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Middle class downsizes as good jobs vanish
The Miami Herald ^ | November 11, 2010 | Kevin G. Hall

Posted on 11/11/2010 9:33:02 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet

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To: mylife
Oops, I meant a ball point pen, not pin.
181 posted on 11/12/2010 5:52:27 PM PST by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Lt. Col. Ralph Peters: Obama is the dog who caught the fire truck!)
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To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas

I know what you meant.


182 posted on 11/12/2010 5:54:01 PM PST by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas

That’s a great story.

I love that sort of thinking.


183 posted on 11/12/2010 5:56:16 PM PST by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: Gondring; TopQuark

You’ve been such a cheerleader, I wonder.

What is your salary and how much have you been involved in job outsourcing.

I’d appreciate your salaries. Without that frame of reference it’s impossible to really decide your stake in this.


184 posted on 11/12/2010 8:13:16 PM PST by Tolsti2
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To: Talf
Do you live in these United States and on this planet Earth? Your perception of reality is devoid of any facts.

Conspiracy theorists are lazy thinkers. One can explain that objects fall to the ground because the Fed conspires them to do so. Beats studying physics --- beats, in fact, even getting out of a favorite chair. Cheap way to feel empowered without having any power whatever.

185 posted on 11/12/2010 9:57:46 PM PST by TopQuark
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To: Tolsti2; TopQuark

Actually, something comes up before that.

The 20th Century so clearly revealed the foolishness of trying to impose one’s will via ignoring the market or trying to subvert it. This leads me to wonder why you want American businesses to fail so badly.

What benefit do you gain by making American businesses uncompetitive? Are you looking to buy their secrets for a pittance to spread to foreign buyers, or do you just hope to knock the US down further, cutting the number of jobs and making the American worker even more desperate before foreign entities (that remained competitive, and thus extant) can swoop in and scoop up the remnants?

That is far more important than the fact that I conciously accepted a far lower salary than I could have gotten—while it lasted—in another field. I will be working in Mexico soon, based on my competency and value, despite a client originally wanting to go locally there...does that anger you, that I have chosen to remain employed by making myself a good value (rather than just demanding higher pay and then whining about not having a job when the work goes to a local Mexican firm)?

You can keep covering for your beloved unions and anti-American Administration, but you can ignore reality for only so long. You’re ready for your close-up, I think.


186 posted on 11/12/2010 10:23:18 PM PST by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: bill1952

I assure you, I am far to the right of anyone in the last five generations of your family; don’t lie about how we came to our current situation. Me & mine breed as though “The Road Warrior” is three months away; we don’t drink Kool-Aid (unless it comes from the MRE pack). I have voted in every election since I was old enough (for George Bush in 1992), and in the end what did we get? Thankfully I never took a student loan, because any graduate that asks for more than a bowl of noodles at the end of the day is apparently being snotty to you (and has had his job sent to India/China already).

Hope that me & mine see any point to you & yours at the end of the day; otherwise, find your own gasoline (but watch out for the Toe-Cutter).


187 posted on 11/12/2010 10:59:05 PM PST by kearnyirish2
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To: Gondring

Wait, who are you talking about that’s pro-union?

Who the hell are you people? What in the holy name of anything are you talking about???


188 posted on 11/12/2010 11:32:34 PM PST by Tolsti2
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To: Tolsti2; TopQuark
Wait, who are you talking about that’s pro-union?

Not pro-union? So praytell what you have against American companies and workers that makes you criticize my desire for their longterm success?

What in the holy name of anything are you talking about???

A return to sanity, where we realize that America must be competitive in the global market, because the global market will exist whether we want to participate or not. The alternative is decline or magic incantations to unearned prosperity. Hint: the latter don't work indefinitely.

189 posted on 11/13/2010 2:20:03 AM PST by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: Gondring

You are certainly the type that sits in office and direct jobs to go abroad.

Will you say your hourly+benefits on here?

You must, and you must say in American $ why that is a valuable commodity.

What do you make $+benefits.


190 posted on 11/13/2010 2:25:36 AM PST by Tolsti2
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To: Tolsti2
You are certainly the type that sits in office and direct jobs to go abroad.

BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA!

Want to head down to Mexico and work with me? Oh, wait...you can't. You're not qualified.

Will you say your hourly+benefits on here?

Why the heck would I do that, straw man?

191 posted on 11/13/2010 3:02:59 AM PST by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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To: Gondring; driftdiver
A return to sanity, where we realize that America must be competitive in the global market, because the global market will exist whether we want to participate or not. The alternative is decline or magic incantations to unearned prosperity. Hint: the latter don't work indefinitely.

Everyone realizes we are in a global market and it is here to stay...and it is a good thing.

What most of us our upset with is many countries unfairly hamper the US in trade whether it's restricting our goods, placing tariffs, manipulating their currency (China) or subsidizing their goods via their own gov't. And what really frost us is our politicians and Ceo's don't seem to care.

The blue collar workers were hit first and now the white collar workers are going to get their ox gored as China and India compete with those jobs as well.

The backlash against this unfair trade is growing..the Tea Party is on the roll. Wait until 2012 when the rest of the libs and rino's get kicked out.

192 posted on 11/13/2010 7:35:55 AM PST by hoyt-clagwell
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To: Gondring

I feel sorry for you having to head to mexico for a job. Sucks, watch your head.


193 posted on 11/13/2010 10:30:37 AM PST by Tolsti2
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To: driftdiver
Wages are only a component of higher operating costs in the US. Massive regulations is a more significant portion.

Agreed. That's what I indicated.

Taxes and regulations are some of those, but also note that some of those regulations are in place supposedly for worker benefit. And if workers want the benefit of not working in rotten conditions, they have to recognize that there's a cost to that. That higher labor cost has to be made up somewhere, in order to remain at the same competitive level. Where? Wages.

Note that my model even assumes best-case of getting rid of all the other regulations we have that exceed our competition.

I.e., if the cost of doing business must remain at the market level to compete, the costs of wages must go down if the non-wages go up. Simple math.

Blaming workers for accepting high wages is silly. Blame the employers for offering them.

There's no "blame" anywhere.

If any blame exists, it's on a culture (societal, business, regulatory) that makes it more difficult to lower wages to market values than to just cut workforce--though some trimming of workforce is often positive for "getting rid of deadweight," too much is cutting into meat.

I suggest you review Shift Happens (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdTOFkhaplo). Conservatives have to come to terms with changes, being conservative in our ideals but not attempt to go head-to-head with reality.

194 posted on 11/15/2010 6:28:53 PM PST by Gondring (Paul Revere would have been flamed as a naysayer troll and told to go back to Boston.)
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