Posted on 10/03/2010 9:12:54 AM PDT by kristinn
ABC News' Christiane Amanpour has done a great service today with her panel discussion on whether America should fear Islam.
Thanks to guests Franklin Graham, Robert Spencer and Peter Gadiel refusing to submit to Allah and political correctness, and the brashness of Anjem Choudary, Americans watching broadcast television have learned more about Islam in the hour long show than many have in the nine years since 9/11.
Franklin Graham was unapologetic in his stance on Islam, however he differentiated between Islam the religion and Muslim people. Gary Bauer and Ayaan Hirsi Ali also deserve credit for speaking truth to Islam on the broadcast.
AMANPOUR: I would like to go to Reza Aslan, who is joining us from Amsterdam, and who is a scholar on these matters. Reza, you have heard just right now several points raised. One is that Muslims in this country are trying to bring Sharia law. Is there a shred of evidence for that?
REZA ASLAN, WRITER, "THE DAILY BEAST"/author: No, not a single shred whatsoever. I think somebody needs to remind Franklin Graham that we don't judge our values in the United States by comparing them to what the Saudis do. This is a common refrain that you hear from a lot of anti-Muslim activists in the United States, including Robert Spencer, that, well, if, in Saudi Arabia, you can't have a church, then, therefore, in the United States, you shouldn't be allowed to have mosques. This is an appalling and laughable argument.
GRAHAM: You know we can have an argument -- but I'm not here to argue. As a Christian, I believe that Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the life and that no man comes to the father in heaven except through him. I don't believe in Islam. I don't believe a word of it. I do respect their right to -- to believe whatever they want to believe. My opinions are not based on hearsay. My opinions are based on 50 years of working in Middle Eastern countries. I'm 58. I was -- eight years old when I made my first trip to Egypt. And I've been to Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Sudan, Somalia. I've worked in these countries. But I disagree, Christiane, with -- with the Sharia law, because they do stone women. They do imprison -- I -- I've worked in the Sudan, where they've burned over a thousand churches -- a thousand.
... GRAHAM: When we talk about -- there are millions of Muslims in this world that are wonderful people, who don't beat their wives, who don't practice honor killings--
AMANPOUR: Why do you call it a wicked religion, an evil religion?
GRAHAM: I think to -- to take your daughter, because you think that -- and the religion gives you the authority -- Sharia gives you the authority for honor killing. And we saw the young girl in Ohio just a few--
....
KHAN: Well, this -- this particular center will create a counter-momentum against extremism, because it will amplify the voices of moderate Muslims, which have gotten drowned out over the years by the extremists, because the extremists did not only hijack the planes, they hijacked an entire religion.
AMANPOUR: Let me just say stop you there for a second, because this side is obviously the side that says one shouldn't fear and that there are moderates and the whole religion should not be painted with the same brush. I want to, though, now go to Anjem Choudary in London. You have said that you think there should be Islamic domination. Why shouldn't people be afraid of that?
CHOUDARY: Well -- well, let me just say that Islam has a solution for all of the problems that mankind faces. If you want to live at peace with Muslims, we are quite willing to live at peace with you. But let us remember that history did not begin on 9/11. Before 9/11, the Americans -- the American government bombed Sudan and Afghanistan. They were supporting the pirate state of Israel. So 9/11 was a reaction. You know, I think that we need to get away from the stereotyping. And this idea that you have moderate Muslims and you have radical Muslims, you know, it's complete nonsense. A Muslim is the one who submits to the command of the creator. If he submits, he is a practicing Muslim. If he is not, then he should be practicing.
DAISY KHAN: I have to disagree with him, because Islam is a religion of pluralism that embraces all religions and it also embraces different interpretations. This is why we have so many schools of thought. What Anjem is talking about is an exclusivist view of Islam, which is my way or the highway. And my interpretation is the only interpretation--
CHOUDARY: It's very easy for people to justify the fact that they're not practicing. I mean, this lady in your studio, she should be covering with the hijab. She's obviously not practicing --
(CROSSTALK)
CHOUDARY: There are many people who are justifying -- there are many people who are justifying the inability to practice the Sharia, to say, "Well, I have a different form of religion." You know, people want to claim that they're vegetarians and they're eating big beef burgers. You can not be a non-practicing vegetarian. Therefore, similarly, if you're a Muslim, you submit to the Sharia.
FRANKLIN GRAHAM: He's telling the truth.
AMANPOUR: You see, Reverend Graham says you're telling the truth. So, do you agree with Reverend Graham and our panelists on this side that Americans should fear Islam?
CHOUDARY: we do believe, as Muslims, the East and the West will one day be governed by the Sharia. Indeed, we believe that one day, the flag of Islam will fly over the White House. Indeed, there's even an oration of the Prophet where he said, "The day of judgment will not come until a group of my oma... -- "
DONNA MARSH O'CONNOR: Can I just -- ?
