Old firearms given new life by restrictive New York gun control laws

examiner.com ^ | January 19, 2009 | J.D. Tuccille

[neverdem]

Everything old is new again when government
officials regulate things they don't understand.
Anti-gun politicians in the Big Apple overlooked these
two beauties.

I've written before about how, when I was a New York City resident, I tired of the endless, intrusive and insulting process of applying for a pistol permit. Disgusted, I purchased a banned "assault weapon" on the black market. What I haven't written is that I also bought two pistols without a permit or registration -- perfectly legally. It was a purchase that would probably have never taken place without the perverse incentives inevitably created by restrictive laws.

For years, I stayed away from this topic because there was a nice, under-the-radar loophole in the law and I felt no need to rock the boat. It's still there, but it's not under the radar any more. The law allows for the red-tape-free purchase and possession of "antique firearms" and replicas thereof. That means guns in obsolete calibers for which ammunition is no longer manufactured. It also means muzzleloading hunting rifles. Most importantly, it includes cap-and-ball revolvers of the sort used around the middle of the 19th century. As the New York State Police Website puts it:

The Penal Law definition of antique firearm is generally applied to muzzle loading black powder firearms, but also applies to pistols or revolvers "that use fixed cartridges which are no longer available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade".

Muzzle loading pistols or revolvers do not have to be registered on a pistol permit if the owner never intends to fire them.

If they are possessed in a loaded condition or are simply possessed simultaneously with the components necessary to make them fire, they must first be registered on a valid pistol permit.

Note: Should a manufacturer begin to produce ammunition for a pistol or revolver for which ammunition had not been available previously, that weapon no longer meets the criteria of an antique weapon and is required to be registered. A pistol or revolver, regardless of age, when possessed with the ammunition necessary to make it discharge, is required to be registered.

This rare (in New York) oasis of relative freedom in a sea of overregulation survives in the Empire State largely because nobody ever had much reason to take notice. Criminals don't need to mess with loose gunpowder, percussion caps, lead bullets and grease. They just go to the black market and buy whatever modern weapons suit their fancy. So, frankly, does most everybody else. The usual estimate of illegal firearms in New York City is two million, as jaded urbanites apply the same attitude to gun control that has seen them through Prohibition, vice laws, the war on drugs and the rest of the regulatory state. But for people squeamish about illicit transactions and just looking for some insurance to keep in the nightstand, a cap-and-ball revolver might well do the job.

And there are some very nice working reproductions of Civil War-era guns available at very reasonable prices.

The opportunity for self defense provided by the muzzleloading exception to New York's byzantine gun laws has long been a matter of quiet understanding. The gun shop in which I purchased my (modern) pistol and started the legal paperwork for a permit so I could take the thing home had a small display case facing the main case of modern weapons. The smaller case contained modern reproductions of Colt, Remington and similar revolvers of the sort that won the West before anybody thought of wrapping the stuff that goes "bang" in a copper or brass tube to make it easier to handle. These revolvers take longer to load than their descendants, but once loaded, they function pretty much like today's guns.

While would-be gun buyers (inevitably) fumed over the hassle and expense of getting a modern weapon within the rules set by New York City (where the powerful are given special consideration for permits -- or bodyguards), these blast-from-the-past alternatives sat there, offering another option. Nobody said anything, but ... There can't be that many Civil War buffs in Manhattan.

I didn't buy my cap-and-ball guns at the store, because the frustration set in while I was at home. Besides, I wasn't going to pay New York prices if I could help it. So I mail-ordered what I wanted with no fuss.

Of course, New York's legal exception applied only so long as the guns were kept as paperweights. Bring ammo into the picture and the "loophole" goes away. But once you have the iron at home, what do the authorities know? And with my strictly under-the-table "assault weapon" purchase, I wasn't pretending to be law-abiding. In fact, I was on a sock-it-to-the-state tear.

So I bought percussion caps and bullets too. Gunpowder was another matter. It wasn't hard to find, but it was a tad more regulated than lead balls and I didn't want to raise any red flags. I actually improvised my own at first (it worked fine) before buying the real stuff outside the city.

And there I was, well-heeled with little fuss.

Oddly enough, I chuckled over the matter with a few Europeans about a year after the fact, and a Hungarian told me that the law was almost identical back in his home country. He said he knew plenty of people who didn't want to bother with the authorities or the black market, but who were packing like it was 1859. (A quick check reveals that Hungarian law still parallels New York antique-gun regulations.)

Unfortunately, last year, one of the twisted control freaks who infest elected offices in and around New York City got his knickers in a bunch over the antique-gun exception. In one of those statistical rolls of the dice, a New York State trooper was wounded with a black-powder rifle around the same time some guy was found with a muzzleloader on a college campus. That's two incidents in a state of 20 million people. In terms of things worth worrying about, that should have ranked up there with sewer gators coming up through your toilet and biting you on the ass. But this is New York. Assemblyman Michael N. Gianaris decided that antique guns are a threat to the public safety.

Ironically, Gianaris touts his Greek heritage in the first line of his official biography. The Greek government admits that the country's not-so-submissive population of fewer than 11 million people own 1.5 million illegal guns. You gotta wonder how Gianaris would fare in the old country.

So far, Gianaris's attempt to disarm the 19th century (and its admirers) hasn't gone anywhere. That's probably because of the loud screams raised by New York's many museums and historical reenactors, who fear felony charges for any mistakes they may make while licensing and registering their extensive collections of wall-hangers.

Welcome to our world.

But Gianaris and some breathless press coverage about "deadly" black-powder guns have let the cat out of the bag. New Yorkers may or may not continue to be able to arm themselves with the finest defense technology available to Ulysses S. Grant, but they're no longer operating under the radar.

