agenda; ara; barackobama; bho; bho2009; bho44; cispes; columbiau; gatheringofeagles; maf; nuclearfreeze; nuclearweapons; obama; obamarecord; obamatruthfile; obamawritings; sam; wot
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To: Ultra Sonic 007

Kudos to me. I found it in the chat room at Plains Radio.
LOL


41 posted on 01/29/2009 9:14:55 PM PST by patriot08
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To: Ultra Sonic 007

...and passed it on to 2ndDivisionVet and a few others.
:)


42 posted on 01/29/2009 9:18:14 PM PST by patriot08
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To: squidly
the military-industrial interests, as they continue adding to their billion dollar erector sets.
I deduce from this that the next 4-8 years is the Chicom’s big window of opportunity to catch up with us in space/missile defense.
//////////////////////////////////////

Interesting......1 trillion dollar stimulus and not one dime for defense or war on militant Islam.

43 posted on 01/29/2009 9:21:50 PM PST by photodawg (It's not about how hard you can hit. It's about how hard you can get hit ......Rocky Balboa)
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To: Ultra Sonic 007
Doesn't sound much different. "I WILL NOT WEAPONIZE SPACE," indeed. This man's ideas have been ingrained for years; he's been involved with anti-nuclear and anti-military groupthink for a long time...

From "45 Communist Goals":
Congressional Record--Appendix, pp. A34-A35
January 10, 1963:

1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.

2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.

3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.

'Goals' 4-45 can be found here or at many other sites through a web search for "45 goals":
http://www.uhuh.com/nwo/communism/comgoals.htm
________________________________________________________

Obama Pledges Cuts in Missile Defense, Space, and Nuclear Weapons Programs

February 29, 2008 :: News
MissileThreat.com

A video has surfaced of Presidential candidate Senator Barack Obama talking on his plans for strategic issues such as nuclear weapons and missile defense.

The full text from the video, as released, reads as follows:

Thanks so much for the Caucus4Priorities, for the great work you've been doing. As president, I will end misguided defense policies and stand with Caucus4Priorities in fighting special interests in Washington.

First, I'll stop spending $9 billion a month in Iraq. I'm the only major candidate who opposed this war from the beginning. And as president I will end it.[i.e. not win it]

Second, I will cut tens of billions of dollars in wasteful spending.

I will cut investments in unproven missile defense systems.

I will not weaponize space.

I will slow our development of future combat systems.

And I will institute an independent "Defense Priorities Board" to ensure that the Quadrennial Defense Review is not used to justify unnecessary spending.

Third, I will set a goal of a world without nuclear weapons. To seek that goal, I will not develop new nuclear weapons; I will seek a global ban on the production of fissile material; and I will negotiate with Russia to take our ICBMs off hair-trigger alert, and to achieve deep cuts in our nuclear arsenals.

You know where I stand. I've fought for open, ethical and accountable government my entire public life. I don't switch positions or make promises that can't be kept. I don't posture on defense policy and I don't take money from federal lobbyists for powerful defense contractors. As president, my sole priority for defense spending will be protecting the American people. Thanks so much.

Article: Obama Pledges Cuts in Missile Defense, Space, and Nuclear Weapons Programs:
http://missilethreat.com/archives/id.7086/detail.asp

"MissileThreat.com is a project of The Claremont Institute devoted to understanding and promoting the requirements for the strategic defense of the United States."
________________________________________________________

New Pentagon Report: China's Growing Military Space Power
By Leonard David
Special Correspondent, SPACE.com
March 6, 2008

GOLDEN, Colorado — A just-released Pentagon report spotlights a growing U.S. military concern that China is developing a multi- dimensional program to limit or prevent the use of space-based assets by its potential adversaries during times of crisis or conflict.

Furthermore, last year's successful test by China of a direct-ascent, anti-satellite (ASAT) weapon to destroy its own defunct weather satellite, the report adds, underscores that country's expansion from the land, air, and sea dimensions of the traditional battlefield into the space and cyber-space domains.

Although China's commercial space program has utility for non- military research, that capability demonstrates space launch and control know-how that have direct military application. Even the Chang'e 1 — the Chinese lunar probe now circling the Moon — is flagged in the report as showcasing China's ability "to conduct complicated space maneuvers — a capability which has broad implications for military counterspace operations."