CHOUDARY: "Conquer the White House."
...
AMANPOUR But is it a question now of, basically, tarring or conflating, confusing everyone, 1.57 billion Muslims around the world, with that minority group who would do harm and who would cause violence?
GADIEL: I do not say that Islam is evil. I say there is a lot of evil connected with it. That is a problem for Muslims themselves. They have to cure the problem. We're supposed to believe Ms. Khan here, that she can cure the problems of Islam at the fringes. The problem goes to the core, and that is the countries -- you cannot ignore Saudi Arabia and Iran, and the other countries that, undoubtedly do oppress people of a different religion --
AMANPOUR: But we're talking about -- we're talking about America here.
GADIEL: We're talking about right now a very small number of people in this country. And what we are afraid of, is that as the number grows, the violence will grow, as we have seen in Holland, and as we see in Germany, and as we see in England. Do we have a reason to be afraid of Muslims right now? No, the number's not very great. But your mosques, moderate, wherever they are, have been infiltrated and have a history of being infiltrated by radicals. And you can't deny it. And you may, for all I know, not be a moderate you pretend to be, because you may be engaging in takia and be engaging in lying for the purpose of furthering your religion.
(LAUGHTER)
...
ASLAN: Well, it comes from the - an organization, a neo - not - what the E.U. refers to as the neo-Nazi organization called Stop Islamization of Europe. And that kind of institutionalized Islamophobia is precisely what your organization, Stop Islamization of America, is importing into the United States. And honestly, you're on the wrong side of history. And very soon, in a couple of decades, you will be sweeped and your ideas will be sweeped into the garbage bin of history, along with the anti-Semites of the 20th century and the anti-Catholics of the 19th century.
(APPLAUSE)
SPENCER: Here again, Reza Aslan is displacing responsibility and trying to act as if this is something that I am doing that is illegitimate, or something that I have created. When actually, you look at the writings of 20th century -- muslim brotherhood theorists like and people like Madudi in Pakistan, the founder of Jamaat-e-Islami -- he says, "Non Muslims have absolutely no right to wield the reins of power in any part of God's earth. And, if they do, it is the believer's responsibility to dislodge them from that power by any means possible."
Christian Amanpour gave everybody room to talk. The Muslims on the panel tried but failed to dispel the truths spoken by those opposed to Islam spreading in America.
If Amanpour was hoping for a kumbaya moment, she didn't get one.
Facing reality is not something they are good at. It’s something they actively resist.
It seems that Muslims like the one in Florida are considered not practicing, and are very brave to openly go against people like Choudary. I'd like to see more of them.
Islam is evil.
It is not a religion, but an oppressive, totalitarian form of government. Its goal is to overtake the world. If Muslims do not adhere to all of its tenets, they will be killed or at the very least have essential body parts "removed without anesthesia".
Bush is not the only one who called it a "religion of peace" but he is even more dreadfully wrong for making that statement not long after the most horrific attack by Islamic terrorists on American soil. By misleading Americans back then, he opened the door for the snake to enter, putting our liberty, and justice, our entire way of life, in danger.
Exactly!
Moderate muslims are like the shell of the trojan horse. Radical/conquistador muslims are the guts of the trojan horse and inside the shell. Which side at the time was benefitted by the shell? The USA as a Christian founded Nation must take the advice of Founders who were concerned with keeping the Republic.
If you’d like to be on or off, please FR mail me.
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“moderate Islam” is just a smokescreen for real ease-lom.
Yep, that's what I was going to say.
That’s what I said.
This gets to the nub of it: Where in all of the house of Islam (those places or nations that are Islamic) is there ANY manifestation of the influence of any other than granite-faced slitty-eyed Imams? I can see no manifestation of a “moderate” Islam anywhere Islam is king. Nowhere.
Do not be fooled by some guy who let some Christians use his property in America. Would he do the same if sharia were the law? I'd bet my life he wouldn't.
A reference above by someone else alluding to a (presumably) American Muslim letting Christians use his property for some Christian purpose (and thus showing moderation and reasonableness).
Well, this is news cause’ I thought Islam was already in the White House ...
thanks kristinn for the topic and [nick omitted] for the link in FReepmail!
Is this it?...
Amen.
bttt
You apparently did not understand or read what I said RIGHT AFTER you quoted me: I insisted we not allow Islam to do what you describe.
I guess we’ve run this conversation about as far as it can go; thanks to everyone for the input.
DAISY KHAN: I have to disagree with him, because Islam is a religion of pluralism that embraces all religions...
That’s as far as I got. She is a liar, just like most muslims. Islam is a lie and islam condones lying.
As far as “conquering the White House”, well, I guess they already have.
The day the White House is turned into a mosque is the day the White House is burned. Simple as that. God help us if American’s don’t see the light.
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