Besides, New Yorkers have better options. Until the law changes for the (less restrictive) better, one way or another, that sizeable minority of New York City residents who want to exercise the right to self defense can take advantage of one of the better black markets in the country. Really, anything is offered for sale -- much of it at pretty good prices. Most people looking for a gun in that city -- and unwilling to subject themselves to the intrusion, expense and arbitrary permit withdrawals of the legal process -- do exactly that.

In all things, liberty finds a way around the law.

But it's still interesting to reflect on the weird holes in the law left by yet another effort to impose draconian restrictions on disfavored activities and objects by government officials who know what they don't like -- even if they don't understand it in the least. Overregulation always produces defiance and illicit markets. But sometimes it also produces oddities, like new life for antique technology.

[wastedyears]

From Call of Duty: World At War.

[Squantos]

That wasn’t my pic of the snubby and such..... but my BB curve may talk to the .22.......:o)

[El Gato]

my friend bought a copy of a Remington .36 Navy. I'm not sure if the pic above is the same, but it looked similar.

That does look like the Remington Navy revolver, here's another one, an original.

[Armedanddangerous]

It has two different trigger pulls. First , if you jack a round in the chamber, the piece has a very crisp “safe action” style single action trigger pull of about 4.5 lbs. Much like the glock trigger.

HOWEVER..if youre carrying it in a holster, you can press the decocker and the gun goes into double action only mode. It then has a triggerr pull much like what you would have with a 5-8lb DA pull of an M-9 beretta.

When you fire the piece, it goes back into safe action mode. Then you can either “decock” it or carry it in safe action. When Im packing it in a holster, I carry it in safe, but when I pick up the gun and just stik it in my waistband, I dont feel safe carrying it in anything but double action.

It’s worth the trouble though. If I were not so invested in a bucket of glock magazines, Id get rid of them and go to the P99 full time. I like it that much,

[Squantos]

I have a P22 “target” version of your P99. I was wondering if your trigger for first DA shot was just as ........bad...:o)

Ergonomics of the P99 are way above excellent IMO. But for utility every day carry CHL rig I prefer a glock aka combat tupperware. I carry mine chamber empty just stuffed inside my waistband with full mag and spare mag in a pocket on left side of carpenter pants, The ruler pocket on carpenter jeans is perfect for a spare mag pouch.

[donmeaker]

Stopping power is a very complex subject. Life is biological, and the human target is complex. Hitting a nerve and missing a nerve is a tiny difference. The important bits are toward the back, and penetration is necessary to get there. Hollowpoints can over expand, and then fail to penetrate. They can also be filled with the target’s clothes, or arms if they have to penetrate them before striking the body. Since your target may be moving, you don’t have perfect precision in where the bullet may hit. So, with ability to hit your target, and deep penetration, a bigger bullet gives you an edge, as would the ability to get multiple hits.

I like the .45 Colt. I have one myself, as well as a .44/.45 cap and ball, and a .45ACP revolver (moon clips).
.45Colt rounds often have simple “cowboy” rounds which are not most effective. They are underpowered (700 fps) and at slow velocity even a modern hollowpoint will have trouble expanding. That is why for social occasions I depand on my .45 ACP revolver.

[Armedanddangerous]

I have two main problems with my walther.

1. the magazines are $48 each. One could use the smith and wesson SW-99 mags as they interchange, but I cant find any for sale since the election with the exception of for the 40 caliber model. I shoot 9mm.

2. There arent many suitable holsters for it offered for sale. I ended up having to order a milt sparks model which should be delivered in April.

Anyone want to make me very happy? find me some $35 SW99 15 round mags for sale.

[OKSooner]

What’s the gizmo that says “Fenix” on it?

[Squantos]

For the past year I know of folks that have done nothing more than buy high capacity mags for handguns and EBR’s with every intent of selling em later for 100$ plus prices each.

If I wuz you I’d snag what I can find NOW for less than 50$ each.......:o)

I know it ain’t a happy deal but time is against ya now.

[aragorn]

Not to get off subject, but how do you like that Paco Kelly Accurizer tool? I just ran across the ad for that recently, and was thinking about buying one.

[Squantos]

If ya like turning junk ammo into good stuff easy snag one. Turns HP’s into really nice rounds. My stingers feed perfect in Ruger Mk-1, Walther P22, and Beretta 70/71S autos. Without the PK tool stingers and other otc ammo shy of CCI mini mags or expensive ely ammo will jam.

Reason I like the little S&W 317 wheel guns in snubby or 3 inch versions. You can feed crap through those and they will go bang ....CB caps are quieter that air pistol’s. Weird mexican longs, shorts, and exotic BS will work in my wheel guns as are. The PK tool I have is long rifle only. Wally World milk carton junk is turned into good quality stuff with the PK tool pretty much for auto or wheelgun.

I keep one on the bench and my spare in the safe I like em so much !

Stay safe !

[Armedanddangerous]

A fenix is a very small, fairly powerful flashlight.

[Armedanddangerous]

Im working on getting glock mags, AR 15 and AK mags as well as ones for the smith and wesson military and police, which I may get if Daddy Obama gives me a cut on my taxes.

[Armedanddangerous]

that 317 has a horrible trigger pull, does it not?

[Squantos]

Initially it did on DA but after a few thousand rounds and some panther piss of mine applied in proper proportions I can put meat in the pot all day with it in SA for survival and all 8 rounds center mass fast if need be !

It is so light it is toy like in feel and appearance. That is what makes it great. No issues at all for me.

Hope ya get what ya need on that magazine list.

Good luck, stay safe !