To read the entire publication [29.67MB/pdf], go to (U.S. Dept of Defense) :
http://www.defenselink.mil/pubs/pdfs/China_Military_Report_08.pdf
________________________________________________________

From the Sino-Russian Joint Statement of April 23, 1997:
"The two sides [China and Russia] shall, in the spirit of partnership, strive to promote the multipolarization of the world and the establishment of a new international order."
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/HI29Ag01.html
________________________________________________________

Russia, China flex muscles in joint war games
Reuters: Aug 17, 2007

CHEBARKUL, Russia (Reuters) - Russia and China staged their biggest joint exercises on Friday but denied this show of military prowess could lead to the formation of a counterweight to NATO.

"Today's exercises are another step towards strengthening the relations between our countries, a step towards strengthening international peace and security, and first and foremost, the security of our peoples," Putin said.

Fighter jets swooped overhead, commandos jumped from helicopters on to rooftops and the boom of artillery shells shook the firing range in Russia's Ural mountains as two of the largest armies in the world were put through their paces.

The exercises take place against a backdrop of mounting rivalry between the West, and Russia and China for influence over Central Asia, a strategic region that has huge oil, gas and mineral resources.

Russia's growing assertiveness is also causing jitters in the West. Putin announced at the firing range that Russia was resuming Soviet-era sorties by its strategic bomber aircraft near NATO airspace.
http://in.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idINIndia-29030120070817?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0

44 posted on 01/29/2009 9:21:54 PM PST by ETL (Smoking gun evidence on ALL the ObamaRat-commie connections at my newly revised FR Home/About page)
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To: Ultra Sonic 007; LucyT
thanks for posting!

Well well well, we finally get something from the Columbia days.

45 posted on 01/29/2009 9:23:25 PM PST by Fred Nerks (fair dinkum!)
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To: Fred Nerks; Calpernia; null and void; pissant; george76; PhilDragoo; Candor7; MeekOneGOP; ...

Thanks, Fred Nerks.

Hmmm... why are we getting news about the Columbia days?

What’s happening in D.C. while we’re distracted with this little factoid?


46 posted on 01/29/2009 9:30:41 PM PST by LucyT
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To: arderkrag

Norman Mailer.


47 posted on 01/29/2009 9:31:10 PM PST by Piranha
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To: Ultra Sonic 007

“Prodding students into participating beyond name signing and attending events is tricky,”

“beyond...?” Interesting!


48 posted on 01/29/2009 9:31:41 PM PST by Balata ("Truth surfaces when FReeRepublic is engaged."-Balata)
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To: Ultra Sonic 007

Alumni Corner

Barack Obama ’83, My Columbia College Roommate
By Phil Boerner ’84

I was Barack Obama ’83’s roommate at Columbia College in fall 1981. I met him in 1979, when we were freshmen at Occidental College (Oxy) in Los Angeles and our dorm rooms were directly opposite each other.

I came to college as a middle-class guy from Bethesda, Md., where I’d lived from fifth grade through high school. At Oxy, we attended some of the same social events and had late-night philosophical discussions related to our college reading or to current affairs. We attended rallies on campus where we were urged to “draft beer, not people,” and discussed the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, apartheid in South Africa, the hostages in Iran and the Contras in Latin America. The crowd we hung out with included men, women, blacks, whites, Hispanics and international students. Barack listened carefully to all points of view and he was funny, smart, thoughtful and well-liked. It was easy to sit down with him and have a fun conversation.

We both transferred from Oxy to Columbia in fall 1981. Barack had found an apartment on West 109th Street, between Amsterdam and Columbus, and suggested that I room with him. Our sublet was a third-story walk-up in a so-so neighborhood; the unit next door was burned out and vacant. The doorbell didn’t work; to be let in when I first arrived I had to yell up to Barack from the street. It was a railroad apartment: From the kitchen, you walked into Barack’s room, then my room, and lastly the living room. We didn’t have a television or computers. In that apartment we hosted a number of visitors, mostly friends from Oxy who stayed overnight when they were passing through town. Barack was very generous to these visitors. As a host and roommate, he sometimes did the shopping and cooked the chicken curry.

