Posted on 08/03/2010 10:55:02 AM PDT by inflorida
If you deny miracles or if you deny that the scriptures accurately recorded the healing by faith, then there is really no discussion here.
If you maintain that the scriptures are accurate, and if you believe that God does not ordain faith healing, you are maintaining a position of cognitive dissonance.
Further, your assertion that ... that “IF” and that is a big “IF” they were truly ordained by God to perform the miracle of healing, they would never fail in their efforts. is a false strawman. The faith necessary for the healing did not come from Jesus or the Apostles, it came from the person needing to be healed. (See Mark 5)
24 A large crowd followed and pressed around him. 25And a woman was there who had been subject to bleeding for twelve years. 26She had suffered a great deal under the care of many doctors and had spent all she had, yet instead of getting better she grew worse. 27When she heard about Jesus, she came up behind him in the crowd and touched his cloak, 28because she thought, "If I just touch his clothes, I will be healed." 29Immediately her bleeding stopped and she felt in her body that she was freed from her suffering.
30At once Jesus realized that power had gone out from him. He turned around in the crowd and asked, "Who touched my clothes?"
31"You see the people crowding against you," his disciples answered, "and yet you can ask, 'Who touched me?' "
32But Jesus kept looking around to see who had done it. 33Then the woman, knowing what had happened to her, came and fell at his feet and, trembling with fear, told him the whole truth. 34He said to her, "Daughter, your faith has healed you. Go in peace and be freed from your suffering."
Lets look at verse 34 ..."YOUR faith has healed you."
Therefor it is quite possible for someone to deny in their heart that they would receive healing and thus prevent the blessing. Despite how hard the elder or healer prays it will be of no avail because the receiver of the blessing denies the blessing through their lack of faith. Even modern medicine proves out the power of faith and belief through documentation of the placebo effect.
the point is Jesus and the Apostles never failed in their miracles and they were specific and whole in their works.
Whoever this person is, he is holding himself out to be a prophet of healing and since he does not have 100% success and can repeat it over and over, then he is a charlatan and may be leading this young woman to her death.
Back when I was a physical therapist I worked with handicapped kids, mostly cerebral palsy, a few spina bifida, and a few with neurodegenerative disease. One of the saddest things in the world is hearing a child’s faith dashed by well-meaning parents who have taken him to a faith healer.
Naturally, it never changed the underlying condition and the child continued to have severe gait problems or difficulty even sitting up or holding their head erect. The child is then told their faith must not be strong enough or the Lord would have healed them.
And I have seen the opposite where a person who had spent the past 12 month going to and from doctor’s and specialists and chemo and radiation and who knows what else only to have the medical profession throw up their hands and say that the cancer was inoperable. Out of desperation, the individual asked the elders to pray a prayer of healing, anoint them with oil and ask for a blessing from God.
After the elders did so, the next exam showed the tumor to have reduced by 50% and was totally gone in 4 days. The doctors had no explanation on how this could have happened.
Medicine has it’s place - it is a gift from God. But so does faith healing - it is also a gift from God.
In light of several of the comments made here, I think the following responses are warranted...
(1) It still amazes me that people — even Conservatives — are willing to take reports in the MSM at face value. This “news story” was quite probably written to portray Christians in the worst possible light, while portraying the Muslim parents of Miss Barry in a sympathetic light. Don’t be quite so gullible...
(2) Miss Barry has been treated with surgery for her cancer, and has apparently decided not to have follow-up with chemo-therapy. Since WE don’t know whether there are signs of metastasis, we don’t know if that was wise or not. The indication is that there was no spread, so she decided against chemo. If you’d ever have been through chemo, or seen someone go through it, you might understand.
(3) Miss Barry’s treatment may have been guided by the Christians who are in charge of her foster care, or they may be her decisions alone. They appear to be in conflict with her Muslim parents desires according to the media. Is this a real conflict, or one conjured up for the media and the courts?
(4) As to the theological suppositions regarding Christians and healing — some have speculated that those Christians who believe that “if you believe you can be medically healed according the the scripture ‘by his striped we are healed’” are silly. But look at it another way — can we as followers of Christ receive ANYTHING except through the ATONEMENT of Christ? NO. One more Question — Does Jesus still heal today? (I’m NOT speaking of “faith-healers,” the Benny Hinn’s of the world, but in general...?) Biblically, my understanding of scripture says emphatically, YES. So, believing in healing theologically is not the issue, in my view...
