Everything old is new again when government
officials regulate things they don't understand.
Anti-gun politicians in the Big Apple overlooked these
two beauties.
Posted on 01/30/2009 6:45:36 PM PST by neverdem
For years, I stayed away from this topic because there was a nice, under-the-radar loophole in the law and I felt no need to rock the boat. It's still there, but it's not under the radar any more. The law allows for the red-tape-free purchase and possession of "antique firearms" and replicas thereof. That means guns in obsolete calibers for which ammunition is no longer manufactured. It also means muzzleloading hunting rifles. Most importantly, it includes cap-and-ball revolvers of the sort used around the middle of the 19th century. As the New York State Police Website puts it:
The Penal Law definition of antique firearm is generally applied to muzzle loading black powder firearms, but also applies to pistols or revolvers "that use fixed cartridges which are no longer available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade".
Muzzle loading pistols or revolvers do not have to be registered on a pistol permit if the owner never intends to fire them.
If they are possessed in a loaded condition or are simply possessed simultaneously with the components necessary to make them fire, they must first be registered on a valid pistol permit.
Note: Should a manufacturer begin to produce ammunition for a pistol or revolver for which ammunition had not been available previously, that weapon no longer meets the criteria of an antique weapon and is required to be registered. A pistol or revolver, regardless of age, when possessed with the ammunition necessary to make it discharge, is required to be registered.
This rare (in New York) oasis of relative freedom in a sea of overregulation survives in the Empire State largely because nobody ever had much reason to take notice. Criminals don't need to mess with loose gunpowder, percussion caps, lead bullets and grease. They just go to the black market and buy whatever modern weapons suit their fancy. So, frankly, does most everybody else. The usual estimate of illegal firearms in New York City is two million, as jaded urbanites apply the same attitude to gun control that has seen them through Prohibition, vice laws, the war on drugs and the rest of the regulatory state. But for people squeamish about illicit transactions and just looking for some insurance to keep in the nightstand, a cap-and-ball revolver might well do the job.
And there are some very nice working reproductions of Civil War-era guns available at very reasonable prices.
The opportunity for self defense provided by the muzzleloading exception to New York's byzantine gun laws has long been a matter of quiet understanding. The gun shop in which I purchased my (modern) pistol and started the legal paperwork for a permit so I could take the thing home had a small display case facing the main case of modern weapons. The smaller case contained modern reproductions of Colt, Remington and similar revolvers of the sort that won the West before anybody thought of wrapping the stuff that goes "bang" in a copper or brass tube to make it easier to handle. These revolvers take longer to load than their descendants, but once loaded, they function pretty much like today's guns.
While would-be gun buyers (inevitably) fumed over the hassle and expense of getting a modern weapon within the rules set by New York City (where the powerful are given special consideration for permits -- or bodyguards), these blast-from-the-past alternatives sat there, offering another option. Nobody said anything, but ... There can't be that many Civil War buffs in Manhattan.
I didn't buy my cap-and-ball guns at the store, because the frustration set in while I was at home. Besides, I wasn't going to pay New York prices if I could help it. So I mail-ordered what I wanted with no fuss.
Of course, New York's legal exception applied only so long as the guns were kept as paperweights. Bring ammo into the picture and the "loophole" goes away. But once you have the iron at home, what do the authorities know? And with my strictly under-the-table "assault weapon" purchase, I wasn't pretending to be law-abiding. In fact, I was on a sock-it-to-the-state tear.
So I bought percussion caps and bullets too. Gunpowder was another matter. It wasn't hard to find, but it was a tad more regulated than lead balls and I didn't want to raise any red flags. I actually improvised my own at first (it worked fine) before buying the real stuff outside the city.
And there I was, well-heeled with little fuss.
Oddly enough, I chuckled over the matter with a few Europeans about a year after the fact, and a Hungarian told me that the law was almost identical back in his home country. He said he knew plenty of people who didn't want to bother with the authorities or the black market, but who were packing like it was 1859. (A quick check reveals that Hungarian law still parallels New York antique-gun regulations.)
Unfortunately, last year, one of the twisted control freaks who infest elected offices in and around New York City got his knickers in a bunch over the antique-gun exception. In one of those statistical rolls of the dice, a New York State trooper was wounded with a black-powder rifle around the same time some guy was found with a muzzleloader on a college campus. That's two incidents in a state of 20 million people. In terms of things worth worrying about, that should have ranked up there with sewer gators coming up through your toilet and biting you on the ass. But this is New York. Assemblyman Michael N. Gianaris decided that antique guns are a threat to the public safety.
Ironically, Gianaris touts his Greek heritage in the first line of his official biography. The Greek government admits that the country's not-so-submissive population of fewer than 11 million people own 1.5 million illegal guns. You gotta wonder how Gianaris would fare in the old country.
So far, Gianaris's attempt to disarm the 19th century (and its admirers) hasn't gone anywhere. That's probably because of the loud screams raised by New York's many museums and historical reenactors, who fear felony charges for any mistakes they may make while licensing and registering their extensive collections of wall-hangers.
Welcome to our world.
