TSA Ejects Oceanside Man from Airport for Refusing Security Check (No Touchy My Genitals)

Sign On San Diego ^ | 11/14/2010 | Sign On San Diego

[Dallas59]

SAN DIEGO — John Tyner won't be pheasant hunting in South Dakota with his father-in-law any time soon.

Tyner was simultaneously thrown out of San Diego International Airport on Saturday morning for refusing to submit to a security check and threatened with a civil suit and $10,000 fine if he left.

And he got the whole thing on his cell phone. Well, the audio at least.

The 31-year-old Oceanside software programmer was supposed to leave from Lindbergh Field on Saturday morning and until a TSA agent directed him toward one of the recently installed full-body scanners, Tyner seemed to be on his way.

[laxcoach]

When you CHOOSE to use that mode of travel. You can drive or take a train (for the moment) and never be strip searched.

So the government can make laws saying if you engage in any random activity, you are waiving constitutional rights?

Is there a limit to this? Say, for example, that they make a law that says if you choose to drive a car, you are subject to search without cause. They could claim that any car is a terrorist threat and can blow up bridges/tunnels.

Would that be a constitutional law? I ask because it seems to me there are plenty of illegal search and seizure cases centered on vehicles.

My point is that there are plenty of activities I "choose" to engage in. It doesn't mean the government has the ability to legislate that I am waiving constitutional rights when I engage in them.

I've read that there is case law that says "reasonable administrative searches" in airports have been upheld. The question becomes what is reasonable. Where do we draw the line? When the devices exist, will we have standing, rapid MRIs? Furthermore, if specific people are waived from these searches, where is equal protection under the law?

[ex 98C MI Dude]

Since travel is not one of the powers given to the Federal government, and since a state cannot itself travel, then travel is one of those rights reserved for the people.

You are under the sad impression that the Bill of Rights is an enumeration of rights. Read the Founders thoughts on the matter. Some didn't want the BoR exactly for that reason; people would think of them as just that, a complete list of rights. So the 10th was put in there as a catch-all. If it isn't a Fed power, or something a state can do, then it is reserved for the people.

[Buddy B]

Meg McLain Singled out by the TSA, Cuffed to a Chair, Her Ticket Ripped up
YouTube.....

[CAluvdubya]

Paranoids:

1. truthers
2. robo-signer phobiacs.
3. contrail exaggerators
4. airport security rebels

Drunks:

1. qwertypie

[bvw]

You just claimed that the sensors somehow measure REM. Are they genetically engineered to contain a micro-human? Or is is more likely that the sensors measure RAD and calibrate it into someone’s MODEL of what damage is done by the sub-spectrum and type of radiation measured for that level of RAD?

[Yaelle]

Thank you; you are doing a better job of this than I am. I needed a legal beagle to try and explain how, indeed, this depth of personal searching IS unreasonable under our Constitution. I am not being like an emotion-driven liberal at all, as he accused. This is truly too far to go for security, especially when it doesn’t even work (to stop air terror).

[skyman]

I’m amazed at so many on FR are attacking this guy and seem perfectly willing to go through naked scanners, be treated like a criminal and have their wives and children groped in order to fly.

[DBrow]

I’m going to assume you know what the units are, so we’re on the same page.

From a post of mine on another thread:
..................................

You can get as much as 660 micro-REMS per hour in flight, with 250 micro REMS per hour being a low average. That’s at least ten times ground level background.

If the xray scanners are harmful with their less-than-a-second less than 25 microrem scan, airline flight is many many times more dangerous.

http://www.hps.org/publicinformation/ate/faqs/commercialflights.html

Plus, lots of airline radiation is heavy particles and neutrons, not just low energy x-rays.
...........................................

So air flight gives you at least 200 uREM/hour. This memo:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/microsites/ostp/fda-backscatter-response.pdf

says that the scanners are limited by law to 25 uREM per scan, and you’ll find actual measurements in the 5 uREM to 9 uREM from AS&E.

So you get more dose in flight. Plus, the in-flight dose is made up of higher energy photons mixed with particles from cosmic rays, and a bunch of really hot neutrons. Looking at the numbers, you can get more dose in an hour on a plane than you get from a scanner.

[bvw]

I don’t even like the metal detectors at the courthouse. It is an intrusion into my personal affairs and a limitation on my right to carry tools and even weapons. Weapons carried by normal citizens do not make a courthouse less safe — they make it safer and the whole community too. When a citizen feels he can defend his own safety that is a better citizen and the whole community is better.