(5) Practically, should Miss Barry RELY SOLELY on “faith healing” to cure her cancer? Well, she didn’t, since she had surgery. If she still has signs and symptoms of cancer, and she is being advised to seek further treatment by medical professionals, but her “Christian” gaurdians or advisers are advising her not to seek treatment but merely to trust God despite the signs of problems, then the gaurdians are being negligent.
(6) The above points, however, are moot as of next Tuesday, because Miss Barry will be 18 on that day. She has the Liberty (as of now anyway) NOT to be treated for anything. It is indeed her l ife.
(7) No religion should “condemn” this young woman to death by “prohibiting” medical treatment. Nor should a religion — nor a government COMPEL someone to seek treatment that they do not want and that might not help. For an ADULT, this is a personal decision. For a child, this is a complex decisison that needs to be decided by the family itself... Should the Government step in and “save” a young person should the family decide the child should not have Chemo? Wow — that’s an argument I’m not comforrtable making — and one I’m NOT saying I wouldn’t make.
I’m just glad I don’t have to!
Yeah, and how is to with the shame imposed by others for their failure?
Can’t believe some of the other posters here.
I wonder...
What will they say if the cancer overtakes her and she dies?
Her faith wasn’t strong enough?
Sadly, I will wish that she had availed herself of medical help.
good post
There are no good choices for therapies and everyone of them found the cure worse than the pain.
My dear wife went through chemotherapy and radiation for treatment of mediastinal lymphoma. Yes it was tough, but it was bearable, and we thank God for the medications and treatments that saved her life. She achieved complete remission and has been cancer free for over three years.
Your statement "there are no good choices for therapies" is incorrect IMO.
Actually, there is a specific instance in the Bible where the Apostles DID fail, though it was in the aspect of casting out of demons.
God watch over her. She has such different extreme challenges in her life at the same time and with those challenges complicating each other as well. Give her strength to “walk through the valley of the shadow of death”; knowing His peace is with her.
What I meant by the comment is there are no painless choices. It sucks to watch a friend or even a loved one go through cancer.
My Mom had Kidney cancer last year and thankfully God was smart enough to give her two, she now has one.
She too has gone through therapies, though I do not know which. Wasn’t a breeze though we all prayed and she steeled herself for it.
She expected the worst and while it was bad, it wasn’t as bad as she had expected.
We live in different states and my sister, who is a CNA, did most of the helping.
So far, so good.
The one instance that comes to mind is in the Book of Mathew 17.
The disciples had a failure of strength of belief and while Jesus was able to cast out the demon they were unable to as their faith, at that time, didn’t compare even to a mustard seed.
Christ implored them to strengthen their faith and they never failed again.
Quite different from the charlatans of today fail over and over again.
The Benny Hinns of the world are midway carnies.
I WROTE that she should be checked out medically to see if she’s healed. Again, what part of that did you miss?!
Of course God still heals. I feel sorry for people who don’t believe that. They make God so small.
I got it, really.
I was confused by your shout out to taxcontrol with a hearty “Amen!” and his error in interpreting scripture.
She might well find her life shortened. Or not. Chemo doesn’t necessarily enhance a life, really, does it? Nor does Benny Hinn, haha.
Gatterdam also took exception to Rifqa's parents' attorney's claim that she went to a faith-healing event in Youngstown and then quit chemotherapy. He said the girl went to a "prayer conference" shortly after her diagnosis and then had "multiple surgeries and chemotherapy." He said the treatments made her very weak and sick.
If this is a sane world at all, she’ll be free from legal interference in a couple of weeks. The court will have nothing more to say to her or about her. Her parents will find it hard to get the court clerk on the phone. They’ll have “it’s out of our hands” coming out of their ears.
And we will, if Rifqa wishes, hear HER side of it all at last.
Continue to pray for her.
Meanwhile...Rifqa, praise the Lord and pass the chemotherapy! Remember that joke about the fellow who prayed for a lottery win and God finally explained to him, “You have to buy the ticket.” It could be that the healing will miraculously occur during chemo. Buy that ticket, Rifqa. Long life to you.
I guess it’s the old ‘crazy, faith-healing believing Christian’ spin the MSM likes to put on everything.
There is a special place in Hell reserved for these charlatans.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.