Pagan Propaganda: The Other Attack on Christmas

American Thinker ^ | December 24, 2009 | Selwyn Duke

[brent13a]

That is exactly what this bigot is stating.

[BearArms]

Then he’s a child. Grow up, Selwyn.

[Wpin]

“I don’t believe oldenuff2no was exactly equating Christianity to Nazism. All oldenuff2no was trying to imply was that there are certain denominations in christianity that chose to be so intolerant of other forms of christianity that they get labeled as anti-christian (i.e. heretics).
Perhaps he used the wrong analogy....it doesn’t invalidate his points though.”

Can you think of any Christian denominations that can in any way be equivocated with Nazi’s? I think after reading that I saw no point in his post other than to slur Christianity. What other point did he make that seemed valid? Christianity is a very well respected religion in most of the world, that is a fact. It is shunned only by those who are ignorant or evil, that is also a fact. Sometimes we see where people blame Christianity for something that a few individuals do...but that is not just nor appropriate intellectually. It is simply a slur. God gave us all free will, this free will encompasses each whether they are Christian or not. Temptation is an evil enticer, so to speak, that plays into our free will and is a part of each individuals life, again...whether they be Christian or not. Those terms would more adequately provide some argument.

[Vanders9]

I dont think he is assuming that. In fact he quite clearly states that:,p> The bottom line here, as it is with all birthday celebrations, is not when Jesus was born. It is that He was born.

The point is not that you are being "anti-christian" or "anti-american" by not celebrating Christmas - you are free to not do that if you wish. The point is that some of those who hate Christianity USE these kinds of arguments in order to undermine the Judeo-Christian nature of our society. as in:

...the Christmasphobes do not propose to celebrate the Nativity on what they consider a more historically authentic day. They simply refuse to celebrate it at all.

These people don't care about whether it is right or wrong to assign December 25th as a special day to celebrate the birth of Jesus, or even whether it is right to do such a thing at all. They just want to spoil the event for those of us who do wish to celebrate it. As in all things, it is the motives that matter.

[olezip]

"There you have it!" say the critics. "And the kicker is that Jesus wasn't even born on the 25th! Besides, Christmas is unbiblical; there is no command in Scripture to celebrate the Lord's birth. Christmas is just an amalgamation of pagan feasts and the Nativity story in a nicely wrapped, brightly-colored, bow-adorned box."

What a moronic argument!

What I believe is that 2000 years ago the time for the Incarnation was at hand. The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us.

Whether the date selected to celebrate the incarnation was once used for a pagan holiday is NOT relevant. What is relevant is that Jesus entered the world in poverty to teach the lesson of detachment from earthly things.

The angel announced to the shepherds: "Today there is born to you in the town of David a Savior, Who is Christ the Lord."

An angelic chorus sang: "Glory to God in the highest, and peace to His people on earth."

Legend says that shepherds would imitate the song of the angels who announced the birth of Jesus so many years ago. They would call to one another, "Gloria in Excelsis!" Glory to God in the highest!

Merry Christmas!

[hershey]

A recent, puerile National Geographic special on Jesus portrayed him as a forerunner of Che Guevara, and one Baptist black man among the experts said His teachings were akin to the Olympics black power salute. They also dragged in comparisons to Mithras. He wasn’t born in a stable...if born at all, it was probably in a cave. And on and on. Really. It doesn’t matter. He was born, crucified, and died for our sins. He arose to Heaven and sits at the right Hand of God who forgives all our sins.

[Tomato lover]

“As for Christian beliefs and trends in general, I was instructed to avoid controversy with it and just get along.”

Is that as in ‘go along’ to get along????

My husband and I do not celebrate the ‘popular’ Miracle on 34th Street type Holiday. We do not send cards or exchange gifts. Every day we Praise God through the Grace of our Lord Jesus - the only way to the Father.

Store clerks bubbling, Merry Christmas, sound pathetic. I can see the anticipation of gifts in their eyes. We (the population in general) have been infected with the Greed of Christmas. Training the youngsters to expect gifts galore. Just because they look cute running down the hall towards the tree does not mean it produces ‘good fruit.’ It produces a life time of memories that cause us all to expect gifts at Christmas, even if we do not get them.

I would prefer we train the young to look for Jesus return and fill them with a longing to be with Him.

[SamuraiScot]

Christmas in colonial America. Of course they celebrated Christmas...it was just more of a solemn religious celebration than today.

Depends where in the colonies you were. The Puritans disapproved of Christmas. The Massachusetts Bay Colony made celebration of it illegal. This was the case, not because the existing tradition of Christmas was solemn and without feasting, but because it was full of feasting. The Puritans disapproved of feasting itself, because they considered it Catholic. The chronicles of the colony describe the arrest of someone caught feasting on Christmas, denouncing him as a "Christmas man."

(Similarly, 20 years later in England, Parliament, which was Puritan, forbade the celebration of Christmas, requiring shops to stay open as usual, and sending out constables to arrest anyone cooking a pudding. You can't make this up.)

But the rest of the country was not settled by English Puritans. Other parts of Europe, such as Germany, Holland, France, and Spain, did not have the Puritan compulsion, and celebrated the Nativity with joy, feasting, and drink, bringing their traditions with them. I have recordings of American music celebrating Christmas, and while much of it is reverent, much is quite jolly, I assure you. This should be no surprise. When a baby is born, people party. Merry Christmas.

[Petronski]

A good post. What’s Xenia’s new id?

What's the point?

The author is probably one of those Trinitarians anyway.

[Petronski]

But who you going to argue with? Jesus or the Catholic Church?

False dichotomy.

Jesus Christ Himself is the leader of the Catholic Church.

