Birthers and Perkins V Elg

US Supreme Court Records ^ | 24 April 2010 | Self

[Mr Rogers]

So if we compare Marie with Barry, we find:

1 A - Marie had two foreign born parents, at least one of which was naturalized at her birth, but both of whom expressly rejected US citizenship.

1 B - Barry had one parent who was a citizen by birth, and a father who was not a US citizen at all.

2 A - Marie was taken to Sweden at 4 and raised as a Swede with Swedish parents.

2 B - Barry was raised primarily in the USA, by his mother and grandparents. His presumed father has no record of ever living with the mother, abandoned both (if possible) at a very early age, and only saw Barry one time. In addition, he was not a legal husband at the time, since he was already legally married to another woman.

3 A - Having spent most of her life abroad, Marie was a citizen by birth, a native citizen, and a natural born citizen. A native born citizen is presumed to be allowed to run for President.

3 B - Barry, having lived most of his life in the US and with no evidence he ever accepted any other citizenship, ran and was elected President, and certified by Congress with no dissent.

I understand birthers will continue to disagree that Barry was eligible. However, it seems clear to me that there IS a reasonable case to be made on the other side that Barry is a citizen, a native born citizen, and a natural born citizen as used by the US Supreme Court.

One doesn't remove a President from office lightly. To override the decision by the people as accepted by Congress would require an "open/shut" case - and I don't see this as "open/shut". While I think birthers have a reasonable interpretation, it doesn't seem to be well supported by the law - and certainly is not so overpowering as to justify removing Obama from office, if he was indeed born in Hawaii.

Just IMHO. Thoughts?

[Mr Rogers]

Ping

[Venturer]

I believe Obama was adopted by his Indo-Nesian stepfather and was declared to be an Indonesian when he entered school. Did he later register as an American?

[wintertime]

I would be thrilled to have a Supreme Court hearing. Whatever the verdict I would fully accept it.

It is outrageous though that common citizens are told that they have “no standing” and are frustrated by all three branches of our government from having Obama’s eligibility fully examined and resolved.

This fundamental flaw in our legislative and legal process needs to be fixed. It isn't just the natural born status of this particular president, surely other constitutional questions will arise in the future and a rational system for prompt and thorough resolution needs to be provided.

[E. Pluribus Unum]

However, it seems clear to me that there IS a reasonable case to be made on the other side that Barry is a citizen, a native born citizen, and a natural born citizen as used by the US Supreme Court.

Not if he was born in Kenya.

Only a bona fide birth certificate can tell us where he was born.

Makes you wonder why he won't produce a birth certificate.

I will bet you one thing, though. He never intended to run for a second term.

[nolongerademocrat]

Marie in your case didn’t run for President. The standards for being President of the United States are higher than the standards for being a private citizen. I don’t understand how you could compare the two cases.

[Mr Rogers]

According to this case, no actions by his parents would rob him of being a native born or natural born citizen. He would have to reject that by some act such as accepting a foreign citizenship, or living as a foreign citizen abroad.

Since he lived in the US as a citizen from the age of 10 on, he wouldn’t have any requirement to re-register as an American. His mother also seems to have retained her US citizenship throughout her life.

[Doulos1]

As of yet, we have no proof that Obama was born in the territory of the United States do we?
We have hearsay, second and third hand information
provided by very biased and agenda driven people.
Just show the Congress, and the world your birth
certificate (not COLB). I would seem very simple
don’t you think?

[Mr Rogers]

I agree. If he was born in Kenya, he should be removed from office immediately.

[Dr. Bogus Pachysandra]

“The Court makes no distinction between “native born” and “natural born citizen”.”
That’s an interesting statement.

[UCFRoadWarrior]

This is very interesting....and would take away the argument that “since Barack Obama, Sr was not a US citizen...Barack Obama, Jr is not natural born and cannot be President”

However....it still does not prove whether Barack, Jr was born in the United States....which the long form BC would prove. To be natural born, one must be born on US soil (which includes US territories)

Since Barack Obama has refused to allow his BC to be released...and has fought many challenges to it....he obviously is not born in the USA

[Mr Rogers]

Marie didn’t run for President, but the Court refers to her as a natural born citizen. It also approvingly cites a determination that a native born citizen would be eligible to run for President.

Again, I think birthers have ONE reasonable interpretation of what NBC means, but I don’t think they have the ONLY valid interpretation. I find it unlikely that the US Supreme Court will overturn previous cases and insist on removing Barry from office based on his father being a foreign citizen.

I would be satisfied if birthers would concede that they disagree with some of us on FreeRepublic, but the disagreement is not so clear cut as to call other Freepers trolls, Obamabots, paid employees of Obama, traitors, etc.

It ought to be possible to disagree without hatred.

[Mr Rogers]

I agree that Obama needs to have been born in Hawaii, and that if he had any honor at all, he would release his long certificate...preferably by asking a court to receive it, review it, and then publish it.

