Everything old is new again when government
officials regulate things they don't understand.
Anti-gun politicians in the Big Apple overlooked these
two beauties.
Posted on 01/30/2009 6:45:36 PM PST by neverdem
For years, I stayed away from this topic because there was a nice, under-the-radar loophole in the law and I felt no need to rock the boat. It's still there, but it's not under the radar any more. The law allows for the red-tape-free purchase and possession of "antique firearms" and replicas thereof. That means guns in obsolete calibers for which ammunition is no longer manufactured. It also means muzzleloading hunting rifles. Most importantly, it includes cap-and-ball revolvers of the sort used around the middle of the 19th century. As the New York State Police Website puts it:
The Penal Law definition of antique firearm is generally applied to muzzle loading black powder firearms, but also applies to pistols or revolvers "that use fixed cartridges which are no longer available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade".
Muzzle loading pistols or revolvers do not have to be registered on a pistol permit if the owner never intends to fire them.
If they are possessed in a loaded condition or are simply possessed simultaneously with the components necessary to make them fire, they must first be registered on a valid pistol permit.
Note: Should a manufacturer begin to produce ammunition for a pistol or revolver for which ammunition had not been available previously, that weapon no longer meets the criteria of an antique weapon and is required to be registered. A pistol or revolver, regardless of age, when possessed with the ammunition necessary to make it discharge, is required to be registered.
This rare (in New York) oasis of relative freedom in a sea of overregulation survives in the Empire State largely because nobody ever had much reason to take notice. Criminals don't need to mess with loose gunpowder, percussion caps, lead bullets and grease. They just go to the black market and buy whatever modern weapons suit their fancy. So, frankly, does most everybody else. The usual estimate of illegal firearms in New York City is two million, as jaded urbanites apply the same attitude to gun control that has seen them through Prohibition, vice laws, the war on drugs and the rest of the regulatory state. But for people squeamish about illicit transactions and just looking for some insurance to keep in the nightstand, a cap-and-ball revolver might well do the job.
And there are some very nice working reproductions of Civil War-era guns available at very reasonable prices.
The opportunity for self defense provided by the muzzleloading exception to New York's byzantine gun laws has long been a matter of quiet understanding. The gun shop in which I purchased my (modern) pistol and started the legal paperwork for a permit so I could take the thing home had a small display case facing the main case of modern weapons. The smaller case contained modern reproductions of Colt, Remington and similar revolvers of the sort that won the West before anybody thought of wrapping the stuff that goes "bang" in a copper or brass tube to make it easier to handle. These revolvers take longer to load than their descendants, but once loaded, they function pretty much like today's guns.
While would-be gun buyers (inevitably) fumed over the hassle and expense of getting a modern weapon within the rules set by New York City (where the powerful are given special consideration for permits -- or bodyguards), these blast-from-the-past alternatives sat there, offering another option. Nobody said anything, but ... There can't be that many Civil War buffs in Manhattan.
I didn't buy my cap-and-ball guns at the store, because the frustration set in while I was at home. Besides, I wasn't going to pay New York prices if I could help it. So I mail-ordered what I wanted with no fuss.
Of course, New York's legal exception applied only so long as the guns were kept as paperweights. Bring ammo into the picture and the "loophole" goes away. But once you have the iron at home, what do the authorities know? And with my strictly under-the-table "assault weapon" purchase, I wasn't pretending to be law-abiding. In fact, I was on a sock-it-to-the-state tear.
So I bought percussion caps and bullets too. Gunpowder was another matter. It wasn't hard to find, but it was a tad more regulated than lead balls and I didn't want to raise any red flags. I actually improvised my own at first (it worked fine) before buying the real stuff outside the city.
And there I was, well-heeled with little fuss.
Oddly enough, I chuckled over the matter with a few Europeans about a year after the fact, and a Hungarian told me that the law was almost identical back in his home country. He said he knew plenty of people who didn't want to bother with the authorities or the black market, but who were packing like it was 1859. (A quick check reveals that Hungarian law still parallels New York antique-gun regulations.)
Unfortunately, last year, one of the twisted control freaks who infest elected offices in and around New York City got his knickers in a bunch over the antique-gun exception. In one of those statistical rolls of the dice, a New York State trooper was wounded with a black-powder rifle around the same time some guy was found with a muzzleloader on a college campus. That's two incidents in a state of 20 million people. In terms of things worth worrying about, that should have ranked up there with sewer gators coming up through your toilet and biting you on the ass. But this is New York. Assemblyman Michael N. Gianaris decided that antique guns are a threat to the public safety.