[Yaelle]

Very well said.

I do not know if the grounds of an airport are private property or public. I suppose if they are private, they could “refuse service” to anyone who didn’t submit to whatever hoops they wanted you to jump through, but I believe these searches are put into law from the public sector (Homeland Security).

I hope in Bush’s book it tells of him at the very least losing some sleep over the decision to create this agency and its priority of safety over freedom.

[freedumb2003]

>>Since travel is not one of the powers given to the Federal government, and since a state cannot itself travel, then travel is one of those rights reserved for the people.

You are under the sad impression that the Bill of Rights is an enumeration of rights. Read the Founders thoughts on the matter. Some didn’t want the BoR exactly for that reason; people would think of them as just that, a complete list of rights. So the 10th was put in there as a catch-all. If it isn’t a Fed power, or something a state can do, then it is reserved for the people.<<

There is no bigger supporter of the (almost dead) 9th and 10th Amendments than I. Almost everything the TOTUS-readers’s reichstag has implemented has been in violation of these — because they are NOT optional.

You have one basic flaw: Airlines are private enterprises and subject to regulation, both Federal and State (although States seem to be OK with the feds doing the heavy lifting).

It is as simple as that. You can’t say a private conveyance, nor its associated regulation milieu, is a Right.

[Yaelle]

That is the sad part about mass media and mob rule. People CAN respond like sheep. However, I am used to Americans being the LEAST SHEEPLIKE people on the planet. It’s something we are known for overseas. We are the last best hope of this world to stand up against tyranny.

[isthisnickcool]

All we need is 24-25 million strips of fresh, crisp, hot, tasty bacon.

[DBrow]

When dealing with personnel dose, yes, you apply factors to the reading you get from the machines. Actually, most Geigers and ion chambers are set up for Roentgen units, since the absorbing material of the target is not generally known.

This has been the way you do human dose for a while now, whether by pen dosimeter (tiny ion chamber), GM tube, or TLD, or the new Alumina matrix that is in the badges.

The spectrum from the backscatter scanners is known, as is the in-flight spectrum (sort of, it depents on latitude, altitude, and solar flare conditions).

I’ve picked up flight radiation when carrying TLDs to a site, and it shows on my badge, if it’s a long flight.

[Rodamala]

Vegas TSA stole $700 cash out of my carry-on luggage when they did their “extra check” after the x-ray machine showed them exactly where my cash was (coins are pretty obvious on the x-ray and where there are coins, there be gambling winnings in the form of large bills). They didn’t offer to have me observe the search... I now refuse to fly.

[Yaelle]

I do agree with you there, but I understand that there may be buildings or locations where going through a metal detector is reasonable. To a President’s speech, to the courthouse where emotional upheavals take place daily, to the airport, Disneyland, etc.

[backwoods-engineer]

Nice to see you post, MB. Dying to get my hands on Castigo Cay ;-)

[DBrow]

“You just claimed that the sensors somehow measure REM.”

Actually, the question was whether I knew what the acronym meant, not what the sensor measures.

[freedumb2003]

>>Is there a limit to this? Say, for example, that they make a law that says if you choose to drive a car, you are subject to search without cause. They could claim that any car is a terrorist threat and can blow up bridges/tunnels.<<

Try telling a cop he can’t search your car when you are pulled over.

>>Would that be a constitutional law? I ask because it seems to me there are plenty of illegal search and seizure cases centered on vehicles.<<

Probably.

>>My point is that there are plenty of activities I “choose” to engage in. It doesn’t mean the government has the ability to legislate that I am waiving constitutional rights when I engage in them.<<

The have the right to regulate almost any private enterprise. And the airlines are private enterprises. You can “choose” to start a mail-order frozen food service, but you do so subject to Federal and State Regulation.

>>I’ve read that there is case law that says “reasonable administrative searches” in airports have been upheld. The question becomes what is reasonable. Where do we draw the line? When the devices exist, will we have standing, rapid MRIs? Furthermore, if specific people are waived from these searches, where is equal protection under the law? <<

In the very latter example, I am 100% in agreement. As I have said in at least on of these threads, I plan on demanding I get the same treatment as a female muslim woman in a burka. THAT applies across the board — equal treatment for all.

As for the former, I suppose that as long as you can opt out, that is the Government escape valve. Regulatory Convenience is not guaranteed by any legal, much less Constitutional, standard.

I plan on testing that this week.

[cherry]

so you’re old and enjoy having your parts groped by complete strangers with foreign accents?......go for it....of course there’s a name for that...