But he has no honor...

[wintertime]

Since Barack Obama has refused to allow his BC to be released...and has fought many challenges to it....he obviously is not born in the USA
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

An honest man would be **HONORED** to promptly prove with **all** of the best evidence that hat he was a natural born citizen.

A guilty man wastes the resources of the Department of Justice and ties up the time of U.S. attorneys to prevent discovery.

If this is an Alinsky dirty trick, please remember that Obama prevented these men and women of the Department of Justice from going after the bad guys at time when plots were being laid to blow planes out of the sky and KILL soldiers on their bases and recruitment centers. I don't think American voter will be amused.

[Jack Black]

I understand birthers will continue to disagree that Barry was eligible. However, it seems clear to me that there IS a reasonable case to be made on the other side that

Barry is a citizen,

• Lets see the original long form birth certificate!

a native born citizen,

• We know he wasn't naturalized. If he wasn't born in the USA (Hawaii) he would have had to have acquired citizenship via his mother when born overseas. As the law was written at the time, from what I've seen, he would not have. Therefore your points one and two are related. If he wasn't born here, he is probably not a citizen at all, but a long-standing illegal alien who should be deported.

and a natural born citizen as used by the US Supreme Court.

• The usage that is key is that in the US Constitution. It would have to be interpretted by the court. Four of them would go back and find out what the term meant at the time. Four of them would decide what they want it to mean based on the political imperative of keeping Odumbo in office. So, it would be a close call either way.

  Because the issue in the above case was merely the citizenship of the lady, and not whether she was a "natural born citizen" I don't see that it applies - except for being a very clear precident that the "Indonesian Appeal" facet of birtherism may not have much merit.

[nolongerademocrat]

I haven’t called anyone a troll. Besides, I believe Obama was born in the U.S., I also believe that he is the son of Malcolm X. Clarence Thomas has already said that SCOTUS is evading the NBC issue. I do not expect Obama to be removed from office related to his birth certificate. I think it is much more likely that he would be removed for bribery, fraud, credit-card fraud, mail-fraud, identity theft, falsifying government documents, misappropriation of government funds, real estate fraud, abuse of office, and treason. If they decide to throw the birth certificate thingy in there - it is all just gravy.

[UCFRoadWarrior]

Marie didn’t run for President, but the Court refers to her as a natural born citizen. It also approvingly cites a determination that a native born citizen would be eligible to run for President.

Again, I think birthers have ONE reasonable interpretation of what NBC means, but I don’t think they have the ONLY valid interpretation. I find it unlikely that the US Supreme Court will overturn previous cases and insist on removing Barry from office based on his father being a foreign citizen.

I would be satisfied if birthers would concede that they disagree with some of us on FreeRepublic, but the disagreement is not so clear cut as to call other Freepers trolls, Obamabots, paid employees of Obama, traitors, etc.

It ought to be possible to disagree without hatred.

---

Good point.

A lot of the Birthers (me included) are so tired of the MSM spin (inclduing MSFoxNews)....they just ridicule Birthers, and do not rationally discuss the issue. This is even a problem with people like Glenn Beck, Ann Coutler, Andrew Breitbart, and some others on the conservative end who are Enabling Obama with their MSM adopted spin

The most important thing with the entire BC issue is that, if proven that Obama is not born in the US, he would not get on the ballots for 2012. There would be so many challenges, and a few states passing laws, that the Democrats could not win the White House with Obama on the ticket.

[Jack Black]

I’ve had long arguments on this topic with other Freepers and didn’t see anyone called a traitor. Yes the Obama birth controversy is an emotional one. So I suppose some get carried away.

I very much appreciate your posting!

I used to be very sceptical over the “Obama is not a citizen” argument, but as I’ve learned more and watched him fillibuster the issue (which could be solved easily with a release of documents) ... well I’m not so sceptical anymore.

[Uncle Chip]

<>Please note that the Court rejects the idea that she lost her “native born American citizen” and had instead remained a “natural born citizen”. <>

Right — because she was born on American soil of two naturalized American citizens — a decision fully consistent with the traditional historical definition of “natural born citizen” as the following link shows:

http://www.thepostemail.com/2009/10/18/4-supreme-court-cases-define-natural-born-citizen/

[BuckeyeTexan]

No, Obama’s NBC status is definitely not an open and shut case. There is significant evidence on both sides of the argument. But whether or not a SCOTUS ruling would overturn the will of the people, this issue, IMHO, should be decided to firmly establish the law and set legal precedent. I don’t believe it is an absolute that Obama would have won the election had the question of his NBC status been widely known. So one could argue that the will of the people was preempted and thwarted.

Regarding Elg’s mother’s citizenship status, I believe she was automatically naturalized when her husband became so. I’ll try to find the relevant law and post it here. If I am correct, Elg would be a NBC as stipulated.