Ironically, Gianaris touts his Greek heritage in the first line of his official biography. The Greek government admits that the country's not-so-submissive population of fewer than 11 million people own 1.5 million illegal guns. You gotta wonder how Gianaris would fare in the old country.
So far, Gianaris's attempt to disarm the 19th century (and its admirers) hasn't gone anywhere. That's probably because of the loud screams raised by New York's many museums and historical reenactors, who fear felony charges for any mistakes they may make while licensing and registering their extensive collections of wall-hangers.
Welcome to our world.
But Gianaris and some breathless press coverage about "deadly" black-powder guns have let the cat out of the bag. New Yorkers may or may not continue to be able to arm themselves with the finest defense technology available to Ulysses S. Grant, but they're no longer operating under the radar.
Besides, New Yorkers have better options. Until the law changes for the (less restrictive) better, one way or another, that sizeable minority of New York City residents who want to exercise the right to self defense can take advantage of one of the better black markets in the country. Really, anything is offered for sale -- much of it at pretty good prices. Most people looking for a gun in that city -- and unwilling to subject themselves to the intrusion, expense and arbitrary permit withdrawals of the legal process -- do exactly that.
In all things, liberty finds a way around the law.
But it's still interesting to reflect on the weird holes in the law left by yet another effort to impose draconian restrictions on disfavored activities and objects by government officials who know what they don't like -- even if they don't understand it in the least. Overregulation always produces defiance and illicit markets. But sometimes it also produces oddities, like new life for antique technology.
Love that shotgun and 9 extra shots thang !
So if you feel like your Constitutional rights have been infringed upon, by politics, then it is ok to own guns in difference to current laws?
I vote YES.
Stop or I’ll shoot! Click. Click. Bang! Click. Bang!
Muzzle loading pistols or revolvers do not have to be registered on a pistol permit if the owner never intends to fire them.
Why bother? Instead of all the contortions and jumping through hoops, it's best for anyone repelled by leftists in general and gun-grabbers in particular to not live in states like NY, CA, MA, MD etc.
I say this as a born-in-Brooklyn native NYer who was born and raised there.
Over this past summer, I was under a lot of internal and external pressure to move back to New York. One of the major reasons why I didn't was because in order to do so, I would have had to sell or give away my guns. Another major reason why I didn't is because I didn't wish to have my life governed by northeastern leftists.
People can say what they like about Florida, but if you're a gun owner, it's a good state to live in. If it stopped being so, I would pack up and leave in a "NY" minute.
Gun owners who live in hostile states should simply abandon them instead of playing these stupid games.
You’ll wound or kill and intruder or, if you miss, make him soil himself from the bang. I love my black powder guns.
The politicians in New York City have forgotten who works for who. As long as there was a goobermint employee with a gun, I would sure keep mine. An unconstitutional law is not worthy of being obeyed, actually it may be traiterous and is at least cowardly to do so.
That’s what I did. Goodbye Cali, hello FL.
You can debate the income tax’s constitutionality, you can’t debate the 2nd Amd, unless you are a zombie clone or govt jackboot licker.
While at Christian Brothers college in 1965-1966 quite a few people of color decided to violate some rather restrictive laws because they were wrong,I supported them as I support any who violate immoral and Unconstitutional laws.Tyranny wraps itself up in immoral laws....Immoral to whom you may ask....Those who believe in the Constitution,the actual Law of the land.
A black powder revolver will work, although most of them are not very accurate or power at greater distances. But be sure to get a very good one—one that will withstand higher pressures (re. max grains of black powder), and don’t load the chamber that will be under the hammer. Be wary of ricochets and bounce-backs (e.g., from hard target surfaces). And they are very messy and a little more time-consuming to clean (hot water, then oil, in my experience). And never try to do the quick draw thing with live ammo in the cylinder.
So, you have out of state driver licenses and fake residency proof?
Or do you frequently admit to committing felonies on public forums?
My BS flag is way up.
I couldn’t agree more. I happen to apply that thinking to every single law. The government hates me. All levels it seems. Anytime they want anything from me, I frustrate and confuse their purpose with as much vigor and diatribe as possible. I think I am duty bound to explain to them just how messed up they are every single time.
I am a Free man.
Ok then.....
Part of law is the enforcement process.
The 2nd Amendment states a right to keep and bear.
The 14th Amendment forbids a state from infringing on citizen’s rights.
So when a state legislature violates the constitution, should be be good sheep? Or should we violate the illegal local law and take our chance to be the test case that will validate the right in the Constitution?
Invalid laws have no standing.
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