Barack has said that he spent a lot of time in the library while at Columbia and one reason for this was that our apartment had irregular heat, and we didn’t enjoy hanging out there once the weather got cold. The radiators in our apartment were either stone cold, or, less often, blasted out such intense heat that we had to open the windows and let in freezing air just to cool things down. When the heat wasn’t on, we sometimes sat with sleeping bags or blankets wrapped around ourselves and read our school books. We also didn’t have regular hot water and sometimes used the Columbia gym for showers.

I remember often eating breakfast with Barack at Tom’s Restaurant on Broadway. Occasionally we went to The West End for beers. We enjoyed exploring museums such as the Guggenheim, the Met and the American Museum of Natural History, and browsing in bookstores such as the Strand and the Barnes & Noble opposite Columbia. We both liked taking long walks down Broadway on a Sunday afternoon, and listening to the silence of Central Park after a big snow. I also remember jogging the loop around Central Park with Barack.

One weekend I invited Barack to meet my grandparents, Elizabeth and William Lytton Payne ’46 GSAS, at their summer place in the Catskills, which we called “the farm.” I took Barack to meet some neighbors on the mountain; everyone seemed to like him pretty well, whether they were die-hard supporters of Ronald Reagan or extreme liberals. While at the farm, Barack joined the routines there, which typically included a few morning hours doing chores, such as clearing brush and sawing firewood.

After that first semester, we had to move. Barack tried to find an apartment for both of us, but was only able to find a studio for himself. I was able to house-sit in Brooklyn Heights. Barack and other friends came and visited me there a few times; we typically watched pro basketball or football on TV, or went out for dinner at a Chinese restaurant. He was amused by my beginning banjo playing (I’m much better today!). Hanging out, we could get pretty emotional about sports, food and injustice. I remember one time when we were out walking he took the time to ask a homeless guy how he was doing, so even then he was concerned about others.

Through different living arrangements in Astoria, Queens; Bay Ridge, Brooklyn; and all over Manhattan, we stayed in touch and remained friends for the rest of our college years. He got to know my girlfriend from Arkansas, who is now my wife. Since I last saw him in 1985, we have exchanged a few letters and photos. He left for Chicago, and I eventually settled in Sacramento.

Barack wasn’t thinking about becoming President when he was in college; he wanted to be a writer. Barack is a good man — some might even call him a saint for tolerating my beginning banjo playing. Based on my six years of knowing him in college and the years immediately after, I can vouch that Barack is a man of character, and I trust him to do the right things when he is President.

Phil Boerner ’84 was born in Washington, D.C., and lives with his wife and two children in Sacramento, Calif. He is communications and public relations manager at the California Veterinary Medical Association.


Pictures at link
http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:s8rbJbok474J:www.college.columbia.edu/cct/jan_feb09/alumni_corner+obama+after+columbia&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=26&gl=us


49 posted on 01/29/2009 9:35:55 PM PST by Protect the Bill of Rights
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To: LucyT

Is someone doing a slow leak? Hillary? Bill?

Richardson stabbed the Clintons in the back and Hillary shanked Richardson. Maybe it was Bill.

The Clintons must have given some docs to a reporter on Richardson’s business deals.

You do not cross the Clintons.

Who does Bill hate a lot more than say Rush?


50 posted on 01/29/2009 9:36:10 PM PST by Frantzie
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To: Ultra Sonic 007

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/recollections-of-obamas-ex-roommate/

I posted this and the above on another thread....
Needs to be here as well.

Full court Columbia press


51 posted on 01/29/2009 9:38:01 PM PST by Protect the Bill of Rights
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To: SERKIT

“Looks like it was written by a high school sophomore.”

More like Jr High.


52 posted on 01/29/2009 9:42:07 PM PST by 2CAVTrooper (Man is not free unless government is limited.)
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To: LucyT
What’s happening in D.C. while we’re distracted with this little factoid?

Berg's little interloper must have them really nervous....No judge is going to accept an Internet document as proof. It would set a precedence that would bring chaos to the entire judicial branch of government.......

OTOH he may just wants to send it up to the SCOTUS to be overturned or that they can take their pound of flesh.

