NRA Appeals Seventh Circuit Ruling to the U.S. Supreme Court

NRA-ILA ^ | 06/04/09 | unk

[Mojave]

Can the state pass any laws it see fit to, regardless of rights enumerated under the US Constitution?

I'm trying to figure out what you mean by "rights enumerated." Is the right to a Grand Jury indictment an enumerated right?

[VRWCmember]

touche.

[Double Tap]

Well, now we know you are an idiot.

[Mojave]

You do know that the Legislation for the Bill of Rights was first purposed September 25, 1789 don't you?

You do know that the language (and even the number) of the Amendments repeatedly changed over the next two years from the "Legislation" first "purposed" in 1789?

You keep the spirit of tpaine alive.

[Mojave]

However, what has that to do with what the NRA is doing?

If they want to amend the Constitution, there's a nonjudicial process for that.

[ohioman]

Answer the question. Is the 2nd Amendment a collective or an individual right?

[Mojave]

Well, now we know you are an idiot.

1791 is after 1789. Ask someone to show you the math.

[VRWCmember]

Our Bill of Rights was not ratified, or even written, in 1789.

Bill of Rights, Congress of the United States, begun and held at the City of New York, on Wednesday the fourth of March, one thousand seven hundred and eighty nine.

The conventions of a number of the States having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added: ...

Why am I surprised that you didn't know that.

[jwalsh07]

The Constitutional Convention was limited to delegates appointed by the states. You knew that, right?

You understand that the United States of America predates the Constitutional Convention, right? You also understand that the Articles of Confederation allowed for states representation to Congress right? Presumably you also understand the delegates are representatives of the people from those 13 states, right?

Nah, you don't understand jacksh6t imho.

[Mojave]

Is the 2nd Amendment a collective or an individual right?

The 2nd Amendment isn't a right at all, it's a restriction on federal powers over a right.

You do know that the Bill of Rights protects rights? It's not the source for them.

[Pistolshot]

So the Seventh Circuit said the 2nd Amendment doesn't apply to the states and local governments.

The Heller decision defined the right of ALL Americans to self defense under the 2nd. Nordyke v. Alameda County decision by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, basically incorporated the 2nd Amendment.

So what is missing from this conversation? The NRA is doing exactly what it's supposed to do, defend the right of free Americans to possess the tools for self defense.

The various courts have already defined it as an individual right, not a collective one. And the Ninth's decision says there cannot be selective laws from one place to another.

So why is this debate on this thread going any further?

[Double Tap]

You don’t know what an enumerated right is? And yes, the right to a Grand Jury indictment, which would happen at a STATE level, is an enumerated right under the Fifth Amendment.

[Mojave]

Bill of Rights, Congress of the United States, begun and held

You thought they took two years for an up or down vote on Amendments they didn't rewrite?

[Double Tap]

The ratification process began in 1789, so again you are wrong.

[ohioman]

I see you still will not answer my question and only attempt to dance around it with your psuedo-intellectual BS. I think you would be better appreciated over at DU.

[Mojave]

You understand that the United States of America predates the Constitutional Convention, right?

Not our Republic. That was a Confederation of states.

Yes, states predated the United States of America. The states were the source of the powers delegated to the federal government by the Constitution.

[Mojave]

And yes, the right to a Grand Jury indictment, which would happen at a STATE level, is an enumerated right under the Fifth Amendment.

It doesn't apply to the states. Your argument, such as it was, just collapsed.

[HammerT]

Is the 2nd Amendment a collective or an individual right? The 2nd Amendment isn't a right at all, it's a restriction on federal powers over a right. You do know that the Bill of Rights protects rights? It's not the source for them.

Note that the response doesn't actually answer the question, it dodges it. It's usually very indicative when someone refuses to answer a direct question that will take them off the Talking points they're working with.

[jwalsh07]

Which mens that the dlegates to those states were represntatives of “the people”. Now tell me again why “we the people” would ratify a doucment that allows State governments to disarm them, forbid them from practicing their religion or, for that matter, declaring all men above the age of 30 to be murdered by the state for nor reaon or any reason?

[Dead Corpse]

Removing the clause "those religiously scrupulous" is hardly changing the nature of the beast.

You lose again...

You keep the spirit of tpaine alive.

You say that like it is a bad thing.