[Uri’el-2012]

And what of whether or not Christmas is biblical? Even if a person subscribes to Sola Scriptura, he should know that tradition precedes the Gospels (not written until 65-80 A.D.). He should know that the present canon of the New Testament wasn't compiled until the year 397 A.D. -- after the institution of Christmas. He should know that there is nothing in Scripture forbidding tradition. There are, however, passages indicating the legitimacy of tradition, such as 2 Thessalonians 2:15, which states, "So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter [emphasis mine]."

The Canon was complete very much prior to 397CE.

When Paul was talking about Traditions,
since Paul was a Jewish Pharisee,
What kind of Tradition was Paul talking about ?

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

[Petronski]

...Paul was a Jewish Pharisee...

Well, Saul certainly was.

But St. Paul is Christian, a father of the Catholic Church.

[Uri’el-2012]

U-2012>...Paul was a Jewish Pharisee...

Well, Saul certainly was.

But St. Paul is Christian, a father of the Catholic Church.

Yah'shua ( Jesus ) was and is a Jewish Rabbi.
When He returns he will rule the world
as a Jewish King from Jerusalem.

Those non-jews who follow Him are grafted in
as it it is spelled out in Paul to the Romans.

"christianity" was hi jacked by Pagans at Nicea in 325CE.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

[Petronski]

Those who believe Jesus is Christ are Christians.

St. Paul, as a father of the Catholic Church, was and is a Christian.

"christianity" was hi jacked by Pagans at Nicea in 325CE.

That's a keeper. There is no legitimate Christianity? Nowhere?

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

****He wasn’t born in a stable...if born at all, it was probably in a cave. And on and on. ****

I’ve seen dry caves used for animal shelter. A stable could easily be in just such a cave. Some people are just looking for loopholes to enforce their own doubt.

[Uri’el-2012]

h>He wasn’t born in a stable...if born at all, it was probably in a cave. And on and on.

I’ve seen dry caves used for animal shelter. A stable could easily be in just such a cave. Some people are just looking for loopholes to enforce their own doubt.

Both a stable or a cave would fulfill the requirements for the
celebration of the YHvH commanded Feast of Tabernacles or Booths.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

[Uri’el-2012]

This may be news to you:

Yah'shua is a Jew so is Peter, and all of the apostles including Paul.

During the millienumium, Yah'shua will reign the world from
the throne of King David from Jerusalem.

Non Jews need to be grafted-in the "called out ones" of YHvH.

Or do you reject the clear teaching of Paul in Romans ?

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

****”christianity” was hi jacked by Pagans at Nicea in 325CE.

That’s a keeper. There is no legitimate Christianity? Nowhere? ****

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain who claims Nicean doctrines were NOT kept two hundred years before Nicea even though they were!

[Uri’el-2012]

While I support the celebration of Christmas, a clear reading of the Holy Word of G-d would lead to another date.

A date commanded by YHvH with clear Biblical meaning and understanding.

Chanukah is a great time for followers of the Jewish Messiah to celebrate.
The eight day Feast of Chanukah echoes of the eight days of the Feast of Tabernacles
Chanukah was most likely when the "light of the world"
(John 8:12) entered human form and tabernacled among us.

Feast of Tabernacles is the birth day of Yah'shua.

This question is answered when you believe and trust
the Holy Word of Elohim in Luke 1.

Yah'shua's birth on Sukkot
(Sukkot is the Feast of Tabernacles or booths,
where we live in temporary shelters.
Sukkot is when YHvH took on a temporary
garment to be with His People
and to die as the Lamb of G-d on Pesach
in order to bring salvation to all
who would call on His Name:
(Romans 10:13 & Joel 2:32)
Yah'shua ( YHvH is become my salvation)).

Ps. 18:2, 46; 27:1; 35:9; 38:22; 88:1;
118:14; 119:174; 140:7; Isa. 12:2; 56:1;
61:10; Mic. 7:7; Hab. 3:18

Sukkot as the date is supported by Elizabeth's
pregnancy of John the Immerser.
The time sequence is outlined by the
Holy Word of Elohim in Luke 1 with Zacharias.

Zacharias served as a high priest and
based on his tribe, we know when he served
(1 Chronicles 24:7-18) and when he was
struck dumb and when John was conceived.

John would have been born on Pesach.
Most Jews believed that Elijah
would come at Pesach to announce
the coming of the Messiah (Malachi 4:5).

Factor in when Miriam visited her cousin Elizabeth,
Elizabeth was six months pregnant (Luke 1:26)
Thus the timing of Yah'shua's birth can be ascertained.

John (1:14) tells us that Yah'shua was made flesh
and tabernacled among us.

The word "dwelt" in the Koine Greek is:

σκηνόω Strong's G4637 - skēnoō
1) to fix one's tabernacle,
have one's tabernacle,
abide (or live) in a tabernacle (or tent),
tabernacle
2) to dwell

Eight days after the beginning of Sukkot is
another Holy Feast Day called Shemini Atzeret.

Eight days after a Jewish male is born he is circumcised.

After the Eighth day comes the the most Joyous day:
Simchat Torah or
the rejoicing in the Torah (The Word of Elohim).

Nine months back from Sukkot is Chanukah
where the light entered the temple.

Biblical Dates for the Birth of Yochanan the Immerser
and for the Conception and Birth of Yeshua HaMashiach

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

[Petronski]

Yah'shua is a Jew so is Peter, and all of the apostles including Paul.

And since they believe Jesus is Christ, they are all Christians...Catholic Saints and fathers of the Catholic Church.

Or do you reject the clear teaching of Paul in Romans ?

Of course not. I reject your contorted, excruciatingly bizarre personal interpretation of Scripture (or, that is, your redacted version of Scripture).