53 posted on 01/29/2009 9:44:28 PM PST by hoosiermama (Berg is a liberal democrat. Keyes is a conservative. Obama is bringing us together already!)
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To: LucyT; patriot08

Did you notice the little blurp about registering for the draft and his careful avoidance of mentioning whether he did or didn’t? I will have to reread this tomorrow, my mind and body aren’t co-operating tonight. Thanks for the ping and KUDOS to patriot 08!


54 posted on 01/29/2009 9:45:30 PM PST by Chief Engineer
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To: Ultra Sonic 007
This is exactly the problem we have with a non-military person in the White House.

Anyone who thinks gathering in a library to hear like minds pontificate that “war bad”, “peace good”, can help to bring an end to war and a lasting peace is - delusional. But he's so full of himself he can't see how wrong he is.

Barry's my age. He's lived a sheltered life and “endured” many years of college and no real job. What he knows of war he's absorbed from folks who have also never served.

He's never witnessed massive anti-Pershing demonstrations first hand. Experienced the Red Army Faction blowing up US Army POVs by placing a bomb under the seat of the unsuspecting person. He's probably never heard of the LaBelle disco bombing. He has no idea of what it means to live in a city surrounded by hundreds of thousands of Soviet troops ready to turn it into the largest concentration camp in history at a moment's notice. Nor has he ever had to worry about the Soviets finally saying Solidarity is an enemy of the people and, oh, by the way, we won't conduct combat operations in Poland for as long as we did in Hungary or Czechoslovakia.

Barry's daughters have never had to ride to their elementary school with MPs onboard their school bus with combat load, and a jeep following with a mounted Ma Deuce. Once they get there they see a school with flatbed trailers surrounding the entire school and loaded to the school roof with full sandbags. This was to guard against terrorists. The same type of terrorists that some of Barry's cohorts and kool-aid drinkers pal around with.

He's never deployed to the East German border, stood watch over nuclear facilities in -30F weather or picked sand out of every crack in his body for a year.

In short, it's impossible for Barry to “Break” the War Mentality without experiencing the preparations for war or war itself. To think otherwise is - delusional. The media, and Barry himself, have played-up his world travels and oh so marvelous cosmopolitan he is for those world travels. Problem is Barry saw what they wanted him to see. Not what he could have seen from our point of view had he served in the military.

Our country has a long, proud history of a civilian executive. A civilian executive who has served in America's military. Barry is the first break in that chain. And reading this paper of his in that light gives me the willies.

55 posted on 01/29/2009 9:46:08 PM PST by VeniVidiVici (Close Gitmo now! Send them to Alcatraz!)
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To: eclecticEel

Articulated and well-educated! Ha ha ha!

Well-educated as in he spent lots of time at institutions of higher [leftist] learning, that’s all.


56 posted on 01/29/2009 9:46:09 PM PST by little jeremiah (Leave illusion, come to the truth. Leave the darkness, come to the light.)
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To: LucyT

I wonder who wrote this...


57 posted on 01/29/2009 9:55:13 PM PST by 1COUNTER-MORTER-68 (THROWING ANOTHER BULLET-RIDDLED TV IN THE PILE OUT BACK~~~~~)
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To: LucyT

What’s happening in D.C. while we’re distracted with this little factoid?

We need to stay focused on DC. I noticed that there may be some diversionary tactics being used here by DU’ers


58 posted on 01/29/2009 10:10:53 PM PST by mojitojoe (THAT SILLY LITTLE WIMP IS NOT MY PRESIDENT)
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To: mojitojoe

0bama’s lawyers moved to dismiss one of the cases (no idea which court) and used the reason that 0 had already posted his birth certificate on the internet.

So he’s owning the forgery legally. That’s pretty interesting.


59 posted on 01/29/2009 10:14:16 PM PST by little jeremiah (Leave illusion, come to the truth. Leave the darkness, come to the light.)
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To: VeniVidiVici

Or have an alert called at 2am.

As far as military service, there have been many who never wore the uniform to include:

John Adams
John Quincy Adams
Martin Van Buren
Grover Cleveland
William Howard Taft
Woodrow Wilson
Warren G. Harding
Calvin Coolidge
Herbert Hoover
Franklin D. Roosevelt
Bill Clinton
Barack Obama


60 posted on 01/29/2009 10:17:33 PM PST by 2CAVTrooper (Man is not free unless government is limited.)
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