But Gianaris and some breathless press coverage about "deadly" black-powder guns have let the cat out of the bag. New Yorkers may or may not continue to be able to arm themselves with the finest defense technology available to Ulysses S. Grant, but they're no longer operating under the radar.
Besides, New Yorkers have better options. Until the law changes for the (less restrictive) better, one way or another, that sizeable minority of New York City residents who want to exercise the right to self defense can take advantage of one of the better black markets in the country. Really, anything is offered for sale -- much of it at pretty good prices. Most people looking for a gun in that city -- and unwilling to subject themselves to the intrusion, expense and arbitrary permit withdrawals of the legal process -- do exactly that.
In all things, liberty finds a way around the law.
But it's still interesting to reflect on the weird holes in the law left by yet another effort to impose draconian restrictions on disfavored activities and objects by government officials who know what they don't like -- even if they don't understand it in the least. Overregulation always produces defiance and illicit markets. But sometimes it also produces oddities, like new life for antique technology.
Sorry. I was a prosecutor in New York for 26 years. While you don’t need a pistol permit to buy a black powder handgun in New York, nor a purchase order; the weapon is considered a revolver subject to the permit requirement if you load it and make it capable to shoot.
If you do load it,and, say, take it to the range without being licensed, you would be subject to arrest and prosecution. And the weapon would be seized.
I have seen em in glass cases yet never handled or fired one....... I understand the drill of last round it becomes a club used with saber or knife.
Beautiful handgun for sure......
cant beat a centennial backed up by a strider folder..the folder costs almost as much as the gun though.
I actually pack a Terzoula ACTF folder, a Glock 31 w/ 1 spare mag , a S&W 317 .22 snub in a custom ankle holster that a rigger made me long ago that holds an old style 50 round box of .22 Stingers in a small pouch. Stingers that I modified with a Paco Kelly Accurizer tool. As well a Surefire E2D light, keys and wallet. Gives me 30 rounds of 357SIG and 58 x .22 stingers. I hate to run out of ammo.
Light easy to pack around for day to day carry here in Texas.
Today it was my walther P99, two extra mags, my cheapo G2 surefire and my spyderco Yojimbo.
How is trigger pull on that P99 ?
I know: fat chance-- one government hand washes the other.
Bang!
Black powder pistols can be effective if you are well practiced and have good editing.
I agree. Actually, some of the most accurate guns in the world are muzzleloaders. The bullets are pre-fitted to the rifling as they are pushed down the barrel. The original Colt percussion revolvers featured gain twist rifling, where at the cylinder end the rifling is almost straight and gains a tighter twist as you move toward the muzzle, which allowed acceleration of the bullets rotation without deforming the bullet which would allow more gas leakage around the bullet.
The Hatcher Relative Stopping Power rating of the 1873 black powder Colt .45 single action (in the 7.5" bbl) is higher than that of the .44 Magnum S&W in the 8 3/8" bbl length. Part of the reason is that the .45 Long Colt used in the SA stops in the target body, delivering 100% of the foot pounds of energy it's carrying to the target. The Magnum rounds often penetrate the body and pass through, carrying much of their energy along with them, Rounds that penetrate your intended targets through and through, can often hit innocent bystanders, inflicting collateral damage that is, shall we say, undesirable.
I had a replica 1847 Colt Walker muzzle loader, 9" bbl, huge chambers that could hold a large bullet and large powder charge. Fun to shoot. Would not want to be on the receiving end... especially of a bullet lubed with some of the grease used in 1847....
The original LeMat I owned was ugly as sin and awkward to shoot but fun. I much preferred the ergonomically designed grips of the Colts (and the Remingtons)... they rock back naturally in the hand and then drop the gun back to re-acquire the target.
Speaking of the Remington Revolvers. I once had the original Patent Model for the Remington 1875 revolver in my possession for about four months. This picture is not the gun I had, it's a replica.
The one I had was finished in the white, with no maker's name, serial numbers, inspectors marks, or drawer numbers. It was beautifully finished... and had an old string tag tied to the trigger guard from the U.S. Patent Office with the patent number on it. it was part of an eclectic collection i brokered for a grocery store owner from Winnemucca, Nevada. Most of his collection of 200 guns was junk, but there were about six guns that were really desirable collectors items...
Only to carry it concealed.
Black powder pistols can be effective if you are well practiced and have good editing.
Those are Uberti 1847 "Walker" Colt Replicas...
Both the originals and the replicas of the Walkers had a distinct problem with the loading levers. The spring catch to hold the lever in place was located near the lever fulcrum... one shot and the gun action froze because the loading lever slipped aa weakened spring catch and dropped down into the loading position and the loading plunger was pushed into the bottom chamber, preventing the revolver from revolving the next loaded chamber into firing position. The Dragoons that followed the Walkers had a much better engineered loading lever catch. This original Walker has been modified by the addition of a Dragoon like loading lever catch:
You know,when a drunken English Bob shot him in a saloon as told by Little Bill?
Were they sure the zombies were Nazis? In that spoof movie about Michael Moore, the zombies were all from the ACLU. (Dennis Hopper as the shotgun-slinging judge was totally outrageous -- I loved it!)
Nice piece ..... no, but you do need a National Guard armory.
So, what kind of leather do you pack that in?
The law of unintended consequences...
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