Posted on 03/31/2010 3:04:35 PM PDT by TitansAFC
Ron Paul: Why didn’t the north just buy the south’s slaves and free them that way?
Getting down to the last two questions here…. Most people consider Abe Lincoln to be one of our greatest presidents, if not the greatest president we’ve ever had. Would you agree with that sentiment and why or why not?
No, I don’t think he was one of our greatest presidents. I mean, he was determined to fight a bloody civil war, which many have argued could have been avoided. For 1/100 the cost of the war, plus 600 thousand lives, enough money would have been available to buy up all the slaves and free them. So, I don’t see that is a good part of our history.....
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Abe Lincoln was a bloodthirsty war mongerer.
Bingo!
No, the Confederate States of America fought against a war because it wanted its self determination and the United States refused to allow it.
Nobody advocated a civil war. But you felt the need to take a slap at Lincoln for supporting voluntary emigration, no doubt to portray him as racist, and I was merely pointing out that Lincoln was not alone in in that field. That others advocated more extreme measures of forcibly removing freed blacks from the U.S. and moving them elsewhere, regardless of whether they wanted to go or not.
I didn’t make the reference to Lincoln’s proposed deportation to accuse him of being evil in his suggestion to rid America of its black population, but to point out the hypocrisy of Lincoln and those who claim the Civil War arose out of some noble Northern cause of freeing the slaves and making them full citizens of the United States.
Except that Lincoln never claimed that. So while you may have a valid point in criticizing those that do believe that, you should leave Lincoln out of that picture.
The Civil War was about the North asserting its power through enhancement of the Federal goverment.
The Civil War, from the Union side, was about preserving the Union, whole and undivided, as our parents and grandparents had passed it to us. That was the sole reason for pursuing that war that the confederacy had forced on the counrty. Slavery's end may have been a fortunate side-effect of that war but it was never the motivation for opposing the Southern rebellion. The only side motivated at all over slavery was the confederate.
The fact that emancipation came as a corollory benefit of the Civil War does not excuse the damage Lincoln did to America...
Exactly how did Lincoln damage America? Can you state specifics please?
...or the evils of Jim Crow, which were a direct result of the forcible end of slavery
Oh please. Similar laws and similar sentiments had been present in the South, as well as the North, long before the Southern rebellion and the end to slavery. And the idea that they were caused by losing the war, or that an independent confederacy would have ended slavery and welcomed the freed slaves as equals and bestowed upon them all the rights of a white man, is patently ridiculous.
Had they been permitted the time to make this decision themselves, the full integration of blacks into American society would have had a much smoother transition and been more broadly accepted by the South’s population.
Absolute nonsense.
Lincoln surely did. It’s why he justified trampling over the constitution in order to satisfy his craving for power.
Were the Confederate States a sovereign nation?
Lincoln was a tyrant. You might not like it. It might offend your northern propaganda inspired version of history. Doesn’t mean it isn’t true.
In the spring of 1861 Lincoln sent troops into Maryland to arrest the entire Maryland legislature so he could install his own personal legislature in its place. That is not the act of a man who respects liberty. That is the act of a tyrant.
What a cute little story.
They thought they were. Nobody else did.
The Republican Party also used to be the home of liberalism in this country while Democrats were conservatives.
Things change. Today’s GOP is not the same party that Lincoln was a part of. If it was, I and the vast majority of Southerners wouldn’t be a part of it. Southerners understand that Lincoln and Obama are two peas in a pod.
The GOP did not truly become a conservative party until after the National Dems jumped us. Then Southerners joined the GOP and made it conservative.
And completely false, too.
A false equivalence and you know it.
Although war was not waged to end slavery, it's the height of historical naivete (or revisionism) to pretend that slavery and its ramifications on the political/economic spectrum could have been replaced with 'x' and still have the Civil War be the result.
Pretty much. It’s amazing that so many Americans praise and honor a man who ordered summary executions on teenagers.
The answer to that is yes. The Confederate States declared their independence. They had a constitution. They were a sovereign nation.
I am honored to be the descendant of Confederate officers.
So if I write a constitution and declare independence am I a sovereign nation?
Oh, no ... it's a true story. The rest of the story is that Marylanders were raising unicorns and making rainbows, and the twisted Lincoln couldn't abide it.
Do you possess territory?
Do you have a military?
Do you have a currency that is recognized and measured againsts others in international commercial exchange?
And I have yet to get an answer to this question. Did the founders intend for the constitution to be a death pact or was it a voluntary association?
Lincoln lovers never want to answer that.
I see. And who said you don't learn something new every day?
From the perspective of 2010 it may be possible to say that, but not from the perspective of 1860.
All through the 1840's and 50's the southern states were making slavery more, not less, onerous. Freeing of slaves by masters was being made more and more difficult. The laws against educating slaves were ratcheted tighter. And it was made increasingly difficult for free blacks to earn a living.
Standing in 1860 I think it would be difficult or impossible to conclude that southern slavery was on the way out.
“The Civil War, from the Union side, was about preserving the Union, whole and undivided, as our parents and grandparents had passed it to us.”
No voluntary union of free states can possibly be maintained by force of arms. If it requires force, the Union is no more.
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